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2012-13 Colorado Avalanche Prospects Thread

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:50 PM
  #501
Zandar
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Btw I just notice Hishon still hasn't played this season, any update on his concussion situation?
Talk of him going south to meet up with another specialist. It's going to be a while...

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12-10-2012, 10:35 PM
  #502
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Talk of him going south to meet up with another specialist. It's going to be a while...
A while? Try never.

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12-10-2012, 10:36 PM
  #503
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I have zero optimism regarding Hishon's future. Avs need to move forward as if he wasn't in our system.

I wish him the best for his health though.

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:34 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by hek View Post
It's a team stat applied to an individual. It's almost totally worthless except in very specific instances. The quality of the team has far more impact on plus/minus than individual ability.
Fair enough. I see your point, man. I see where you're coming from with the team composition and level impacting the stat. But, we're gonna have to agree to disagree. The best players tend to have the best +/-, and in the elite player category they do it against the other teams' best players night in and night out over many, many years.

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12-11-2012, 12:19 AM
  #505
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Teams were required to submit a list of CHL players that they would be able get to the training camp if the lockout ended. It's just an option to invite them, not an obligation.

NBC has a list of 19 of the teams that can call players. Avs didn't have any.

Anaheim: Richard Rakell, John Gibson
Boston: Dougie Hamilton
Buffalo: Mikhail Grigorenko
Carolina: Ryan Murphy, Victor Rask
Columbus: Boone Jenner, Ryan Murray
Dallas: Radek Faksa, Matej Stransky, Brett Ritchie
Edmonton: Nail Yakupov, David Musil
Florida: Jonathan Huberdeau
Minnesota: Matthew Dumba
Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk
NY Islanders: Ryan Strome, Griffin Reinhart
Ottawa: Cody Ceci, Stefan Noesen
Philadelphia: Scott Laughton
Pittsburgh: Scott Harrington, Olli Maatta, Derrick Pouliot
St. Louis: Ty Rattie
Toronto: Morgan Rielly, David Broll
Vancouver: Frank Corrado
Washington: Thomas Wilson
Winnipeg: Mark Scheifele

If a deal get done this week and they aim for a 31st Jan start, Team Canada might be screwed.


Last edited by Freudian: 12-11-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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12-11-2012, 06:30 AM
  #506
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Teams were required to submit a list of CHL players that they would be able get to the training camp if the lockout ended. It's just an option to invite them, not an obligation.
I believe this list was submitted back in September?

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:40 AM
  #507
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A while? Try never.
And what if he does come back and becomes a solid top 6 forward? You're going to eat your words if that happens. Because being a pessimistic is just like being an optimists in terms of being wrong. Personally I have no opinion about Hishon because anyone can come back. The problem is how long will it take? And what will Avs do considering he's on his last year of his ELC, do avs let him go and then sign him when he is 100% healthily? Or do the avs let GM go period? Or do the Avs sign him to another deal having hope he will come back? I honestly have no clue what they will do, but she is interesting.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:28 PM
  #508
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I believe they will let him go.

They didn't retain Mueller, I can't see them retaining Hishon either.

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12-11-2012, 03:30 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
I believe they will let him go.

They didn't retain Mueller, I can't see them retaining Hishon either.
The thing I see is because they drafted him (while the other players we got were from trades, Flash/Mueller) they might retain his rights. But I think we all agree that Hishon HAS to play this season if he wants to stay with us.

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12-11-2012, 03:45 PM
  #510
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HAS to? Betcha he won't.

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12-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #511
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HAS to? Betcha he won't.
Yup which is why he's probably good as gone. What a sad situation, not only for him, but for the Avs losing a player with decent talent and 1st rounder.

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12-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #512
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Just another coulda/woulda/shoulda been.

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12-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #513
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I believe they will let him go.

They didn't retain Mueller, I can't see them retaining Hishon either.
I think Mueller's case is a bit different, as it was re-occurring concussions.

IF Hishon's case is truly whiplash-related, as has been reported, that may alter the Avs' plans for him.

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:43 PM
  #514
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Does it really take two years to recover from whiplash?

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12-11-2012, 05:46 PM
  #515
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Does it really take two years to recover from whiplash?
It took Crosby a while, mostly because they misdiagnosed it.

And I would assume that whiplash is similar to concussions in terms of recovery, it varies from person to person.

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12-11-2012, 06:00 PM
  #516
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Does it really take two years to recover from whiplash?
I believe last year was due to the concussion sustained by McNabb and this year is a bad whiplash effect causing concussion like symptoms. That is how I see it.

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12-11-2012, 06:19 PM
  #517
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Is there a pool for his return to L.E.?

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:29 PM
  #518
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Lets not make up a medical history for this guy, we just don't have enough information. What we do know is that he has had concussion symptoms and vertebral issues that have kept him off the ice for 18 months and that he's not really any closer to returning to hockey than he has been at any other point. No reason to expect much to change in the next 6 months until we hear otherwise.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:20 PM
  #519
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As for me, i didnt quit on Hishon yet , but i'm realistic that chances are not that good to see him in an Avs Jersey. If he does end up playing for us , i'll take it as a bonus .

