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NHL Lockout XXVI: 57 Hockey Channels (And Nothin' On)

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:20 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Good point. Actually it worked out very well for those who stayed around. The players did very well.
That's true, but you'd sure never know it by the way they're approaching this negotiation.

Some of the players involved then have spoken out and said that it wasn't worth going through the lockout and urging present players to get back to work.

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12-10-2012, 08:20 PM
  #77
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Ask Trevor Linden if the players never had the ability to speak out in the past.
You are ignoring the point. It isn't about ability. It's about entirely different avenues. Players did not have the same ability to speak out, on their own, during the last lock out. Their comments had to be passed along through another media source. Now they can make any comment they please from their cell phones while ordering a burger, and it will be seen by thousands of people instantly.

The times are obviously different. There is no disputing that.

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12-10-2012, 08:21 PM
  #78
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Ask Trevor Linden if the players never had the ability to speak out in the past.
linden was in a position of power, there is not 1 single player who has that power any more in the nhlpa. because fehr changed the entire nhlpa format to make sure that there was no more midnight take overs like there was in 2004-05.

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12-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #79
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and as recchi and a few other ex nhl players have said about the past lockout and following there own leader like cattle, just accept the deal and play again no matter what the owners/gms will find a way to keep paying you more and more money.
I understand your position that you think the players should accept the deal. That in no way addresses my point that a majority of the players supportthe NHLPA. If calling them cattle lets you vent some of your frustration then more power to you.

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12-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
linden was in a position of power, there is not 1 single player who has that power any more in the nhlpa. because fehr changed the entire nhlpa format to make sure that there was no more midnight take overs like there was in 2004-05.
Stop bringing logic into this conversation!

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12-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #81
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linden was in a position of power, there is not 1 single player who has that power any more in the nhlpa. because fehr changed the entire nhlpa format to make sure that there was no more midnight take overs like there was in 2004-05.
You missed the point. Players complained publicly about Linden and the PA. The myth of a huge silent majority is just that: a myth.
Fehr was hired by the players. They knew they were getting a hardliner when they hired him. You can forget the argument that Fehr has taken over the NHLPA. The players wanted him and the players got him, for better or worse.

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12-10-2012, 08:26 PM
  #82
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I understand your position that you think the players should accept the deal. That in no way addresses my point that a majority of the players supportthe NHLPA. If calling them cattle lets you vent some of your frustration then more power to you.
In the same sense that you are saying we are bringing our own views and applying them to players when we say we feel a lot of players would vote yes to the current NHL offer, you are doing the exact same thing by saying they support the union and would vote no.

You have no way of knowing what 375+ players think. Hell, you have only named 3 so far, two of which dont even have NHL contracts.

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12-10-2012, 08:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I understand your position that you think the players should accept the deal. That in no way addresses my point that a majority of the players supportthe NHLPA. If calling them cattle lets you vent some of your frustration then more power to you.
they are cattle though, not only to the owners, but to fehr, but to there agents, but to every one that has any kind of influence on there hockey career.

90% of nhl players would be completely lost and taken advantage of (some still do), if they didn't have people telling them what they need to do or say.

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12-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I understand your position that you think the players should accept the deal. That in no way addresses my point that a majority of the players supportthe NHLPA. If calling them cattle lets you vent some of your frustration then more power to you.
You yourself pointed out "I'm not sure why so many posters feel that they know what the players are thinking." You can't possibly have any way to know whether a majority of the players support the NHLPA or not. You can believe it or speculate about it, but it can't be stated as factual by anyone.

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The myth of a huge silent majority is just that: a myth.
If there are 750 players in the union and less than 375 have spoken out, then there is a majority that is, so far, silent.

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12-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #85
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This is just the tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist in me, but I find it strange the NHL didn't include the 14 games on New Year's Eve in today's cancellations (unless there is a reason for it which I missed when reading about it on TSN)

What a better way to bring in the new year than to possibly have the opening night of hockey as a part of the festivities.

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12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #86
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Anyone on the players side can attend the meetings.
OK so why is it that he becomes the key note speaker, should it not be a negotiating team member? I would expect that with his apparent close involvement he should be on the committee, why does he do more talking, feedback to the press than the negotiators?

Given that some members opted for Europe and others stay silent and all teams are not represented it would seem that this committee is simply a face of the "average" player rather than the true power players of the NHLPA, the upper echelon, who are driving this. Most of these guys say nothing, yet guys who are not on the committee have much to say about everything and many of those speaking are the "elite".

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12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
You missed the point. Players complained publicly about Linden and the PA. The myth of a huge silent majority is just that: a myth.
Fehr was hired by the players. They knew they were getting a hardliner when they hired him.
You stating that as fact is as valid as me saying there IS a silent majority.

I liken the lack of negative union comments by players to the bystander effect in a sorts. Everyone feels someone else will do it and therefore no one does it.

