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Old
12-11-2012, 12:19 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
At which point they still had Kronwall, White and Quincey.
Smith is better than Quincey offensively. Try again.

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12-11-2012, 12:21 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
Perception =/= Reality. Basic logistical skill. Gotta realize that just because a guy acts a certain way, doesn't mean he IS a businessman.
No, of course not. But when a guy acts a certain way, it can show that he isn't a businessman.

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12-11-2012, 12:21 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Smith is better than Quincey offensively. Try again.
Yeah, that 2:21 PP TOI/game just makes him absolutely horrible.

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12-11-2012, 12:25 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Yeah, that 2:21 PP TOI/game just makes him absolutely horrible.
You mean the time he racked up in Colorado right?

That's about the fifth time your lack of education on the situation has gotten the best of you.

My advice would be to stop now. Of course, I'm sure you wont take it.

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12-11-2012, 12:26 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
No, they didn't. They said they liked him and saw big things in his future, which essentially every GM/coach/owner says about their top prospects.

What else are they going to say?
No that isn't what Babcock has said. Holland also said it was made for ice time and that Smith's suspension hurt some of that flexability. Along with the fact he had options and other guys didn't have them. Honestly I don't know how Gardiner made the Leafs I don't pretend to. I don't know who he beat out and I don't care what Burke said. However, I know exactly what happened here and have told you, keep your head buried in the sand but this was covered in depth and talked about a lot around Detroit. You can either pretend they said something they didn't or know the facts enjoy either story. It is clear you have trouble admitting when you're wrong, Babcock outright stated he made the team. He even one step farther and said he was disappointed because he thought he made the team two years ago. Which is when everyone got really upset about it. The Smith situation is actually the one reason people in Detroit think Holland and Babcock's working relationship might not be what it once was as they have argued publically about it.

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12-11-2012, 12:29 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
You mean the time he racked up in Colorado right?

That's about the fifth time your lack of education on the situation has gotten the best of you.

My advice would be to stop now. Of course, I'm sure you wont take it.
He racked it up all in Colorado?

Hmm... Wonder why Detroit has 4 defenders with significant PP time in the playoffs then, including Quincey with 1:52.

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12-11-2012, 12:31 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
No that isn't what Babcock has said. Holland also said it was made for ice time and that Smith's suspension hurt some of that flexability. Along with the fact he had options and other guys didn't have them. Honestly I don't know how Gardiner made the Leafs I don't pretend to. I don't know who he beat out and I don't care what Burke said. However, I know exactly what happened here and have told you, keep your head buried in the sand but this was covered in depth and talked about a lot around Detroit. You can either pretend they said something they didn't or know the facts enjoy either story. It is clear you have trouble admitting when you're wrong, Babcock outright stated he made the team. He even one step farther and said he was disappointed because he thought he made the team two years ago. Which is when everyone got really upset about it. The Smith situation is actually the one reason people in Detroit think Holland and Babcock's working relationship might not be what it once was as they have argued publically about it.
They can say he made the team all they like, but until he is actually on the team, he hasn't made the team. That is simple fact.

Though if Babcock keeps saying he made the team, surely he shouldn't be counted as a prospect anymore, eh?

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12-11-2012, 12:32 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
He racked it up all in Colorado?

Hmm... Wonder why Detroit has 4 defenders with significant PP time in the playoffs then, including Quincey with 1:52.
Due to the fact that there were a ******** of penalties called in that series.

But for somebody who *****es and moans about Smith's 14 game sample you sure don't have a problem using a five game sample.

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12-11-2012, 12:36 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Due to the fact that there were a ******** of penalties called in that series.

But for somebody who *****es and moans about Smith's 14 game sample you sure don't have a problem using a five game sample.
Multiple sources state Quincey was used on the 2nd PP unit after going to Detroit too.

Sample size for points and play is entirely different from a sample size for showing that a guy played on the PP. It is showing you that you are full of crap when you say Quincey didn't play on the PP on Detroit.

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12-11-2012, 12:44 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Multiple sources state Quincey was used on the 2nd PP unit after going to Detroit too.

Sample size for points and play is entirely different from a sample size for showing that a guy played on the PP. It is showing you that you are full of crap when you say Quincey didn't play on the PP on Detroit.
Not really when all guys were healthy.

Point units were

Lidstrom - White
Kronwall - Hudler (man was that a bad idea)

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12-11-2012, 01:02 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Not really when all guys were healthy.

Point units were

Lidstrom - White
Kronwall - Hudler (man was that a bad idea)
Actually, yes really. It's hard to find PP time in portions of seasons (though I know Quincey had some), but the fact that 4 defenders, including Quincey, had significant PP time in the playoffs shows that Quincey was used as a PP defender.

