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Old
12-10-2012, 08:56 PM
  #76
Sojourn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but I don't think losing Getzlaf makes us more likely to trade Ryan.
I agree, unless it motivates Murray to try to package Ryan for a #1 center... but I still don't see that as a good result. Anaheim still ends up moving a great goal scorer, one that they need. That would basically be a case of Murray feeling forced to move a player the Ducks want/need to plug a more significant hole.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that if Getzlaf wasn't re-signing that moving Ryan suddenly made more sense. Getzlaf's contract status is all about Getzlaf.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't know, there seems to be some odd belief that the Ducks are in rebuild mode. I think they're still a good team
While I think we could go into something like a rebuild if Getz and/or Perry walk, I feel like the acquisition phase would be almost finished before we even started.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:08 PM
  #78
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As good as Seguin is, this doesn't make much sense for Anaheim right now. They can't just let go of a very good winger in Ryan and captain in a deal where one player hasn't even started playing pro hockey.

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12-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlesio14 View Post
Seguin >>> Getzlaf
Hamilton and Ryan are difficult. Hamilton may be tempting for Anaheim, but he hasn't necessarily proven himself to be a quality NHL player.
So now, not only is Seguin better than Getzlaf, but you're saying he's '>>>' better? (3x better??)

Do tell...I'd like to hear the explanation as to how he's not only better, but how he's '>>>' better than a proven, elite Center who up until last season was considered a top Centerman in the league that was coming off of 4 straight PPG seasons.

I think Seguin is a great young talent and don't think this trade makes sense for either team, but your rating of the two is crazy.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:53 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlesio14 View Post
Seguin >>> Getzlaf
Hamilton and Ryan are difficult. Hamilton may be tempting for Anaheim, but he hasn't necessarily proven himself to be a quality NHL player.
In what world is Hamilton in the same conversation as Ryan? He has never played 1 ****ing game in the NHL and Bobby has scored 30 goals every year he has played in the NHL.

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Old
12-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlesio14 View Post
Seguin >>> Getzlaf
Hamilton and Ryan are difficult. Hamilton may be tempting for Anaheim, but he hasn't necessarily proven himself to be a quality NHL player.
Insert facepalm gif here

Call me the next time Seguin hits 90+ points and has 4 consecutive PPG seasons if you want to be taken seriously. Maybe to Boston, this young center with great potential may have more VALUE, but better? Give me a break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Seguin has proven he can outscore Ryan and Getzlaf. It may have been an off year for Getzlaf, but Boston would have to assume he returns to being a ppg player and that he would re-sign with the team.

You are right, teams aren't going to assume anything and they would both keep their guys.
No he didn't prove that he can out-score Getzlaf in a good year. He proved that he could outscore him by a bit in his worst year since his rookie season.....actually he had a better PPG in his rookie year, so Seguin proved that he can outscore Getzlaf in his worst possible year.

Prior to that Getzlaf was top 9 in the league in PPG. We're not sure what happened but clearly something was off.

Ryan? I'll give it to you on that one that Seguin will probably end up being a better point producer than Ryan, but Ryan's goal scoring is invaluable. There's only one other player in the league that has scored 30 or more goals every year since entering the league. You don't give up that kind of consistency for assumed value.


Last edited by DuckJet: 12-10-2012 at 10:30 PM.
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Old
12-10-2012, 10:56 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
If Getz is signed long term at a decent rate (6-6.5 per), the deal is very interesting. As good as Seguin and Hamilton look to be, neither have proven or produced like Getzlaf and Ryan have. It would be a gamble for the Ducks, but it could end up being a home run. Either way, that's a whole lot of talent in 1 trade. Imagine if it went down, the biggest team in the NHL, gets even bigger.
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Horton is a pending UFA who has had major injury issues. Boston proved that being big and mean and skilled is a deadly combination. Your right, the Bruins are already big and mean and skilled. No argument there, but if Getzlaf is signed, I like that deal for the B's, it makes them even bigger, even meaner, and even more skilled. Like I already said, Seguin and Hamilton are both young players with loads of potential, they could end up being all stars. The only difference is, Getzlaf and Ryan are all stars already. But if this deal comes without an extension in place for Getzlaf, there is no way the Bruins would do it, way too risky.
Yup. This is how I envisioned this trade as well. If Anaheim had to trade these players for whatever reason (maybe to rebuild) there is no denying that this would be a pretty sweet return. Yes they are losing franchise players, but they are getting franchise players back who they can build around. They could even trade Perry and Hiller to help speed the process by collecting other blue chip prospects and low draft picks. (ala Tampa Bay Rays.)