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12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
You missed the point. Players complained publicly about Linden and the PA. The myth of a huge silent majority is just that: a myth.
Fehr was hired by the players. They knew they were getting a hardliner when they hired him. You can forget the argument that Fehr has taken over the NHLPA. The players wanted him and the players got him, for better or worse.
what players complained about linden, other then lindros can you find me one player who has ever said anything bad about linden and the way he handled himself the last lockout.

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12-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #89
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12-10-2012, 08:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
In the same sense that you are saying we are bringing our own views and applying them to players when we say we feel a lot of players would vote yes to the current NHL offer, you are doing the exact same thing by saying they support the union and would vote no.

You have no way of knowing what 375+ players think. Hell, you have only named 3 so far, two of which dont even have NHL contracts.
No. I'm not. I'm saying that unless there is some evidence to the contrary you have to assume that Fehr has the support of a majority of the players. You guys are just pulling stuff out of the air right now. It's like me saying a a majority of the owners are ready to turf Bettman. Can you prove they're not? Anyways I'm done. No doubt there wil be a big player uprising tomorrow to overthrow the shackles that Fehr has put on them. I need my rest.

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12-10-2012, 08:29 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhryous View Post
This is just the tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist in me, but I find it strange the NHL didn't include the 14 games on New Year's Eve in today's cancellations (unless there is a reason for it which I missed when reading about it on TSN)

What a better way to bring in the new year than to possibly have the opening night of hockey as a part of the festivities.
Part of me thinks that the NHL is just doing it in small chunks like this in order to keep interest of the fans. If they just cut down the season or even a month at a time, fewer would care at what's going on. Hmm, maybe this lockout is starting to get to me. I'm usually an optimist.

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12-10-2012, 08:29 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
You stating that as fact is as valid as me saying there IS a silent majority.

I liken the lack of negative union comments by players to the bystander effect in a sorts. Everyone feels someone else will do it and therefore no one does it.
That damn Genovese Syndrome. It's always causing problems.

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12-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
No. I'm not. I'm saying that unless there is some evidence to the contraryyou have to assume that Fehr has the support of a majority of the players. You guys are just pulling stuff out of the air right now. Anyways I'm done. No doubt there wil be a big player uprising tomorrow to overthrow the shackles that Fehr has put on them. I need my rest.
This isn't a situation where you have to believe one thing if another thing cannot be proven. In fact, that is rarely ever a reality.

Fehr may have the support of the majority of the NHLPA. He may not. He may have support of some players who are also OK with the deal that the NHL presented last. I'm sure there are several players who do not support him at all.

We don't simply have two positions here. It's isn't strictly "with me or against me". I'm sure there are a wide range of opinions, and varying degrees of support for the way the Union is handling this at the moment.

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12-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
No. I'm not. I'm saying that unless there is some evidence to the contrary you have to assume that Fehr has the support of a majority of the players. You guys are just pulling stuff out of the air right now. It's like me saying a a majority of the owners are ready to turf Bettman. Can you prove they're not? Anyways I'm done. No doubt there wil be a big player uprising tomorrow to overthrow the shackles that Fehr has put on them. I need my rest.
So wait... because I have no proof of my theory it doesnt hold any validity. But, even though you have no proof in your theory, it is valid and Im just spewing hot air.

Makes perfect sense.

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That damn Genovese Syndrome. It's always causing problems.

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12-10-2012, 08:34 PM
  #95
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No. I'm not. I'm saying that unless there is some evidence to the contrary you have to assume that Fehr has the support of a majority of the players.
Not in my book. All I can assume is that the vast majority of players have, for whatever reason, chosen to not speak publicly on the issue.

But if you're right, why not put it to a vote and PROVE to the league that they're fighting a battle they can't win against the majority of the players? No need to assume anything that way and surely it would move the process along once the owners know for sure where they stand.

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12-10-2012, 08:39 PM
  #96
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Good point. Actually it worked out very well for those who stayed around. The players did very well.
In the long run.

They still lost a season of pay that they could have kept had they simply agreed to the cap in the first place.

They want to "win" this time, but they will lose just the same if not worse if they let it go the whole season.

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12-10-2012, 08:40 PM
  #97
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what if even hockey popularity in canada takes a major hit this time? the nhl and the nhlpa are playing a potentially deadly game if that happens.

i really hope this does happen.

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12-10-2012, 08:45 PM
  #98
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what if even hockey popularity in canada takes a major hit this time? the nhl and the nhlpa are playing a potentially deadly game if that happens.

i really hope this does happen.
it won't.

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12-10-2012, 08:46 PM
  #99
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it won't.
that cbc poll dissagree's with you

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12-10-2012, 08:48 PM
  #100
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I figure they will cancel the season on Jan 1st?
Happy New Year's, NHL fans!

Here's a way to brighten up the year.

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