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ATD 2013 - Planning

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:15 PM
  #101
monster_bertuzzi
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So when is the sign up? I'm geeked for another shot in the ATD.

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12-11-2012, 09:29 PM
  #102
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So when is the sign up? I'm geeked for another shot in the ATD.
Sounds like it will be early to mid January

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12-12-2012, 02:19 AM
  #103
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Agree with this. If you're giving someone a clock, then you shouldn't be mad if they use 100% of it every time it's their pick. If you don't want that to happen, change the rules in some way.
It's not THAT somebody uses their clock, it's WHY they use their clock.

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12-13-2012, 08:46 AM
  #104
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In the future does anybody have any interest in having an ATD where we have 5-7 outside judge's do the voting on seeding, playoffs etc...

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12-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
In the future does anybody have any interest in having an ATD where we have 5-7 outside judge's do the voting on seeding, playoffs etc...
Already? You're going to start this already? It's not even January yet!

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12-13-2012, 10:04 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
In the future does anybody have any interest in having an ATD where we have 5-7 outside judge's do the voting on seeding, playoffs etc...
My question is the same as last time: Where would these judges come from?

Last time, we had sturminator and seventieslord closely following the ATD without being participants, but that seems like more an exception rather than a rule.

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12-13-2012, 10:26 AM
  #107
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If you can't trust your fellow GMs to be honest, impartial and nonpolitical in their voting, don't join the draft.

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12-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #108
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Freaking pumped for this draft.

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12-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #109
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Where did I say I don't trust the fellow gm's? It's an idea that I think would be fun and speed up some time issues with different things. A panel of 5-7 outside judge's if you will to vote on seedings, playoffs, acceptable trades etc.... it's not some backdoor dig from me it's a genuine idea. To answer tdmm the HOH board would be my start. Obviously sturm, overpass come. To mind. You don't think we could find 3-5 posters who would fit the bill, or a gm or two who would rather be a panel member then draft a team.

Bm67, hockeyoutsider. Posters like them.

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12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Where did I say I don't trust the fellow gm's? It's an idea that I think would be fun and speed up some time issues with different things. A panel of 5-7 outside judge's if you will to vote on seedings, playoffs, acceptable trades etc.... it's not some backdoor dig from me it's a genuine idea. To answer tdmm the HOH board would be my start. Obviously sturm, overpass come. To mind. You don't think we could find 3-5 posters who would fit the bill, or a gm or two who would rather be a panel member then draft a team.

Bm67, hockeyoutsider. Posters like them.
I wouldn't feel comfortable voting in the current AAA draft because I haven't been following it. Sure, I assassinated a few teams, but that was just by skimming linked profiles - I really don't know anything about the other teams.

I realize that players in the main ATD are more "known commodities" but not all of them are. Just look at how much Tommy Phillips' stock has risen in the past few drafts - not that long ago, he was considered an acceptable 4th liner. An outsider not following the draft closely wouldn't necessarily be familiar with new arguments.

For your idea to work, you really need 5-7 people who are going to follow the draft closely without having teams and I just don't see that happening.

"Veteran GMs" who haven't participated are welcome to vote if they feel they have been following the draft closely enough, but how many actually do?

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12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #111
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I say 70's and Sturm be GM's in this one, hell with the commisioner roles.

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12-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #112
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I say 70's and Sturm be GM's in this one, hell with the commisioner roles.
I honestly can't see myself doing an ATD.

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12-13-2012, 03:22 PM
  #113
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I honestly can't see myself doing an ATD.
pfft, quitting while you're ahead.

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12-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #114
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pfft, quitting while you're ahead.
yeah. a little bit. I am not as hungry. I think I admitted that last year too. Scott Stevens I am not.

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12-13-2012, 05:07 PM
  #115
Mike Farkas
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I honestly can't see myself doing an ATD.
You don't participate in the ATD? I figured it would be your Christmas, what's the deal?

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12-13-2012, 06:54 PM
  #116
seventieslord
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You don't participate in the ATD? I figured it would be your Christmas, what's the deal?
They are a lot of work, and I'm not one of you guys anymore. I have a wife and a kid who deserve my time, and own five rental units. Together they make my life pretty hectic.

