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Old
12-10-2012, 06:30 PM
  #651
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
And I think keeping Luongo after he asked to be traded would be terrible morale for both goalies and will probably leak out to everyone in the dressing room. Not only that, but over 9M committed to two goalies isn't smart....cap wise.
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
Didn't Luongo ask for a trade when the season was over? And with that contract being so long I don't see how Gillis is in a position to have any leverage.

All this "do you want Luongo or not" talk is pure garbage. Yeah, I'd love to have Luongo on Toronto, just as much as you guys would/need to trade him. Luongo requested a trade. The last couple of stars I know that requested trades didn't go down to well. Heatley, Pronger come to mind.

And just so we are clear. Kulemin is not getting traded. And whoever compares him to Higgins and/or Raymond is crazy. Kulemin could play on the first line on 90% of the teams in the NHL. Not because of his skill, but because he is such a smart, and complete player. Last year was a blessing in disguise. Terrible stats = below market value contract.

There is absolutely no way a first is being mentioned in this trade. Get over it.

Kadri/Bozak speculates as the center piece. Maybe a defensive prospect also (Not Gardiner, Reilly), and a 2nd round pick.

I know this will sound like a terrible offer to most, if not all, Canuck fans on here. But with Luongo's long term contract, and him requesting a trade, and no other team looking for a goalie....Gillis has his hands tied
this guy gets it

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12-10-2012, 06:33 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Kulemin is a 1st liner?!?!? im sorry but Toronto fans havent seen talent in a decade and dont seem to be able to judge it. Higgins is a more valuable piece to a contending team than Kuli. Kuli isnt likey a 2nd liner on a contender, let alone 1st.
That is what I would think if I didn't watch Kulemin play as much as I do. Trust me, he does all the little things right and you never worry about him defensively when he is on the ice. He can play with superstars, and he can play with plugs, and he will be just as effective. Very trustworthy player, very highly ranked in Toronto.

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12-10-2012, 06:36 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Kulemin is a 1st liner?!?!? im sorry but Toronto fans havent seen talent in a decade and dont seem to be able to judge it. Higgins is a more valuable piece to a contending team than Kuli. Kuli isnt likey a 2nd liner on a contender, let alone 1st.
I would take kulemin over higgins

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12-10-2012, 06:36 PM
  #654
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Roberto Luongo has never had a bad season in his life, that is why he isnt a risk. Every other goalie you could mention does not fit that description.
Try Henrik Lundqvist

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12-10-2012, 06:43 PM
  #655
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do not agree to kulemin, kadri, 1st ..

of those three, kadri is the only piece i would be willing to include, and he would have to be the centerpiece.

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12-10-2012, 07:03 PM
  #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
That is what I would think if I didn't watch Kulemin play as much as I do. Trust me, he does all the little things right and you never worry about him defensively when he is on the ice. He can play with superstars, and he can play with plugs, and he will be just as effective. Very trustworthy player, very highly ranked in Toronto.
but the point was that he was not a first liner, which he isn't. Lots of players do all the little things right. He would be a complimentary player on our second line.

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12-10-2012, 07:15 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
but the point was that he was not a first liner, which he isn't. Lots of players do all the little things right. He would be a complimentary player on our second line.
I agree.

I also think he would make your 2nd unit/team a lot stronger, and you could see Kesler have another big year by not being so defensive minded.

I admit I don't watch a lot of Nuck games, but I have no doubt in my mind Kulemin would be the 2nd line RW at the very minimum. I also think he would be amazing playing with the Sedins (but who isn't).

Either way, I am pretty confident he will not get traded in a deal for Luongo. Apparently, Pittsburgh made a significant offer for him this past summer and he wasn't dealt. Don't quote me on that, and I don't know what 'significant' means but I know the management team loves him here.

Its a very hard situation to predict. As a Leafs fan I wouldn't offer more than what I proposed.

Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
Kadri, D prospect (not Reilly/Gardiner), 2nd

something along those lines.

And I wouldn't accept any of those deals as a Canucks fan.

Luongo asking for a trade and his NTC doesn't bold well when trying to maximize value though. Also having over 9M tied up in goalies doesn't help the situation.

We'll see I guess.

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12-10-2012, 07:24 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
That is what I would think if I didn't watch Kulemin play as much as I do. Trust me, he does all the little things right and you never worry about him defensively when he is on the ice. He can play with superstars, and he can play with plugs, and he will be just as effective. Very trustworthy player, very highly ranked in Toronto.
Love that just as effective line.

7 goals.

