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Old
12-10-2012, 11:59 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Grabovski isn't a typical 3rd line player (he's more of a top 6 player). In my roster I have him on the 3rd line though to beef up scoring on that line. The problem I have is when people start suggesting going after Bozak + crap as our solution.
For this very reason I would be much happier getting a Grabovski type player back than a Lupul type player

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12-11-2012, 12:03 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
And having a potential back up goalie in ages 38-42 that carries a 5.3 million dollar cap hit is great value and excellent cap management. Not to mention the uninsured value of approx 13 million dollars in salary is great value for teams generating lower revenues? Of course there is this notion of burrying Lou's cap hit when he is older, which will no longer be allowed.

It's one thing to disagree, but never once did I say nor has anyone been called "retarded". I have a hard time seeing anyone over the ages of 12 using that terminology. The pattern is there, some posters making things up to push their agenda, as well as make believe name calling. All this information is readily available to anyone who choses to search for it. Very few teams will be willing to take on that contract, no question about. Continue dreaming up as many scenarios as you like, the facts are the facts, and with how much Nucks fans value him, leadership etc, it would clearly be in the best interest for the Nucks organization to keep him, and his contract.

You seem very educated on Luongos contract.

What if he retires?

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12-11-2012, 12:11 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Right, because that team did so well in last years playoffs

Kassian hasn't even looked good in the AHL this year, and you want to put him in the top 6. Ouch.

If all we get is a 3rd line C for Luongo, and ignore our huge hole in the top 6, then Gillis has not done his job.
You know Kassian has looked good, thats dressed up for dramatics.

Just hasn't been consistent.

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12-11-2012, 12:15 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
For this very reason I would be much happier getting a Grabovski type player back than a Lupul type player
If were looking for scoring on the 3C, why not go after Tim Connolly?

Costs you very little to acquire (whereas Bozak/Grabo lilely cost a premium).

Hes averaged a 56 point pace over these last 3 seasons, so if he can stay healthy (in limited 3rd line minutes) he provides some nice bottom 6 scoring.

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12-11-2012, 12:19 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
If were looking for scoring on the 3C, why not go after Tim Connolly?

Costs you very little to acquire (whereas Bozak/Grabo lilely cost a premium).

Hes averaged a 56 point pace over these last 3 seasons, so if he can stay healthy (in limited 3rd line minutes) he provides some nice bottom 6 scoring.
He's an upcoming UFA and overpaid. I don't know what kind of physicality/two-way game he has, but I wouldn't be too adverse to taking him, but he doesn't hold much, if any value.

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12-11-2012, 12:22 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
If were looking for scoring on the 3C, why not go after Tim Connolly?

Costs you very little to acquire (whereas Bozak/Grabo lilely cost a premium).

Hes averaged a 56 point pace over these last 3 seasons, so if he can stay healthy (in limited 3rd line minutes) he provides some nice bottom 6 scoring.
Because scoring isn't the only thing we're looking for in a 3C, but it's the only thing he provides.

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12-11-2012, 12:22 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
He's an upcoming UFA and overpaid. I don't know what kind of physicality/two-way game he has, but I wouldn't be too adverse to taking him, but he doesn't hold much, if any value .
bolded = exactly.

Hes not a physical guy but he has a strong defensive game.

Could center the 2nd PP unit and wouldnt be a player you shelter.

Has averaged 52 points/season in his NHL career.

Carries a high cap hit, but its done at years end.

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12-11-2012, 12:23 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Because scoring isn't the only thing we're looking for in a 3C, but it's the only thing he provides.
Hes strong defensively. Not a super physical player, but a strong 2-way game with solid offense.

Buy-low moneyball type guy.

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12-11-2012, 12:27 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Hes strong defensively. Not a super physical player, but a strong 2-way game with solid offense.

Buy-low moneyball type guy.
I think strong is an overstatement. At best I'd say he's capable defensively. Personally I'm not a big fan, and with 0 goals in his last 29 playoff games I'm not exactly sure he'd be a big help to our offense come April/May.

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12-11-2012, 12:32 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I think strong is an overstatement. At best I'd say he's capable defensively. Personally I'm not a big fan, and with 0 goals in his last 29 playoff games I'm not exactly sure he'd be a big help to our offense come April/May.
Probably in the same ballpark as Bozak defensively.

His career .64 points/game playoff pace is on pace with the rest of his career.

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12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Hes strong defensively. Not a super physical player, but a strong 2-way game with solid offense.

Buy-low moneyball type guy.
I understand the thought process with connolly, but arguably the reason why Vancouver hasn't had the playoff success of other elite teams like it is that it is heavily based on skill and not enough on toughness. If I want to recieve a third line center in a trade for an elite goaltender...I want him to be able to play some tough minutes and pound the other team into oblivion. Connolly, while skilled and with offensive upside, is not those things. And his offensive upside is not enough to make up for those holes in his game. Kulemin, to me anyways, would be a good return. He did just have a 7g season...but he is one removed from a thirty and I think his style of play would fit with Kesler quite well. Lupul would be another option, but defensively he's not there and is not physical at all, however, his offensive upside makes up it.