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12-11-2012, 07:30 PM
  #520
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I feel so bad for that kid. To possibly have his career ended during what were probably his last days of junior after having such a good season. I just can't imagine what it would it feel like to be on the precipice of becoming a millionaire and playing in the NHL and having it teared away from you in the blink of an eye.

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12-11-2012, 07:42 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
And what if he does come back and becomes a solid top 6 forward? You're going to eat your words if that happens. Because being a pessimistic is just like being an optimists in terms of being wrong. Personally I have no opinion about Hishon because anyone can come back. The problem is how long will it take? And what will Avs do considering he's on his last year of his ELC, do avs let him go and then sign him when he is 100% healthily? Or do the avs let GM go period? Or do the Avs sign him to another deal having hope he will come back? I honestly have no clue what they will do, but she is interesting.
Pessimist? Is that what you call it when Hishon has been out of competitive hockey for 18 months? That's not to mention he's never proven it at the AHL level let alone the NHL level. The odds against this kid ever making the NHL at this point are monumental let alone having any impact whatsoever.

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12-11-2012, 09:57 PM
  #522
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According to Capgeek Hishon is signed through the 2013-14 season. Does this contract still tick down even if he's injured and not playing anywhere? I would assume that if Hishon isn't completely healthy and playing by that time that he's a goner as far as our organization is concerned. Even if he is playing at that point, I'd wager it's at least 2-3 years before we even think about him reaching the NHL. It will take a long time for him to get back into hockey shape after not touching a sheet of ice in 18+ months, then he needs to transition to AHL and then NHL game pace.

Given all that, I really can't see Hishon ever playing in an Avs jersey.

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12-11-2012, 11:31 PM
  #523
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I feel so bad for that kid. To possibly have his career ended during what were probably his last days of junior after having such a good season. I just can't imagine what it would it feel like to be on the precipice of becoming a millionaire and playing in the NHL and having it teared away from you in the blink of an eye.
This. He was playing at such a high level, had such a bright future ahead of him, probably would have seen at least callup time with the Avs the next year. It's absolutely brutal that that was taken away in the last games of the year on such a dirty cheapshot. I hope more than anything that Mcnabb never pans out as an NHL regular but unfortunately think he has a long career ahead of him.


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According to Capgeek Hishon is signed through the 2013-14 season. Does this contract still tick down even if he's injured and not playing anywhere?
Yes it does.

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Old
12-12-2012, 12:25 PM
  #524
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Yeah, that's why I brought up Boychuk. I'm not down on Gaunce or anything. I've been pretty vocal in here over the years, discussing the subject of the Avs inability to develop a decent defensive defenseman through their system, so I'm watching Gaunce and Siemens in this respect.

I'm OK giving Gaunce the time (as it seems right now he'd be no more than a depth NHL defenseman, and more depth defensemen is something the Avs most certainly don't need right now), but was just wondering if the kid really has NHL skill. I suppose we'll just have to wait it out and see.
This has definitely always been a weak point with the Avs system, but isn't the biggest factor for a defenseman's development at the point where Gaunce and Boychuk were, the AHL coaching staff? Billington and others may have some input and advice, but I would think the coaching staff is by far the biggest development tool, and that changes fairly often, especially with the Avs.

Perhaps you could point to Billington and his staff in regards to the one or two years of development in junior prior to being in the AHL, but again I think the coaching staff and their teaching, and style of play and role for the player have the biggest impact.

I definitely think the Avs need to improve their track record for defensive prospects, but I think that has more to do with the fact they like to pick more defenseman in the smaller offensive mold like Cumiskey and hope they can eventually grow their all around game not to be a liability and it hasn't really worked out so far. The other guys haven't worked out just by the sheer smaller sample of defensive prospects in a different mold from the Cumiskey/Barrie/Elliott mold.

To me Boychuk is a guy that just didn't work out because there were guys ahead of him that were better or further along in their development, and more importantly he fit into Boston's system and the Eastern conference style of play better, so his defensive weaknesses weren't as big of a deterrent. He still has big holes in his defensive game, isn't the best skater, and despite a few big shots he isn't exactly an offensive dynamo.

It just seems like so far none of their picks seem to work out as hoped. Their talented offensive guys can't develop their overall game. Their big all around guys like Williams and Cohen don't have the hockey IQ to play at the NHL level. And their purely defensive guys don't seem to have the tools or foot speed to play at the NHL level either.

I think the main factor in all of this is the scouting and philosophy on which defenseman to pick. That may be the area that needs to be changed, or perhaps already has been since it's still too early to really evaluate the newer guys.

I'm gonna say something that may be unpopular, but I think we tend to overrate Pracey. I don't dislike him, or think he sucks, I just don't think he's gotten the results that we tend to imply. Outside of slam dunk picks like Lando and Duchene, there isn't a whole lot of success stories. O'Reilly is probably the only one because they could have passed on him like Detroit did, but even still he was rated as a 1st rounder by some and dropped a bit. We tend to base our views of Pracey being a genius on recent picks like Hishon, Elliott, and Barrie having strong seasons in junior, but if we're being results oriented, Hishon's career is in jeapordy because of an injury which was the gamble they took on a smaller forward, and Elliott and Barrie still have a lot of work to do on thier overall game to be NHL ready.