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12-10-2012, 07:26 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
I agree.

I also think he would make your 2nd unit/team a lot stronger, and you could see Kesler have another big year by not being so defensive minded.

I admit I don't watch a lot of Nuck games, but I have no doubt in my mind Kulemin would be the 2nd line RW at the very minimum. I also think he would be amazing playing with the Sedins (but who isn't).

Either way, I am pretty confident he will not get traded in a deal for Luongo. Apparently, Pittsburgh made a significant offer for him this past summer and he wasn't dealt. Don't quote me on that, and I don't know what 'significant' means but I know the management team loves him here.

Its a very hard situation to predict. As a Leafs fan I wouldn't offer more than what I proposed.

Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
Kadri, D prospect (not Reilly/Gardiner), 2nd

something along those lines.

And I wouldn't accept any of those deals as a Canucks fan.

Luongo asking for a trade and his NTC doesn't bold well when trying to maximize value though. Also having over 9M tied up in goalies doesn't help the situation.

We'll see I guess.
Not sure how new you are as I'm on mobile, but Luongo never once 'asked' for a trade.

Not one time.

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12-10-2012, 07:27 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
Didn't Luongo ask for a trade when the season was over? And with that contract being so long I don't see how Gillis is in a position to have any leverage.

All this "do you want Luongo or not" talk is pure garbage. Yeah, I'd love to have Luongo on Toronto, just as much as you guys would/need to trade him. Luongo requested a trade. The last couple of stars I know that requested trades didn't go down to well. Heatley, Pronger come to mind.

And just so we are clear. Kulemin is not getting traded. And whoever compares him to Higgins and/or Raymond is crazy. Kulemin could play on the first line on 90% of the teams in the NHL. Not because of his skill, but because he is such a smart, and complete player. Last year was a blessing in disguise. Terrible stats = below market value contract.

There is absolutely no way a first is being mentioned in this trade. Get over it.

Kadri/Bozak speculates as the center piece. Maybe a defensive prospect also (Not Gardiner, Reilly), and a 2nd round pick.

I know this will sound like a terrible offer to most, if not all, Canuck fans on here. But with Luongo's long term contract, and him requesting a trade, and no other team looking for a goalie....Gillis has his hands tied
Sigh, so many errors in a single post.

For starters, no Luongo did not request a trade. He has only given his blessing if Gillis wishes to do so. People have made far too big a deal over a baseless remark that meant nothing. What Lu has said is he would be happy to stick around if the Nucks asked. Lu is not and has never demanded a trade. Can we bury this now?

Higgins is defensively superior, has much stronger work ethic and has been more consistent during his tenure in Vancouver. Last season he popped 43 points despite being on the third line at least have the season, which itself was defensive minded. The difference between him and Kulemin is arguably negligible however you are severely overrating Kulemin. 90% of the league equates to twenty seven teams. He would not crack the first line on half, never mind twenty seven.

You claim he, "does all the little things" is essentially a blanket statement derived of preferential bias considering I could say the same for a good many players, those of whom out produced Kulemin to boot. I do not deny he is a good player and believe he will bounce back to form but to make a zealous state as though it were fact proves bias.

There is absolutely no way we trade Luongo for scraps. Get over it. See how easy that was? Why does your claim have any more creditability than mine?

So what, Kadri+Blacker+2nd? If that is your offer, we will simply keep Luongo.

"Burke needs to make the playoffs or he could lose his job." Again, you are making equally baseless assumptions, just as I am now. Evidently, you refuse the offers posted in this thread. Thus, I cannot see why you bother posting.

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12-10-2012, 07:35 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Roberto Luongo has never had a bad season in his life, that is why he isnt a risk. Every other goalie you could mention does not fit that description.
Last season he was ranked 12 and 16th for SV% and GAA on possibly the best overall team in the league. He also blew it when he needed to perform best. In 2009/2010 he was 18th and 19th. In both years he had a SV% of below .900 in the playoffs.

That's 2 of the last 3 years, where he has been mediocre to bad on a top team.

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12-10-2012, 07:36 PM
  #662
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Just to reiterate, and hopefully kill this nonsense once and for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Luongo
Two months ago, after what had just happened and [Schneider] had just signed, I didnt really see myself being here, Luongo told NHL.com before teeing off at the teams annual charity golf tournament. But I realized once we got into August that was a possibility and I was OK with that.

I pretty much stand the same where I left off, Luongo added. I said I would be willing to lift my no-trade clause if asked, and so far I havent been asked, so Im here.