As for the B's, it makes them even bigger, even meaner, and even more skilled. Enough said.


Last edited by Beer Me: 12-10-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old
12-10-2012, 11:12 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Insert facepalm gif here

Call me the next time Seguin hits 90+ points and has 4 consecutive PPG seasons if you want to be taken seriously. Maybe to Boston, this young center with great potential may have more VALUE, but better? Give me a break.
If you want to talk "value", Getzlaf only has a half season left on his deal. Maybe to Anaheim, since they believe they can re-sign him, but on the open market there's no way he fetches a player like Seguin.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Beer Me View Post
Yup. This is how I envisioned this trade as well. If Anaheim had to trade these players for whatever reason (maybe to rebuild) there is no denying that this would be a pretty sweet return. Yes they are losing franchise players, but they are getting franchise players back who they can build around. They could even trade Perry and Hiller to help speed the process by collecting other blue chip prospects and low draft picks. (ala Tampa Bay Rays.)
We have already amassed a deep prospect pool. If we get picks and prospects back for Getzlaf and Perry, it would be because that's the market we've seen show up with players with that sort of term(Hossa and Kovalchuk). It wouldn't be a trade that our team made because it was something that we needed to do; it would be because of their unwillingness to re-sign.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Insert facepalm gif here

Call me the next time Seguin hits 90+ points and has 4 consecutive PPG seasons if you want to be taken seriously. Maybe to Boston, this young center with great potential may have more VALUE, but better? Give me a break.



No he didn't prove that he can out-score Getzlaf in a good year. He proved that he could outscore him by a bit in his worst year since his rookie season.....actually he had a better PPG in his rookie year, so Seguin proved that he can outscore Getzlaf in his worst possible year.

Prior to that Getzlaf was top 9 in the league in PPG. We're not sure what happened but clearly something was off.

Ryan? I'll give it to you on that one that Seguin will probably end up being a better point producer than Ryan, but Ryan's goal scoring is invaluable. There's only one other player in the league that has scored 30 or more goals every year since entering the league. You don't give up that kind of consistency for assumed value.
That is the point, you don't want to assume that Seguin continues to improve and I don't want to assume Getzlaf will re-sign or return to being a ppg player. Seguin did outscore Getzlaf and I pointed out that it may just have been a bad year, but he has proven he can outscore Getzlaf even if it is in his worst year. Of course it looks like Seguin's game is just starting to take off and we don't know what will happen, maybe he does become a 90+ point player, I'm not going to expect that and I don't expect that from Getzlaf either.

I am actually agreeing with you that the Ducks wouldn't assume anything and I pointed out that Boston wouldn't assume anything either. Like it or not, there are questions that need to be answered about Getzlaf,ie, will he re-sign and will he return to the player he was.

I wouldn't expect the Ducks to assume that Dougie Hamilton will turn into a player equal to Drew Doughty, but there is a chance that he will be in the same company with Doughty, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc. I wouldn't expect the Ducks to assume that Seguin turns into a 40+ goal 80+ point player even though that is exactly what I think will happen.

The only guy in this deal that I think we can pencil him in for anything is Ryan, everyone else has quite a big swing in what I would expect in stats and I wouldn't expect Hamilton to really get his game going for another 2 years.

I see why someone made this proposal, but I also see why both teams stick with what they have.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:05 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Seguin is the most valuable player in this deal.

Im a big fan of Getzlaf & Ryan, but Seguin oozes potential, he already led the Bruins in scoring at 19yrs old. Hamilton fits a major need. Not to mention why would Boston want to add another center? Krejci Bergeron Kelly Peverly Seguin Campbell...
Yeah if he's lucky he MIGHT one day be as good as Getzlaf.....

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:36 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Yeah if he's lucky he MIGHT one day be as good as Getzlaf.....
Seguin or Getzlaf, which one is on Team Canada 2014.... I know which one I think is more likely..

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:40 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
Seguin or Getzlaf, which one is on Team Canada 2014.... I know which one I think is more likely..
In all fairness, as much as I love Seguin, if Getzlaf goes back to playing how he has been all his career, it's gonna be tough for them to leave him off the team. I think they'll both make it.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:13 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
So now, not only is Seguin better than Getzlaf, but you're saying he's '>>>' better? (3x better??)

Do tell...I'd like to hear the explanation as to how he's not only better, but how he's '>>>' better than a proven, elite Center who up until last season was considered a top Centerman in the league that was coming off of 4 straight PPG seasons.