I think if Vancouver is going to get to the cup this season...or the next....or whatever, that second line winger needs to be seen to as well as obtaining a third line center that can slot into Kesler's spot in a deep playoff run in case he gets injured. Vancouver has a glut of tweeners, and what it really needs is two more top six guys. You can get one for sure from the Luongo trade, and the other one will have to be picked up elsewhere...or perhaps Mason Raymond has a rebound season, like I expect him too.

From Florida, I would be exoecting a deal to be made around Versteeg. From Toronto around one of Grabo(albeit hes overpaid), Kulemin or Lupul. From Edmonton, Hemsky or Gagner with the + being that first or MPS. I like MPS in this case. From Winnipeg, Little.

You get the idea.

I liked how Booth looked playing last year, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him upgraded as well.

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12-11-2012, 12:47 AM
  #762
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Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski, Kulemin, Frattin, Gardiner, Gunnarson, Phanuef, Biggs, Rielly, 1st Rounders

Mclement, Franson, Blacker, Finn, Percy, McKegg, Liles, Ross, Kadri

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Steckel, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Komarov,

Red = Won't be traded for Luongo

Orange = Players they probably will trade

Green = Lets make a deal



The problem is that all the players Vancouver would want for Luongo are in the red text, so basically the leafs, at this point, don't have the excess of quality players required to get Luongo without putting themselves in a bad position for the future.

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12-11-2012, 12:53 AM
  #763
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I don't think Frattin, Bozak, Biggs, Kulemin, and maybe Gunnarsson are completely off the table. If it's something reasonable..In fact, a Cox report stated they were talking with Bozak as a centrepiece.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:56 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Probably in the same ballpark as Bozak defensively.

His career .64 points/game playoff pace is on pace with the rest of his career.
I'm not too interested in Bozak either. And Connolly's numbers from 6-7 seasons ago don't really interest me. I don't see how they're relevant to the player he is today. He wouldn't be able to benefit from playing with Drury and Briere on our third line, so I don't think he'd be able to perform at that level here.


Last edited by StringerBell: 12-11-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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12-11-2012, 12:57 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Beer Me View Post
Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski, Kulemin, Frattin, Gardiner, Gunnarson, Phanuef, Biggs, Rielly, 1st Rounders

Mclement, Franson, Blacker, Finn, Percy, McKegg, Liles, Ross, Kadri

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Steckel, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Komarov,

Red = Won't be traded for Luongo

Orange = Players they probably will trade

Green = Lets make a deal



The problem is that all the players Vancouver would want for Luongo are in the red text, so basically the leafs, at this point, don't have the excess of quality players required to get Luongo without putting themselves in a bad position for the future.
The players on green and orange are table scraps and may work for Bernier from LA but not for an elite top 5 goaltender.

Kulemin
Liles
Kadri

For

Luongo and Raymond

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:57 AM
  #766
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I'm confident a Luongo trade will be announced before the season starts.. whenever that is.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:03 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I understand the thought process with connolly, but arguably the reason why Vancouver hasn't had the playoff success of other elite teams like it is that it is heavily based on skill and not enough on toughness. If I want to recieve a third line center in a trade for an elite goaltender...I want him to be able to play some tough minutes and pound the other team into oblivion. Connolly, while skilled and with offensive upside, is not those things. And his offensive upside is not enough to make up for those holes in his game. Kulemin, to me anyways, would be a good return. He did just have a 7g season...but he is one removed from a thirty and I think his style of play would fit with Kesler quite well. Lupul would be another option, but defensively he's not there and is not physical at all, however, his offensive upside makes up it.

I think if Vancouver is going to get to the cup this season...or the next....or whatever, that second line winger needs to be seen to as well as obtaining a third line center that can slot into Kesler's spot in a deep playoff run in case he gets injured. Vancouver has a glut of tweeners, and what it really needs is two more top six guys. You can get one for sure from the Luongo trade, and the other one will have to be picked up elsewhere...or perhaps Mason Raymond has a rebound season, like I expect him too.

From Florida, I would be exoecting a deal to be made around Versteeg. From Toronto around one of Grabo(albeit hes overpaid), Kulemin or Lupul. From Edmonton, Hemsky or Gagner with the + being that first or MPS. I like MPS in this case. From Winnipeg, Little.

You get the idea.

I liked how Booth looked playing last year, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him upgraded as well.
Fair enough, and all good points.

However imo hes sort of the same idea as a Chris Higgins.
Extremely low value (could likely be had for next to nothing).

Hes shown to produce like a 1st line player, but has had injury issues and a poor season last year.

He may not illustrate the "bigger and younger" approach Gillis has mentioned, But he gives us a guy to QB our 2nd PP unit.

Could possibly be used as a top-6 playmaker, and provide secondary scoring.

He may not be the grittiest player, but you could always swap out Raymond for Kassian to provide size/grit into the bottom 6.

