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S. Despres for J. Schwartz

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:38 PM
  #26
KidLine93
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As an outsider Morrow for Schwartz is fair value.
Gormley is worth considerably more than Schwartz so that deal would never happen

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12-09-2012, 04:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Cole is a defensive defenceman, Despres will be just as effective if not more when he becomes a regular on the Penguins.

comparing Despres to Cole!?? Really!

It's ridiculous to try to pidgeonhole Cole as a "defensive" defenseman at this stage in his development, especially in comparison to Despres, as the two have put up similar offensive output throughout their young careers.

Despres PPG AHL .34
Cole PPG AHL .35

Despres PPG NHL .22
Cole PPG NHL .19

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Old
12-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #28
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I've always thought of Cole as a left handed Polak, with 25-30 point upside.

Which, I think, if you ask most Blues fans, is exactly what "we" would want to pair with Petro.Lets just wait and see what happens before we burn one of our best forward prospects in the last 20 years. Cole was rated as a top pair/#3 coming out of the draft, it's taken him a little longer than most thought it would to develop, but we are at that point were the Blues need to see what they have in Cole, and it's going to take a few years to get a complete read on him.

Schwartz has a chance to be a special player and I would hate to give up on that potential for a nominal upgrade.

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12-09-2012, 05:34 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
It's ridiculous to try to pidgeonhole Cole as a "defensive" defenseman at this stage in his development, especially in comparison to Despres, as the two have put up similar offensive output throughout their young careers.

Despres PPG AHL .34
Cole PPG AHL .35

Despres PPG NHL .22
Cole PPG NHL .19
Cole was also drafted two years before Despres.

Value aside, the Pens need Despres - a big, two-way defenseman who looked great in his call-ups last year - more than they need Schwartz - a very skilled but small winger who may need some time to adjust to the pros.

It's obvious that defense is our biggest problem right now. We need to move out a vet or two to make room for our young blueline talent, not trade young blueline talent for more potential offense.

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12-09-2012, 05:50 PM
  #30
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Personally, I would love to trade for Morrow because I think He's the perfect kind of guy for Pietrangelo, mostly because my faith in Cole is almost at zero and has been for quite a while. But to acquire Morrow, I would be hesitant to trade Schwartz, not because I think he's worth more, but because I think we will need his Play-making in the future

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12-09-2012, 10:12 PM
  #31
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Perhaps it wold be best to involve Ty Rattie instead of Schwartz. We all know how much the Pens love players from the Portland Winterhawks.

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Old
12-09-2012, 11:52 PM
  #32
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Count me in as a Blues fan who would like to see this trade happen. I admittidely don't have very much faith in Cole(as a top pair defensemen), and I think Despres is the kind of guy that could come in and have an immediate impact for the Blues. He is projected to be the kind of player that will be a solid defensive workhorse with some offensive upside. His size, physicality, and mobility are exactly what we need in partner for Pietrangelo. I'm pretty high on Schwartz too, but keeping in mind that quality defensemen hold more value in today's NHL...I think a straight up swap would be pretty darn fair for both sides. I would love it we could make a trade for a star veteran 1st pairing LHD, but I think a trade like this makes more sense for the Blues. This way we could keep our entire core intact, and still add a quality young defenseman.

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:21 AM
  #33
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The Blues are one of the teams with enough young talent that they could probably afford to move Schwartz in this type of lateral move from a promising D prospect, and from that perspective, I think it's a reasonable proposal. Which prospect to target is arguable but I think the basis is there.

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12-10-2012, 08:09 AM
  #34
Randall Ritchey
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What about Rattie for Dumoulin?

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:46 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
What about Rattie for Dumoulin?
That could be a good basis for a deal as over the next season or two depending on whether our vets rebound/other blueline prospects progress, but right now I think we need all the size/shutdown ability we can get on the back end. Dumoulin looks close.

Rattie's just the sort of prospect we could use though. RH goal-scoring winger.

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12-10-2012, 09:30 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
That could be a good basis for a deal as over the next season or two depending on whether our vets rebound/other blueline prospects progress, but right now I think we need all the size/shutdown ability we can get on the back end. Dumoulin looks close.