I think Seguin is a great young talent and don't think this trade makes sense for either team, but your rating of the two is crazy.
Oh sorry about that, I just meant much better. Now and the future.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:19 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Yeah if he's lucky he MIGHT one day be as good as Getzlaf.....
That "one day" was last season, where Seguin outscored Getzlaf and Ryan

And we can most likely expect it an annual occurence

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:32 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
That "one day" was last season, where Seguin outscored Getzlaf and Ryan

And we can most likely expect it an annual occurence
Nope, thats not how it works. Getzlaf had an OFF-YEAR, something that happens even the best. When seguin have a 90p season then he might be better, asuming getzlaf doesnt go back to his STANDARD ppg-season.

Hfboards: the what have you done for me lately addition.

Buy now and get a free copy of the best selling - why prospects are more worth then proven NHL-players.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:40 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Anaheim would not jump on that.

But they should. Also Seguin is a no go. Boston won a cup, i'm they rather built a team from with in. Like many poster mention Nhl have a cap hit and Getzlaf contract expiring after this year. Not worth the gamble for Boston.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:43 AM
  #93
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Also in a gm game Getzlaf and bobby Ryan as more values then those two but we are talking real life.
Real life have cap hit,contract issue....

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:48 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
Seguin or Getzlaf, which one is on Team Canada 2014.... I know which one I think is more likely..
Well obiously its gonna be seguin-rnh-couts and then maaaaaybe crosby on the 4th line, if hes lucky. I mean just look at them, getzlaf is like an ahl-player compared to them

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:49 AM
  #95
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But they should.
Trading 2/3rds of our first line - probably all of it, since Perry won't be sticking around at that point - only makes sense in the minds of a handful of fans that don't really understand what is happening in Anaheim.

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12-11-2012, 10:40 AM
  #96
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This doesn't make sense at all for Boston. The Bruins are close to the cap as it is plus we're loaded at center. Seguin's natural position is center who's being converted to wing because of the depth here in Boston. Ryan would be great, but adding Getzlaf to the mix of Bergeron, Krejci, Peverley, Kelly, and Campbell would be overkill. Hamilton represents Boston's best blueline prospect in decades and the only dman prospect we have who could make an impact. With a defensive crop filled with aging veterans, now is not the time to be trading away our best dman prospect without getting a young-ish impact dman in return.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:53 AM
  #97
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Nope, thats not how it works. Getzlaf had an OFF-YEAR, something that happens even the best. When seguin have a 90p season then he might be better, asuming getzlaf doesnt go back to his STANDARD ppg-season.

Hfboards: the what have you done for me lately addition.

Buy now and get a free copy of the best selling - why prospects are more worth then proven NHL-players.
You're 'assuming' Getzlaf just had a down season & will rebound,, just as I'm assuming that Seguin will continue to improve on his stats he just put up as a 19yr old (29g 38a 67pts)

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:01 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Yeah if he's lucky he MIGHT one day be as good as Getzlaf.....
& he perhaps is already on his way there. He already at age 19 has surpassed Getzlafs career high goals scored in a season.

Thus I dont think it's far fetched to suggest that he may one day soon be at least as good as Getzlaf, perhaps better. He's 7yrs younger, is under contract for the next 7yrs. Getzlaf after this season (?) will be a 28yr old UFA, so yes IMO Seguin is the most valuable asset in this proposed deal.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:04 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DisneyDucky View Post
Nope, thats not how it works. Getzlaf had an OFF-YEAR, something that happens even the best. When seguin have a 90p season then he might be better, asuming getzlaf doesnt go back to his STANDARD ppg-season.

Hfboards: the what have you done for me lately addition.

Buy now and get a free copy of the best selling - why prospects are more worth then proven NHL-players.
High end young players like Seguin are worth far more than players like Getzlaf factoring in his UFA status. Would you trade Cam Fowler for a player like Getzlaf?

Also, what makes you think any team would trade their prized young player (RNH, Seguin, Hall, etc) for someone who A. is coming off a bad season and B. has already reached UFA status, and will likely make more money than any of the youngins?

Trade makes no sense for either team.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:09 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You're 'assuming' Getzlaf just had a down season & will rebound,, just as I'm assuming that Seguin will continue to improve on his stats he just put up as a 19yr old (29g 38a 67pts)
the bottom line is they're both very good players, both have the talent to be top 10 scorers in the league. Due to contract status, I agree that Seguin is the most valuable asset in the trade, that does not mean that he's currently the best player, nor does it mean that he won't be the best player out of the 4. Due to Getzlaf's contract status, this deal will never happen. There is no need to argue over Getzlaf and Seguin, they are both extremely valuable assets.

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