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12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
  #768
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I don't think Frattin, Bozak, Biggs, Kulemin, and maybe Gunnarsson are completely off the table. If it's something reasonable..
Besides that fact that I was almost positive that Kulemin was a lock for second line duties next year, Toronto will need his physical and defense presence (along with Frattins) on the ice or else the line up would look pretty soft.

Can't see Gunnarson going either and if they trade Bozak, who will centre the first line? Isn't the point of getting Luongo is to be a competetive team? Losing those pieces would hurt them pretty bad (except for Biggs who I thought you guys valued more.)

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12-11-2012, 01:09 AM
  #769
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I'm not too interested in Bozak either. And Connolly's numbers from 6-7 seasons ago don't really interest me. I don't see how they're relevant to the player he is today. He wouldn't be able to benefit from playing with Drury and Briere on our third line, so I don't think he'd be able to perform at that level here.
His last 2 seasons in Buffalo were 62 point pace... Where would you find that kind of production for what Connolly would cost?

I am not sayin he is the ideal candidate, or our savior. Just a good buy low candidate.

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12-11-2012, 01:10 AM
  #770
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Besides that fact that I was almost positive that Kulemin was a lock for second line duties next year, Toronto will need his physical and defense presence (along with Frattins) on the ice or else the line up would look pretty soft.

Can't see Gunnarson going either and if they trade Bozak, who will centre the first line? Isn't the point of getting Luongo is to be a competetive team? Losing those pieces would hurt them pretty bad (except for Biggs who I thought you guys valued more.)
Could try Tim Connolly, or someone else via trade. I don't think those players are off the table (Gunnarsson is on the fence for me but I bet most Leaf fans wouldn't consider trading him), unless Vancouver is asking for an unreasonable '+'. They are apparently working off from Bozak as the centre piece, from Cox's report (same report that stated Gillis' initial demand of Gardiner, Bozak, etc, etc).

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12-11-2012, 01:14 AM
  #771
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His last 2 seasons in Buffalo were 62 point pace... Where would you find that kind of production for what Connolly would cost?

I am not sayin he is the ideal candidate, or our savior. Just a good buy low candidate.
He'd be a good buy low candidate for a team like Chicago with Toews on the first line and Bolland on the third. That way he could slot onto the 2nd and solely be relied on to create offense for Hossa/Sharp. On Vancouver he would be looking at a much different role; one I personally don't think he's well suited for.

I would however rather get him cheap than overpay for Bozak, if that's any consolation to you and your moneypuck philosophy.

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12-11-2012, 01:18 AM
  #772
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Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski, Kulemin, Frattin, Gardiner, Gunnarson, Phanuef, Biggs, Rielly, 1st Rounders

Mclement, Franson, Blacker, Finn, Percy, McKegg, Liles, Ross, Kadri

Connolly, MacArthur, Lombardi, Steckel, Komisarek, Colborne, Ashton, Komarov,

Red = Won't be traded for Luongo

Orange = Players they probably will trade

Green = Lets make a deal



The problem is that all the players Vancouver would want for Luongo are in the red text, so basically the leafs, at this point, don't have the excess of quality players required to get Luongo without putting themselves in a bad position for the future.
Then there is no deal, Gardiner, and (Reilly or JVR) has to be part of the deal to get Luongo. We will attempt to sign Connolly, Bozak or Lupul when they reached UFA, if there is a need for them.


Last edited by Vancouver_2010: 12-11-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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12-11-2012, 01:22 AM
  #773
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He'd be a good buy low candidate for a team like Chicago with Toews on the first line and Bolland on the third. That way he could slot onto the 2nd and solely be relied on to create offense for Hossa/Sharp. On Vancouver he would be looking at a much different role; one I personally don't think he's well suited for.

I would however rather get him cheap than overpay for Bozak, if that's any consolation to you and your moneypuck philosophy.
I feel like Bozak is an overachieving 3rd liner, and Connolly is an underperforming 1st/2nd line center.

I dont neccessary like Connolly, but like you said I would rather buy low on him than pay a premium on Bozak.

Ie I would rather have a package with Connolly as a throw in/cap dump than a package where Bozak is the key piece coming our way.

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12-11-2012, 01:22 AM
  #774
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Then there is no deal, Gardiner, and (Reilly or JVR) has to be part of the deal to get Luongo.
That was the message I was trying to portray... I just don't see a deal happening between the two clubs unless another team is involved or you guys take something like MacArthur + Connolly + prospect + 2nd

Luongo won't fetch you that much by the way. Don't get your hopes up.

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12-11-2012, 01:26 AM
  #775
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That was the message I was trying to portray... I just don't see a deal happening between the two clubs unless another team is involved or you guys take something like MacArthur + Connolly + prospect + 2nd

Luongo won't fetch you that much by the way. Don't get your hopes up.
If there isn't much demand for Luongo then we will keep him. I personally would not want Connolly, Bozak or Lupul in a trade, why trade for them when you can just wait a few months and tried to sign them?

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