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Old
12-10-2012, 09:35 PM
  #701
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Both sides in CBA negotiations have said Cap will remain unchanged this year and change next. Got to keep up to date with the news if you are going to make comments on this subject. Leafs will have 3 million in cap space in the given scenario.

Concensus package:

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

For

Luongo
I wouldn't say that's the consensus.

Personally if none of Lupul, Kulemin, or a 1st are coming our way, I'm not that interested in the package.

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12-10-2012, 09:46 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Both sides in CBA negotiations have said Cap will remain unchanged this year and change next. Got to keep up to date with the news if you are going to make comments on this subject. Leafs will have 3 million in cap space in the given scenario.

Concensus package:

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

For

Luongo
Lol that's huge overpayment.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:51 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I wouldn't say that's the consensus.

Personally if none of Lupul, Kulemin, or a 1st are coming our way, I'm not that interested in the package.
I wouldn't put Kulemin in the same class as Lupul.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:52 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't put Kulemin in the same class as Lupul.
Agreed. But I'd be okay with either Lupul+ or Kulemin++ as a base.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:54 PM
  #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Both sides in CBA negotiations have said Cap will remain unchanged this year and change next. Got to keep up to date with the news if you are going to make comments on this subject. Leafs will have 3 million in cap space in the given scenario.

Concensus package:

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

For

Luongo
That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean for sure. I mean just a little while ago wasn't decertification of contracts thrown out there? Until the CBA is done we just don't know. The "news" as you call it is far from solid. Forgive me if I don't take anything they say seriously at this point.

In any case, it may not be a requirement. Guess we'll find out.

Not a bad deal but calling it consensus at this point is a bit premature.

We'll see what Burke does.

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12-10-2012, 09:54 PM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Agreed. But I'd be okay with either Lupul+ or Kulemin++ as a base.
Is that ++ someone like Gardiner? If all you are talking about is Kadri and a 1st it wouldn't be good enough for me. The Leafs just don't have any prospects that really excite me so I wouldn't be interested at all in a package centered around Kulemin.

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12-10-2012, 09:55 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean for sure. I mean just a little while ago wasn't decertification of contracts thrown out there? Until the CBA is done we just don't know. The "news" as you call it is far from solid. Forgive me if I don't take anything they say seriously at this point.

In any case, it may not be a requirement. Guess we'll find out.

Not a bad deal but calling it consensus at this point is a bit premature.

We'll see what Burke does.
Of course you think it's not a bad deal, because it's a bunch of trash being dealt for an elite top 5 goalie. If Burke does that he should get GM of the Year and Gillis should be fired.

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12-10-2012, 09:55 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Both sides in CBA negotiations have said Cap will remain unchanged this year and change next. Got to keep up to date with the news if you are going to make comments on this subject. Leafs will have 3 million in cap space in the given scenario.

Concensus package:

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

For

Luongo
Burke fired the next day!

The Marlies leading scorer (and 2009 1st round pick), the leafs current 1st line centre (for better or worse) and a 22 year old 6' 5" undervalued centre on top of a defense prospect... for Luongo?

For a team that seems to be ok with letting the entire world know they don't want him anymore, some of these proposed trades don't really seem to make sense

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Of course you think it's not a bad deal, because it's a bunch of trash being dealt for an elite top 5 goalie. If Burke does that he should get GM of the Year and Gillis should be fired.
Of course you think its a bunch of trash because its not a first liner and high potential young player for your "top 5" goalie.


I get it, I do. You're not interested in dealing Luongo for anything other team's fans consider reasonable. Fair enough.

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12-10-2012, 10:00 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Of course you think its a bunch of trash because its not a first liner and high potential young player for your "top 5" goalie.


I get it, I do. You're not interested in dealing Luongo for anything other team's fans consider reasonable. Fair enough.
A guy who would be a mediocre 3rd line center and a bunch of B prospects isn't good value for Luongo.

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12-10-2012, 10:05 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by tmlhockeyfan View Post
Lol that's huge overpayment.
im just wondering what you think the value is.