I can draft 25 players, obviously. that's no problem. But that's not how I roll. Check out my roster posts and bios for ATDs 11, 12, 2010, and 2011. I can't just draft. I've tried and I always end up going all out. The 2011 draft was going to be my last chance to win, I knew that heading in; life was about to get too busy - actually, it already had, but I did it anyway.

I feel very fortunate to have slogged it out with you guys in order to have my brief moment at the top of the ATD mountain. But I'm out of oxygen, you guys go on without me, I'll die up here.

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12-13-2012, 07:41 PM
  #117
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BM67 and John Flyers Fan are still missed. You will be too seventieslord.

Long live the ATDs!

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:53 PM
  #118
Mike Farkas
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I feel very fortunate to have slogged it out with you guys in order to have my brief moment at the top of the ATD mountain. But I'm out of oxygen, you guys go on without me, I'll die up here.
Ok, bye.





















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They are a lot of work, and I'm not one of you guys anymore. I have a wife and a kid who deserve my time, and own five rental units. Together they make my life pretty hectic.

I can draft 25 players, obviously. that's no problem. But that's not how I roll. Check out my roster posts and bios for ATDs 11, 12, 2010, and 2011. I can't just draft. I've tried and I always end up going all out. The 2011 draft was going to be my last chance to win, I knew that heading in; life was about to get too busy - actually, it already had, but I did it anyway.
Hey, look, if you don't want to do the ATD anymore, then don't. But don't straight up lie to us and say that you convinced someone to marry you...at least make it believable...heaven forbid...

Seriously though, that's fair enough I suppose (as if I'm the judge of that...). You participate in the lower-end stuff because it involves less time I suppose? (I've never done an ATD before, so I can't gauge it...but like Ron Burgundy, it sounds like kind of a big deal...).

Also, while I have you on the line here, so to speak, I'm trying to get a couple of these "handbook of pro hockey" and "hockey scouting report" books as I can find them. I got the 2004 one and in each profile there's a little net and a line coming out of it with an "A", sometimes a "B", rarely a "C" and with one player or two a "D" - nowhere does it say what that represents, I figured you'd be the best one to ask (it's probably explained in previous versions). I just can't wrap my head around what that's supposed to mean...

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:39 PM
  #119
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Hey, look, if you don't want to do the ATD anymore, then don't. But don't straight up lie to us and say that you convinced someone to marry you...at least make it believable...heaven forbid...
Hey, I never said my wife was human, or even animate...

Quote:
Seriously though, that's fair enough I suppose (as if I'm the judge of that...). You participate in the lower-end stuff because it involves less time I suppose? (I've never done an ATD before, so I can't gauge it...but like Ron Burgundy, it sounds like kind of a big deal...).
I find it more intriguing, and yes, it does take less time. I have previously owned or competed against probably 80% of MLD and AAA players by now, since I've been in 5-8 of each, and since they are smaller drafts. So there's less of a learning curve. In the ATD there's still lots to learn - and lots of places to learn it! When I have an ATD caliber player there are literally 100 books that might have good passages on him that I "need" to check. that takes a ton of time. By the time we're in the MLD and AAA, as you may have noticed, the scouting report guides have great meaty information on just about any post-expansion player at least. So much that it makes it almost not worth perusing unindexed books unless you KNOW that there's something there, and exactly where to find it.

So, long story short, sticking to MLD and AAA drafts has allowed me to still excel in the bio department by being more efficient with my study time, while still providing an outlet for my competitive side.

At the same time, last draft proved to myself I can still have fun with an ATD by just being an unbiased observer and elder statesman who can still influence the future draft lists by providing support for strong picks and questioning the questionable ones. I think that leaves me in a good middle ground. I do know that since ATD2011, my blow up... i mean, wife, has never complained about the time I spend doing drafts.