Detroit has used forwards on the point in the past (though many sources say Zetterberg), but they are not opposed to using 4 defenders on the powerplay units, and there is no reason to think that Smith wouldn't have gotten time there.

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12-11-2012, 01:07 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Multiple sources state Quincey was used on the 2nd PP unit after going to Detroit too.

Sample size for points and play is entirely different from a sample size for showing that a guy played on the PP. It is showing you that you are full of crap when you say Quincey didn't play on the PP on Detroit.
I can't believe I just read though 9 pages of this. You honestly have no clue.

Basically the whole thread has gone: You make up something on Smith. Multiple people prove you wrong. You counter with more bull****. They prove you wrong again. You refuse to admit it, so make up something that is even more false, doesn't matter if you use a double standard or not. They prove you wrong and point out the double standard. You ignore the parts where you are obviously wrong and make up some other bull**** on one of the other parts. It's not just wing fans, either. I can't wait for Smith to have an awesome rookie year, whenever that is (I mean the lockout, not him not making the team). Hopefully you stick around so you can eat all of the bull**** you've said in this thread.

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12-11-2012, 01:20 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I can't believe I just read though 9 pages of this. You honestly have no clue.

Basically the whole thread has gone: You make up something on Smith. Multiple people prove you wrong. You counter with more bull****. They prove you wrong again. You refuse to admit it, so make up something that is even more false, doesn't matter if you use a double standard or not. They prove you wrong and point out the double standard. You ignore the parts where you are obviously wrong and make up some other bull**** on one of the other parts. It's not just wing fans, either. I can't wait for Smith to have an awesome rookie year, whenever that is (I mean the lockout, not him not making the team). Hopefully you stick around so you can eat all of the bull**** you've said in this thread.
Nothing I have said has been made up, and all points against me have been addressed.

Whether or not Smith has a good rookie campaign and/or career is irrelevant. I hope he does, but his hype based on his results to-date, are way off.

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12-11-2012, 01:30 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Nothing I have said has been made up, and all points against me have been addressed.

Whether or not Smith has a good rookie campaign and/or career is irrelevant. I hope he does, but his hype based on his results to-date, are way off.
He has excelled at every level he's been at. But because he wasn't on the team last year, he probably sucks, right?

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12-11-2012, 01:31 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Actually, yes really. It's hard to find PP time in portions of seasons (though I know Quincey had some), but the fact that 4 defenders, including Quincey, had significant PP time in the playoffs shows that Quincey was used as a PP defender.

Detroit has used forwards on the point in the past (though many sources say Zetterberg), but they are not opposed to using 4 defenders on the powerplay units, and there is no reason to think that Smith wouldn't have gotten time there.

I have never in my entire time of following the Wings and since I don't really miss games it would seem unlikely that anybody has seen Zetterberg on the point. Maybe on 5 on 3's but I cannot remember it there either to be totally honest. On the halfwall absolutely, but that playing the point just isn't true. Hudler moved back to the point when Samuelsson left the first time. They have been the forward options. He also will play down low or as the person across from Datsyuk drifting to the middle, but he does not play the point. Eventually Jarnkrok will play that point role and we can all stop complaining about it because he is actually good at it. Although we will see because at that point Kronwall, Sproul, Ouellet, Smith should probably be close to regulars also. He just is so good at it that will probably continue to happen especially if Babcock is around since he loves using a forward. In any event it isn't Zetterberg nor is it ever going to be Zetterberg.

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12-11-2012, 01:40 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
He has excelled at every level he's been at. But because he wasn't on the team last year, he probably sucks, right?
He has not excelled. He has been above-average while being of an older age.

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12-11-2012, 01:41 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I have never in my entire time of following the Wings and since I don't really miss games it would seem unlikely that anybody has seen Zetterberg on the point. Maybe on 5 on 3's but I cannot remember it there either to be totally honest. On the halfwall absolutely, but that playing the point just isn't true. Hudler moved back to the point when Samuelsson left the first time. They have been the forward options. He also will play down low or as the person across from Datsyuk drifting to the middle, but he does not play the point. Eventually Jarnkrok will play that point role and we can all stop complaining about it because he is actually good at it. Although we will see because at that point Kronwall, Sproul, Ouellet, Smith should probably be close to regulars also. He just is so good at it that will probably continue to happen especially if Babcock is around since he loves using a forward. In any event it isn't Zetterberg nor is it ever going to be Zetterberg.
That's fine. It doesn't really change anything.