Ive never given a list of teams and as far as that side of the business I am going to leave it to [general manager Mike Gillis] to do his thing, and I dont really want to talk about any other teams right now. Im here and I think its a bit disrespectful towards my teammates and the organization to be talking about other places.

Im still playing in the NHL and Im still playing with a bunch of guys I love and respect, so theres no reason for me to be frustrated. I dont think theres any point to being like that. Its not good for anybody. If anything it just creates negativity around the team and around myself. Like I said before, its not the worst thing in the world, I am comfortable here, its been my home for six years, and its not a big deal for me.

Source

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12-10-2012, 07:40 PM
  #663
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I admit I don't watch a lot of Nuck games
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And just so we are clear. Kulemin is not getting traded. And whoever compares him to Higgins and/or Raymond is crazy. Kulemin could play on the first line on 90% of the teams in the NHL.
Do you really think you're qualified to call someone crazy if they consider Higgins and Kulemin to be comparable, when you admit to not watching the Canucks play? Also, I'm really not sure where you got that 90% number from. I can easily name 4 teams where Kulemin would not get a sniff at the first line.

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12-10-2012, 07:43 PM
  #664
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What about Grabovski and a 1st round pick for Luongo?

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12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
  #665
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Kulemin and 1st are in no way being sent to Vancouver for Luongo. Kulemin is an outstanding hockey player, probably the most complete on the team. And he's doing pretty damn well in the KHL, getting his scoring touch back.

Kadri/Bozak + Blacker/Franson + 2nd is fair for Luongo, given his contract and the situation the Canucks are in.

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12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
I agree.

I also think he would make your 2nd unit/team a lot stronger, and you could see Kesler have another big year by not being so defensive minded.

I admit I don't watch a lot of Nuck games, but I have no doubt in my mind Kulemin would be the 2nd line RW at the very minimum. I also think he would be amazing playing with the Sedins (but who isn't).

Either way, I am pretty confident he will not get traded in a deal for Luongo. Apparently, Pittsburgh made a significant offer for him this past summer and he wasn't dealt. Don't quote me on that, and I don't know what 'significant' means but I know the management team loves him here.

Its a very hard situation to predict. As a Leafs fan I wouldn't offer more than what I proposed.

Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
Kadri, D prospect (not Reilly/Gardiner), 2nd

something along those lines.

And I wouldn't accept any of those deals as a Canucks fan.

Luongo asking for a trade and his NTC doesn't bold well when trying to maximize value though. Also having over 9M tied up in goalies doesn't help the situation.

We'll see I guess.
The rumored offer was Kulemin+Kadri+something else (probably your 1st) and Burke hesitated. LA upped their offer and Philly took it without calling Toronto back. Keep in mind Kulemin had much higher value back then.

Moving on, the ironic thing is if your offer had one more intriguing piece then it might be worth considering. Regardless, if you would not accept it in our position. I cannot fathom why you are here arguing with us as though you expected we would readily agree. The cap argument loses merit considering we have nothing to spend Lu's salary on. Tell you what, if we ink Perry to a deal in the off season, then maybe we'll deal Lu for cheaper. Barring that we have little reason to move Luongo for the sake of doing so.

And FYI, I actually watch some Toronto games, especially during Kulemin's 30 goal year. Thus, the reason I was debating Y2K on according him.

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12-10-2012, 07:46 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What about Grabovski and a 1st round pick for Luongo?
how about no....

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12-10-2012, 07:49 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeCheeseAllDay View Post
Kulemin and 1st are in no way being sent to Vancouver for Luongo. Kulemin is an outstanding hockey player, probably the most complete on the team. And he's doing pretty damn well in the KHL, getting his scoring touch back.

Kadri/Bozak + Blacker/Franson + 2nd is fair for Luongo, given his contract and the situation the Canucks are in.
Fair to you, meanwhile we do not address much of anything. I like Kadri but he alone is not making a big enough impact on our roster to move Luongo. Blacker is underwhelming and Franson is useless. Furthermore, as I have outlined above, we are in no negative situation. If the offers are lackluster we will merely keep Luongo or trade Schneider.

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12-10-2012, 07:49 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
Didn't Luongo ask for a trade when the season was over? And with that contract being so long I don't see how Gillis is in a position to have any leverage.

All this "do you want Luongo or not" talk is pure garbage. Yeah, I'd love to have Luongo on Toronto, just as much as you guys would/need to trade him. Luongo requested a trade. The last couple of stars I know that requested trades didn't go down to well. Heatley, Pronger come to mind.