Rattie's just the sort of prospect we could use though. RH goal-scoring winger.
Though small, either Rattie or Schwartz would eventually look great playing with Sid. The more and more I think about it, the better the idea of the Pens & Blues being great trade partners.

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12-10-2012, 06:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Though small, either Rattie or Schwartz would eventually look great playing with Sid. The more and more I think about it, the better the idea of the Pens & Blues being great trade partners.
We do, which is why there are so many proposals between the two teams. The problem is finding a deal both sides will sign off on.

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12-10-2012, 06:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Though small, either Rattie or Schwartz would eventually look great playing with Sid. The more and more I think about it, the better the idea of the Pens & Blues being great trade partners.
I never thought of the Pens and Blues as possible trading partners, but you do have a point, we are stacked with wingers and you guys have a plethora of defensemen. This could work.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:52 PM
  #39
Randall Ritchey
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I think the best option is Rattie for Dumoulin. Both players have high potential and have the ability to change a game in their own way.

With Schwartz, Jaskin, and Tarasenko, moving Rattie wouldn't hurt us that bad.

Same with Dumoulin. With Morrow, Despres, Määttä, etc, moving Dumoulin I fill a need by adding a skilled winger could work well.

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
I think the best option is Rattie for Dumoulin. Both players have high potential and have the ability to change a game in their own way.

With Schwartz, Jaskin, and Tarasenko, moving Rattie wouldn't hurt us that bad.

Same with Dumoulin. With Morrow, Despres, Määttä, etc, moving Dumoulin I fill a need by adding a skilled winger could work well.
I agree. Rattie would be the best fit for Crosby of the bunch. Schwartz will probably be the best, but he is more of a playmaker, where Rattie is a scorer.

I think between Cole and Dumoulin, one of them would become a good top pairing partner for Petro, and the other would be a really good 2nd pairing, especially with a player like Shattenkirk.

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12-10-2012, 08:54 PM
  #41
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I don't really see which team is winning, and if it fits both teams need (It does for Pittsburgh, not very knowledgeable about St-Louis), this is a trade that makes sense.

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12-10-2012, 09:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
I think the best option is Rattie for Dumoulin. Both players have high potential and have the ability to change a game in their own way.

With Schwartz, Jaskin, and Tarasenko, moving Rattie wouldn't hurt us that bad.

Same with Dumoulin. With Morrow, Despres, Määttä, etc, moving Dumoulin I fill a need by adding a skilled winger could work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I agree. Rattie would be the best fit for Crosby of the bunch. Schwartz will probably be the best, but he is more of a playmaker, where Rattie is a scorer.

I think between Cole and Dumoulin, one of them would become a good top pairing partner for Petro, and the other would be a really good 2nd pairing, especially with a player like Shattenkirk.
The problem here is that our blueline played so poorly in the playoffs that a serious overhaul should be our top priority. Letang's the only top 4 defenseman who looked comfortable in Bylsma's system, so it looks like we'll need to replenish 3 top 4 defensemen from within very shortly.

Considering we were the highest scoring team last season with the most productive player in the world out of the line-up for most of it, defense should be our first priority. We should wait to see which ones pan out, particularly those closest to the NHL.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:58 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The problem here is that our blueline played so poorly in the playoffs that a serious overhaul should be our top priority. Letang's the only top 4 defenseman who looked comfortable in Bylsma's system, so it looks like we'll need to replenish 3 top 4 defensemen from within very shortly.

Considering we were the highest scoring team last season with the most productive player in the world out of the line-up for most of it, defense should be our first priority. We should wait to see which ones pan out, particularly those closest to the NHL.
If you want an overhaul on D what would you want for Orpik?
I like your talk about a prospect swap but IMO if we don't trust Cole we shouldn't start with any other Rookie (not named Gormley) too

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12-11-2012, 02:40 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The problem here is that our blueline played so poorly in the playoffs that a serious overhaul should be our top priority. Letang's the only top 4 defenseman who looked comfortable in Bylsma's system, so it looks like we'll need to replenish 3 top 4 defensemen from within very shortly.

Considering we were the highest scoring team last season with the most productive player in the world out of the line-up for most of it, defense should be our first priority. We should wait to see which ones pan out, particularly those closest to the NHL.
The whole team played poorly defensively, not just the defense. One series does not a team make.