Quote:
Also, while I have you on the line here, so to speak, I'm trying to get a couple of these "handbook of pro hockey" and "hockey scouting report" books as I can find them. I got the 2004 one and in each profile there's a little net and a line coming out of it with an "A", sometimes a "B", rarely a "C" and with one player or two a "D" - nowhere does it say what that represents, I figured you'd be the best one to ask (it's probably explained in previous versions). I just can't wrap my head around what that's supposed to mean...
Those represent where the player typically scores from, if I understand it correctly. I don't pay much attention to that part, though.

I have about 4-5 recent McKeen's and/or sports forecasters that are duplicates I came across... I was gonna offer them up to someone who wants to just pay a few bucks for them. Seems like they would be a waste going to you though... just write one yourself!

if you're still looking for more "HOPH" and "HSR" guides, they are out there, but it's tough. watch for them to pop up on abebooks, and on amazon. Ebay is, surprisingly, a dead end. Not a single one of my entire collection came from ebay.

Some were expensive. often the sellers knew they had the only one on the net and gouged me for $25. I have no idea how many years will now be impossible to find thanks to me, but I bet it's a lot.

Might want to join SIHR, too. I had every edition except 1974, which was impossible to find online, emailed the mailing list and within hours had set up a deal to have the 1974 edition sent to me. IIRC, someone else contacted me afterwards as well.

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12-18-2012, 08:55 AM
  #120
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Dawson City will be back for a third season (and possibly first ever series win! ), whenever we get this ball rolling.

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12-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #121
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One thing that really bothered me last year was it seemed like goaltending didn't matter. If you're going to have a bottom 5 goalie, you'd better be so superior with your skaters, or you should lose - but that wasn't the case.

It's all relative, so in our league Roy or Hasek or Sawchuck are stars...and Barasso/Rayner/Giacomin etc. suck like James Reimer.

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12-18-2012, 07:00 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's all relative, so in the league Roy or Hasek or Sawchuck are stars...and Barasso/Rayner/Giacomin etc. suck like James Reimer.
Not THAT bad. Rayner and Giacomin are HHOFers and multiple NHL 1st team all-stars! Barrasso won two Stanley Cups.

So James Reimer is not the best analogy. More like a Chris Osgood, Antti Niemi or J-S Giguere, goalies who backstopped championships in the last six years WITHOUT being one of the top stars of the series.

A team doesn't need one of its top three or four stars to be goalies, but... agreed: ATD discussions often seem to downplay goaltending battles when the difference between a Patrick Roy and a short-time wonder ought to make a much bigger difference in reflections.

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12-18-2012, 07:26 PM
  #123
Mike Farkas
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Coaching and team-building should be major factors. You can build a good defensive club with a good tactician and get away with having a relatively weak goalie - look no further than our recent Stanley Cup Finals:
2006 finalist - Roloson - journeyman behind Pronger
2007 finalists - Giguere - fraudulent goaltender behind defensive system/unsportsmanlike equipment/Pronger vs. Emery - fringe NHLer
2008 and 09 finalists - Osgood - just about always the weakest link behind Lidstrom. Fleury - flashes of brilliance, flashes of wtf-ness...
2010 finalists - Niemi: low-tier starter who played poorly in the series; Leighton - career minor leaguer who played worse...behind Pronger
2011 - career journeyman Thomas behind defensive system/Chara

If these games take place with today's rules and today's equipment and today's coach's game - you can build something and stick anyone behind it and it'll probably work out...but you really have to build a defensive squad and unfortunately (or fortunately) coaching tactics don't seem to weigh too heavily.

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12-18-2012, 08:23 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
If these games take place with today's rules and today's equipment and today's coach's game - you can build something and stick anyone behind it and it'll probably work out...but you really have to build a defensive squad and unfortunately (or fortunately) coaching tactics don't seem to weigh too heavily.
Do these games take place with today's rules and today's equipment and coaching? I don't see that written anywhere. The only part that has to be modern is the roster size.

I guess you can't just announce that you are playing your games under seven-man rules and post your roster with rovers and all - we know it's six-man hockey.

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12-18-2012, 08:24 PM
  #125
Mike Farkas
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I mean, yeah, I don't know...I said "if"...I've never even been in an ATD before, how should I know

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