Im not an expert on Bozak, but 47 points as a center playing with an scoring winger isnt very good, unless the center is elite defensively. Unless Gillis see's something in Bozak (and he is looking for size and speed), I cant imagine the appeal. Our team manages icetime far differently, with Henrik and Kesler above him on the depth chart.

Kadri. Might make the nhl and get some points. Also might not. Canucks have ridiculous fitness demands, so regardless of skill, that is a concern in this case.

Colborne/Blacker. I know nothing about them, but do these project to be players that would crack a top team anytime soon?


So regardless of how good you think this package is, or could be, can you see how its just not appealing from the Canuck organizations perspective.

And before you say 'but Luongos contract is an albatross', thats not how the canucks view it, and he will only be moved for SOMETHING that fits exactly what the organization is looking for. And this isnt just my opinion, this is how Gillis works. He's explained it and stuck to it from his first day on the job.

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12-10-2012, 10:08 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
im just wondering what you think the value is.

Im not an expert on Bozak, but 47 points as a center playing with an scoring winger isnt very good, unless the center is elite defensively. Unless Gillis see's something in Bozak (and he is looking for size and speed), I cant imagine the appeal. Our team manages icetime far differently, with Henrik and Kesler above him on the depth chart.

Kadri. Might make the nhl and get some points. Also might not. Canucks have ridiculous fitness demands, so regardless of skill, that is a concern in this case.

Colborne/Blacker. I know nothing about them, but do these project to be players that would crack a top team anytime soon?


So regardless of how good you think this package is, or could be, can you see how its just not appealing from the Canuck organizations perspective.

And before you say 'but Luongos contract is an albatross', thats not how the canucks view it, and he will only be moved for SOMETHING that fits exactly what the organization is looking for. And this isnt just my opinion, this is how Gillis works. He's explained it and stuck to it from his first day on the job.
Great post, coming from a Leafs fan.

Again, I wonder if there is a trade where both fan bases will be happy.

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Old
12-10-2012, 10:09 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Is that ++ someone like Gardiner? If all you are talking about is Kadri and a 1st it wouldn't be good enough for me. The Leafs just don't have any prospects that really excite me so I wouldn't be interested at all in a package centered around Kulemin.
I think Kadri desrves more credit than you give him, and a 1st is a valuable item to have, especially if we want to target star players at the deadline. I'd obviously prefer something centred around Lupul, but I still think we'd be better off trading Luongo for a Kulemin/Kadri/1st package than keeping him. Not ideal, but it's still a solid package.

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12-10-2012, 10:10 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
A guy who would be a mediocre 3rd line center and a bunch of B prospects isn't good value for Luongo.
Kay.

Gotcha.

Leafs aren't getting him then? Cool.

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12-10-2012, 10:12 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Kay.

Gotcha.

Leafs aren't getting him then? Cool.
I'm fine with that. I'd be perfectly happy dealing him to another team that will recognize the value of an elite goalie, or just keeping him and crying our way to another President's trophy. Tough situation to be in

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12-10-2012, 10:17 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
im just wondering what you think the value is.

Im not an expert on Bozak, but 47 points as a center playing with an scoring winger isnt very good, unless the center is elite defensively. Unless Gillis see's something in Bozak (and he is looking for size and speed), I cant imagine the appeal. Our team manages icetime far differently, with Henrik and Kesler above him on the depth chart.

Kadri. Might make the nhl and get some points. Also might not. Canucks have ridiculous fitness demands, so regardless of skill, that is a concern in this case.

Colborne/Blacker. I know nothing about them, but do these project to be players that would crack a top team anytime soon?


So regardless of how good you think this package is, or could be, can you see how its just not appealing from the Canuck organizations perspective.

And before you say 'but Luongos contract is an albatross', thats not how the canucks view it, and he will only be moved for SOMETHING that fits exactly what the organization is looking for. And this isnt just my opinion, this is how Gillis works. He's explained it and stuck to it from his first day on the job.
Ding ding ding.

Quoted so people have to gloss over this 3 times now to miss out on this logical, well thought out post.