While there are question marks on the back end, I for one am not willing to blow it all up. This team was top of the line defensively two seasons ago, and 12th last season. Getting rocked in 5 games doesn't necessitate an overreaction. A tweaking and small retooling sure, but nothing major.

I'm huge on Schwartz and on Despres. I'd probably make the deal, from Pens' standpoint, but it's a tough one to make.

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12-11-2012, 08:48 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
The whole team played poorly defensively, not just the defense. One series does not a team make.

While there are question marks on the back end, I for one am not willing to blow it all up. This team was top of the line defensively two seasons ago, and 12th last season. Getting rocked in 5 games doesn't necessitate an overreaction. A tweaking and small retooling sure, but nothing major.

I'm huge on Schwartz and on Despres. I'd probably make the deal, from Pens' standpoint, but it's a tough one to make.
The difference is that the whole team didn't play poor defensively all year...Martin and Orpik did. The playoffs was the culmination of bad years for both, and they were arguably the two worst culprits when it mattered despite being two of the highest-paid.

I don't have much faith that either of them, at this point in their careers, will thrive in a system that puts so much emphasis on pushing the pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
If you want an overhaul on D what would you want for Orpik?
I like your talk about a prospect swap but IMO if we don't trust Cole we shouldn't start with any other Rookie (not named Gormley) too
I'd want Rattie or Schwartz.

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12-11-2012, 09:15 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The difference is that the whole team didn't play poor defensively all year...Martin and Orpik did. The playoffs was the culmination of bad years for both, and they were arguably the two worst culprits when it mattered despite being two of the highest-paid.

I don't have much faith that either of them, at this point in their careers, will thrive in a system that puts so much emphasis on pushing the pace.



I'd want Rattie or Schwartz.
I would prefer to get Chris Stewart. If he's available.

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12-11-2012, 09:44 AM
  #47
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Dumoulin for Jaskin

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:46 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
If you want an overhaul on D what would you want for Orpik?
I like your talk about a prospect swap but IMO if we don't trust Cole we shouldn't start with any other Rookie (not named Gormley) too
From just about every Penguin fan that I've seen post about Orpik, it seems that he a big down year last season. He is no longer the player that he was in the past. We shouldn't being going after any aging defensemen, unless the price is really cheap. We lost

Colaiacovo who provided significant powerplay minutes, and he quarterbacked the 2nd unit, if we trade for someone, I think they need to pick up some of that slack. Our powerplay is at its best when Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are together. Russell is a really good puck mover, but he really doesn't provide much offense for the powerplay.

I wouldn't move any of our top prospects or Stewart for Orpik.

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12-11-2012, 07:06 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
From just about every Penguin fan that I've seen post about Orpik, it seems that he a big down year last season. He is no longer the player that he was in the past. We shouldn't being going after any aging defensemen, unless the price is really cheap. We lost

Colaiacovo who provided significant powerplay minutes, and he quarterbacked the 2nd unit, if we trade for someone, I think they need to pick up some of that slack. Our powerplay is at its best when Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are together. Russell is a really good puck mover, but he really doesn't provide much offense for the powerplay.

I wouldn't move any of our top prospects or Stewart for Orpik.
As much as I criticize the season Orpik had last year, I think anyone who ascribes value to Stewart can understand that one season is one season, and a change of scenery can often rejuvenate a player.

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12-11-2012, 07:29 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
From just about every Penguin fan that I've seen post about Orpik, it seems that he a big down year last season. He is no longer the player that he was in the past. We shouldn't being going after any aging defensemen, unless the price is really cheap. We lost

Colaiacovo who provided significant powerplay minutes, and he quarterbacked the 2nd unit, if we trade for someone, I think they need to pick up some of that slack. Our powerplay is at its best when Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are together. Russell is a really good puck mover, but he really doesn't provide much offense for the powerplay.

I wouldn't move any of our top prospects or Stewart for Orpik.
The last couple of years and his bruising style of play caught up to him. I think he's a player that really is benefiting from the lockout even if he is 32. IMHO Orpik-Pietrangelo pairing would be scary good.

I honestly believe both Martin and Orpik will bounce back when the NHL finally comes back.

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