I had never really seen Zetterberg there either. I just mentioned it because I found a couple places that mentioned it.

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12-11-2012, 01:47 AM
  #218
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That's fine. It doesn't really change anything.

I had never really seen Zetterberg there either. I just mentioned it because I found a couple places that mentioned it.
Other than the fact it is another completely made up thing you're trying to pass off as facts, sure. Also I am doubtful this has been mentioned in any place. At no point in this entire thread have you mentioned something that hasn't been immediately refuted by people that actually follow the team and watch the games. It just continues to hurt whatever points you're trying to make.

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12-11-2012, 01:53 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Other than the fact it is another completely made up thing you're trying to pass off as facts, sure. Also I am doubtful this has been mentioned in any place. At no point in this entire thread have you mentioned something that hasn't been immediately refuted by people that actually follow the team and watch the games. It just continues to hurt whatever points you're trying to make.
Nowhere did I state with 100% certainty that Zetterberg was the point-man. I brought it up because my source disputed your source, which I then went on to say was meaningless anyway, since official facts and statistics dispute both sources and prove what I have been saying all along, that Smith would have got powerplay time on the Wings last year if he is at the level you all claim him to be.

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12-11-2012, 01:57 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
It was not jam-packed at all last season. In fact, they traded for another defenceman last season and wasted a 1st-round pick to do it.

Not to mention signed another one in the off-season. And signed one last off-season too.

And yes, if Smith is as good as his hype suggests, he would have been able to make the NHL by now.
THIS . . .

detroit fans wont like it.. but your spot on

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12-11-2012, 06:39 AM
  #221
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THIS . . .

detroit fans wont like it.. but your spot on
First of all it's you're (contraction of you are) not your (possessive). And as it's been pointed out repeated throughout this thread by Detroit fans and neutral fans, he's most definitively wrong.

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12-11-2012, 07:00 AM
  #222
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THIS . . .

detroit fans wont like it.. but your spot on
Defenders take longer to develop, and Detroit has been known for taking time to develop their prospects the right way. Using his lack of NHL experience thus far as an argument for why he isn't good is a terribly uneducated thing to do. He played in the show at the end of last year, and if there wasn't a lockout right now, you can bet he'd be playing there now. This kid's gonna be good, I have no doubt.

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12-11-2012, 08:56 AM
  #223
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Defenders take longer to develop, and Detroit has been known for taking time to develop their prospects the right way. Using his lack of NHL experience thus far as an argument for why he isn't good is a terribly uneducated thing to do. He played in the show at the end of last year, and if there wasn't a lockout right now, you can bet he'd be playing there now. This kid's gonna be good, I have no doubt.
You're spot on. Here, everyone is assuming that Ken Holland has the same mentality as Burke in regards to developping young players. Other than Kronwall, there hasn't been a defender this highly touted in the Red Wings' system for a while. Just like Kronwall, he's being seasoned ; Kronwall had 4 years in the SEL, then two year in the AHL ( he split time in the AHL (25 games) and the NHL (20 games), then one full year in the AHL, where he won the AHL D of the year (IIRC).

Smith played 3 years in college (Wisconsin), one full year in the AHL, the one year where he split time in the AHL / NHL, then this year, where he was supposed to play full-time minutes.

Bottom line, Smith is following the Kronwall line of development, he'll be ready when this god-awful lockout ends. Short of a full-time #1 or 2 D who's under 25, he won't be moved.

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12-11-2012, 09:34 AM
  #224
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You're spot on. Here, everyone is assuming that Ken Holland has the same mentality as Burke in regards to developping young players. Other than Kronwall, there hasn't been a defender this highly touted in the Red Wings' system for a while. Just like Kronwall, he's being seasoned ; Kronwall had 4 years in the SEL, then two year in the AHL ( he split time in the AHL (25 games) and the NHL (20 games), then one full year in the AHL, where he won the AHL D of the year (IIRC).

Smith played 3 years in college (Wisconsin), one full year in the AHL, the one year where he split time in the AHL / NHL, then this year, where he was supposed to play full-time minutes.

Bottom line, Smith is following the Kronwall line of development, he'll be ready when this god-awful lockout ends. Short of a full-time #1 or 2 D who's under 25, he won't be moved.
I love Smith but I'd fly from Finland to drive Smith to the airport if that would mean getting someone like Weber.

But yeah that ain't realistic, though.

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12-11-2012, 12:53 PM
  #225
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Not really when all guys were healthy.

Point units were

Lidstrom - White
Kronwall - Hudler (man was that a bad idea)
I gave up on this last night. He talks in circles, beats the same dead horse several times, and then defeats his own arguments.

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