This isn't to say they won't every get there, but up until they do, Pracey hasn't really gotten the results that would warrant a successful draft strategy. It looked good at first based on junior success, but we need to temper our praise a bit, and reserve judgment until some of these guys really establish themselves as NHL players, because that's the end goal for why you draft a player. Just my opinion.

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Old
12-12-2012, 05:15 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I'm gonna say something that may be unpopular, but I think we tend to overrate Pracey. I don't dislike him, or think he sucks, I just don't think he's gotten the results that we tend to imply. Outside of slam dunk picks like Lando and Duchene, there isn't a whole lot of success stories. O'Reilly is probably the only one because they could have passed on him like Detroit did, but even still he was rated as a 1st rounder by some and dropped a bit. We tend to base our views of Pracey being a genius on recent picks like Hishon, Elliott, and Barrie having strong seasons in junior, but if we're being results oriented, Hishon's career is in jeapordy because of an injury which was the gamble they took on a smaller forward, and Elliott and Barrie still have a lot of work to do on thier overall game to be NHL ready.

This isn't to say they won't every get there, but up until they do, Pracey hasn't really gotten the results that would warrant a successful draft strategy. It looked good at first based on junior success, but we need to temper our praise a bit, and reserve judgment until some of these guys really establish themselves as NHL players, because that's the end goal for why you draft a player. Just my opinion.
Hahaha, we're judging him after four drafts? Besides the logical decisions of our front office staff, I think our scouting department is the strongest of our management. Maybe not the best or top 3, but I say we are definitely in the top 10. Let's take a look at Pracey's record of his four drafts and see how bad he did. Also forgive me about 2008 because I don't know if he took over at that time or not.

2009
003 - Matt Duchene: Great pick when he had other options, only player I would potentially take over Matt is OEL.
033 - Ryan O'Reilly: Fantastic pick.
049 - Stefan Elliott: Great pick.
064 - Tyson Barrie: Looking like an outstanding selection.
124 - Kieran Millan: Too early to tell, but is starting to turn heads so far in his brief pro career.
154 - Brandon Maxwell: Definitely was picked to improve our goaler pool, can't make every player into a starting goaler I guess.
184 - Gus Young: Like all 7th round picks, they're projects and he simply didn't improve since his solid high school year.

2010
017 - Joey Hishon: Controversial pick at first, but Pracey saw something that none of his did. If it wasn't for **** McNabb he would be alongside Sgarbossa putting up good numbers.
049 - Calvin Pickard: So far is looking like a solid pick.I
071 - Michael Bournival [MTL]: I don't know if you've ever seen him play, but he is fantastic. Picture a 3rd line version of O'Reilly.
095 - Stephen Silas: Terrible pick, especially considering we traded picks to get him, but did have a great draft year statistically.
107 - Sami Aittokallio: Fantastic pick for a 5th rounder.
137 - Troy Rutkowsk: Not a bad pick at all, saw this more of the management not wanting to sign him than Percy's own opinion.
139 - Luke Walker: Too early to tell, but looking like he could become a solid bottom 6 forward.
197 - Luke Moffatt: Another example of a 7th round project, they drafted him because he potentially had raw top 6 potential. No biggie that he didn't improve, like I said can't win all of them.

2011
002 - Gabriel Landeskog: Fantastic pick when "draft experts" were calling him a 3rd line grinder and how they couldn't pick franchise Larsson.
011 - Duncan Siemens: I personally wanted Bartischi, but you must think that Siemens brings something our team has lacked since Adam Foote. Plus we took a forward already with the Viking.
093 - Joachim Nermark: Too early to tell, but should get a good look at for the WJC and is showing he's too good for their junior team.
123 - Garrett Meurs: Personal favourite and project pick, but has good potential to be consider as a top 9 forward. Needs to gain a lot of strength, but talent is there.
153 - Gabriel Beaupre: Too early to tell, but is looking like a very nice player for a 6th round pick.
183 - Dillon Donnelly: Too early to tell what the Avs will do with him, but he is another defenseman you HATE to play against and heart/soul player.

2012
041 - Mitchell Heard: Not a big fan of this pick as I believe we could've gotten someone with the same skill with much higher offensive potential. But I think the player the Avs wanted was drafted before their position.
072 - Troy Bourke: Fantastic pick for a 3rd rounder, considering he could've been a second. Too early to tell, but I have liked what I've seen so far.
132 - Michael Clarke: Project player as he is still raw and is suffering from inconsistent streaks. All tools are there though to be a solid top 12 forward.
162 - Joseph Blandisi: Too early to tell for all these players in the 2012 draft, but I must say that this kid has improve since last season and is looking like a keeper.
192 - Colin Smith: Definitely a top 6 or bust player, Smith is looking like a fantastic darkhorse 7th rounder.

You can say that Pracey is actually suffering from a lack of picks through trades and I think the Silas pick was probably the worst out of the bunch. Though I think you should out of all people that draft picks are very overrated compared to proven players which we've traded majority of our picks for.


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