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Old
12-10-2012, 10:18 PM
  #717
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I'm fine with that. I'd be perfectly happy dealing him to another team that will recognize the value of an elite goalie, or just keeping him and crying our way to another President's trophy. Tough situation to be in
Nope, its a good idea.

I don't think its practical because of the playoffs last year but hey, could be.

Guess we'll find out.

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12-10-2012, 10:18 PM
  #718
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Great post, coming from a Leafs fan.

Again, I wonder if there is a trade where both fan bases will be happy.
yeah I dont see how its possible, as the nucks want immediate help, not futures, and the 2 biggest holes in the lineup are 3rd line shut down C, and a two way right side D.

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12-10-2012, 10:20 PM
  #719
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Sorry, when i said stats, I mean stats, like all of them, not just points.
Right. Sorry, I must have forgotten that you can't judge talent by watching players play. Just stat watching. Don't know what came over me there. My mistake.

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12-10-2012, 10:21 PM
  #720
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I'm fine with that. I'd be perfectly happy dealing him to another team that will recognize the value of an elite goalie, or just keeping him and crying our way to another President's trophy. Tough situation to be in
This doesn't make sense, if you have two "elite" goaltenders, and you win a lot, why not just keep him? Do you think Rask or Thomas likes to sit on the bench as much as they do? Or Rinne and Mason? Fluery and Vokoun? Elliot and Halak? Quick and Bernier?

No, but if they're winning it doesn't matter. No fan wants to trade someone on their team that they call elite. It doesn't make sense.

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12-10-2012, 10:25 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
yeah I dont see how its possible, as the nucks want immediate help, not futures, and the 2 biggest holes in the lineup are 3rd line shut down C, and a two way right side D.
Wrong. Our biggest hole is our 2nd line RW.

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12-10-2012, 10:33 PM
  #722
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Wrong. Our biggest hole is our 2nd line RW.
whats sad is that Burrows is even a natural left winger, and we try to jam Booth on right too, when he's a left. Hansen is our only natural right winger it seems.

On D its just as bad tho. Bieksa and Tanev are our only rights. We just try to make guys like Ballard/Rome/Alberts play right, but they just cant do it.

Do other teams have this kind of problem?

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12-10-2012, 10:36 PM
  #723
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Consensus from who?

Dont believe Blacker or Colborne are targets....actually should say I hope they aren't.

Why would Vancouver want these guys?

I have a hard enough time figuring out why Bozak (UFA to be) and Kadri (not waiver exempt after this year) are targets.

These packages are semi-fun to debate (only because we've got no other hockey to talk about), but they don't mean much.
Blacker is good defensively, decent size, right side, good skater. Quality prospect and good fit. Colborne center with size, fits mould Gillis wants team to get bigger. Good buy low project. Many fans from both sides have agreed to this deal.

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12-10-2012, 10:37 PM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
This doesn't make sense, if you have two "elite" goaltenders, and you win a lot, why not just keep him? Do you think Rask or Thomas likes to sit on the bench as much as they do? Or Rinne and Mason? Fluery and Vokoun? Elliot and Halak? Quick and Bernier?

No, but if they're winning it doesn't matter. No fan wants to trade someone on their team that they call elite. It doesn't make sense.
Because it's convenient to trade one of them and address a hole elsewhere? How does that not make sense? It doesn't make sense to deal Luongo for the crap that's been offered on here, but if we get a deal that makes sense we'd be all for it.

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12-10-2012, 10:37 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
This doesn't make sense, if you have two "elite" goaltenders, and you win a lot, why not just keep him? Do you think Rask or Thomas likes to sit on the bench as much as they do? Or Rinne and Mason? Fluery and Vokoun? Elliot and Halak? Quick and Bernier?

No, but if they're winning it doesn't matter. No fan wants to trade someone on their team that they call elite. It doesn't make sense.
Here is the sense from the point of view of the nucks. Luongo is elite. There is no decline, there wont be. The thing is, they also believe that Schneider has arrived, is dominant, and is ready to be the man. But Luongo is the man. Every combo you listed is a Starter and a top notch backup. Thats not what the Canucks think they have.

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