And just so we are clear. Kulemin is not getting traded. And whoever compares him to Higgins and/or Raymond is crazy. Kulemin could play on the first line on 90% of the teams in the NHL. Not because of his skill, but because he is such a smart, and complete player. Last year was a blessing in disguise. Terrible stats = below market value contract.

There is absolutely no way a first is being mentioned in this trade. Get over it.

Kadri/Bozak speculates as the center piece. Maybe a defensive prospect also (Not Gardiner, Reilly), and a 2nd round pick.

I know this will sound like a terrible offer to most, if not all, Canuck fans on here. But with Luongo's long term contract, and him requesting a trade, and no other team looking for a goalie....Gillis has his hands tied
Didn't Luongo say he's okay with being in Vancouver? Yeah I thought so.

Don't the Leafs have 0 goalies and have a need for 1? Yeah, I thought so...guess Gillis has move leverage than Burke. If you don't want to pay for Luongo then you won't get him, it's that simple. It isn't like Vancouver HAS to trade him...he said he's okay with being here.

Kulemin is not a 1st liner. He's not even a 2nd liner. I'm puzzled with why you would think a guy who scored 7 goals last year is better than a guy who scored 18. That makes no sense at all. As it stands, Kulemin is not an upgrade on Higgins, Raymond, Hansen or Booth.

A 1st round pick will be involved. Without it I don't see how you can get Luongo unless we start talking Gardiner or Kessel.

Oh, and there are other teams interested in Luongo. You couldn't be more wrong with what you posted.

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12-10-2012, 07:52 PM
  #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeCheeseAllDay View Post
Kulemin and 1st are in no way being sent to Vancouver for Luongo. Kulemin is an outstanding hockey player, probably the most complete on the team. And he's doing pretty damn well in the KHL, getting his scoring touch back.

Kadri/Bozak + Blacker/Franson + 2nd is fair for Luongo, given his contract and the situation the Canucks are in.
You're right. Kulemin and a 1st won't be sent for Luongo. I would do a swap of Kulemin and Raymond probably, just to give each of them a change of scenery, but I don't value Kulemin any more than I would Raymond.

Your proposal is laughable though. Luongo will be traded for a hell of a lot more than that, or else the Canucks will be very happy to hold on to him.

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12-10-2012, 07:52 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And Toronto absolutely sucked. Higgins scored just eight back in 2010. Sure, we bought low on him from Florida but do you really see Kulemin not rebounding? Even prior to his back injury, Raymond struggled. Like I said, I'd prefer better but that package isn't bad per se. Feel free to disagree.
I freaking hate this excuse for Kulemin's low production.

Toronto, by assessment from their own fans, played a run and gun style of play. They had a top 10 offense in the league.

They had a top 10 power play (I know Kulemin wasn't a fixture, but he did play on it).

For those that continue to tout him as a legit 2nd liner, please look at the EV strength ice time statistics for Leafs forwards last year (Kulemin was 7th). This paints the picture, that he is exactly what most of us Canucks fans are calling him a 2/3 line tweener. Not a bonafide lock to dispell anyone on the Canucks current roster out of the top 6.

Edit. He was also 6th in EV strength ice time in his 30 goal year (not a top 6 lock).

I can see Kulemin rebouding from 7 goals, right back to where he should be 14-18 goals.

The other excuse I hate is that he had friends die in the Yaroslavl tragedy...Raymond broke his back and scored 10.

He's a fine player, I can admit that, but not one you center a package around for a franchise goaltender (neither is Kadri, Bozak, or Lupul IMO).


Last edited by arsmaster: 12-10-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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12-10-2012, 07:59 PM
  #672
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3 way trade;

Nucks:
Subban

Leafs:
Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder

Habs:
Gardiner
Tanev
Leafs 2nd
Nucks 2nd


EDITED for argumentative purposes.


Last edited by MISC*: 12-10-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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12-10-2012, 08:02 PM
  #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
3 way trade;

Nucks:
Subban

Leafs:
Luongo
Raymond

Habs:
Gardiner
Tanev
Leafs 2nd
Nucks 2nd
That's interesting...

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12-10-2012, 08:03 PM
  #674
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That's interesting...

Hell id even add Schroeder to the Leafs. Give me Subban.

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12-10-2012, 08:06 PM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Hell id even add Schroeder to the Leafs. Give me Subban.
Leafs are essentially getting Luongo, Raymond and Schroeder for Gardiner and a 2...that's a little much. Take out Schroeder and I think it's more reasonable.

I'm very interested in Subban, but I can't see Habs fans being happy with losing him.

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