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Who is the Better PKer? Brian Boyle or Ryan Callahan?

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:30 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yep, our other PKing center can't handle defensive pressure.

What??
Yeah he starts over 60% of his shifts in offensive zone.

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:45 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Considering a ton of those guys are either:

1. bona-fide top 6 players
2. not centers
3. not better than Boyle

I'd say you're right where you started -- without much of an argument.
Be more specific wiseass. I said the list wasn't perfect. On Colorado you have Stasny and O'Reilly listed as centers and I don't get to see too many Av games so Duschene was added. Otherwise most of these guys slot as third line centers for the teams they are on and they are better players than Brian Boyle.

Put the stats aside. Do you go to any games? Brian works hard, but his skill set is awful. He gets in the way alot (he stops scoring chances for both teams); is easily knocked off the puck and has no ability to distribute the puck. He's fine defensively but not good enough to be getting a regular 3rd line shift considering how deficient he is in the offensive zone. We all know his goal total from two years ago was a two month burst where everything went in. He has not shown that ability either before those two months or since.

I like him as a player; on my 4th line getting 5 - 7 minutes a night at ES and on my 1st PK unit. I have an argument; you just don't agree. And the fact that I have season tickets and see him without the lovefest that comes from Sam and Joe influencing my opinion leaves me with a less than favorable assessment of him as a 3rd line player.

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:50 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Please tell me that 'Duschene' isn't referring to Matt Duchene and that you're grouping him in as a 3rd line center.
No it's Steve Duschene former Defenseman for the Quebec Nordiques. The problem with the Avs is that I don't get to see too many of their games and O'Reilly and Stasny are also listed as centers. I said that the list wasn't perfect so to mock as if you've taken the time that I did to try and put some meat on the bones of this argument is childish.

Now based on this list forgetting the representative from the Colorado Avalanche, who would you NOT trade for Brian Boyle if you need a 3rd line center?

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:28 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
No it's Steve Duschene former Defenseman for the Quebec Nordiques. The problem with the Avs is that I don't get to see too many of their games and O'Reilly and Stasny are also listed as centers. I said that the list wasn't perfect so to mock as if you've taken the time that I did to try and put some meat on the bones of this argument is childish.

Now based on this list forgetting the representative from the Colorado Avalanche, who would you NOT trade for Brian Boyle if you need a 3rd line center?
Tom Pyatt
Josh Bailey
Lapierre
Handzus
Matthias
Cogliano
Arnott
Connolly
Antropov
Letestu
Langkow
Stajan
Fiddler
Horcoff
Stoll

So I would take Boyle over quite a few of those players. And some of the others are young and up and coming so they have value that way, not that they are better players right now.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:40 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
No it's Steve Duschene former Defenseman for the Quebec Nordiques. The problem with the Avs is that I don't get to see too many of their games and O'Reilly and Stasny are also listed as centers. I said that the list wasn't perfect so to mock as if you've taken the time that I did to try and put some meat on the bones of this argument is childish.

Now based on this list forgetting the representative from the Colorado Avalanche, who would you NOT trade for Brian Boyle if you need a 3rd line center?
Pointing out the holes in your argument is not childish. I have a hard time taking your list seriously when not only are you including players you haven't seen very much of but it really looks like you said: "Here are the third highest scoring players on the team who are listed as centers. Which ones are better than Boyle?" That's not how I evaluate what I want in a 3rd line center, so what's the point?

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Old
12-03-2012, 12:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Pointing out the holes in your argument is not childish. I have a hard time taking your list seriously when not only are you including players you haven't seen very much of but it really looks like you said: "Here are the third highest scoring players on the team who are listed as centers. Which ones are better than Boyle?" That's not how I evaluate what I want in a 3rd line center, so what's the point?
Pointing out the holes in your argument is not childish It is if you simply mock without any data to support.

"Here are the third highest scoring players on the team who are listed as centers. This is the dumbest thing you've offered by a wide margin. That is not what I did. I looked for the third line center on every team. Some teams, I knew who it was, others I was able to figure it out pretty easily based on the roster and what I recall from watching the team play and for others I took the those listed as center and tried to slot them to determine who would center the third line.

My point is that if you take the list you get a sense of what third line centers in this league are like and our guy is low on that list. He's a 4th line center; that's what I'm saying. Not that tricky. What's a shame is that I took the time to try and fortify the argument by pulling his peers and all it led to was mocking by those who haven't attempted the same effort themselves. All they offer is their opinion and silly stats about where faceoffs take place.

I could argue that Boyle takes a lot of draws in his own end because he cannot control the puck which leads to the opponent being on attack for the majority of each of his shifts which leads to a SOG and a defensive draw. As I said a silly stat that leads to more conjecture.

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Old
12-03-2012, 12:54 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
All they offer is their opinion and silly stats about where faceoffs take place.
Yes all we have are facts and statistics. While you watch Brian Boyle play and draw a picture depicting how that makes you feel. I can see how yours is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I could argue that Boyle takes a lot of draws in his own end because he cannot control the puck which leads to the opponent being on attack for the majority of each of his shifts which leads to a SOG and a defensive draw.
Well since the Rangers directed more shots at the opposition's goal than was directed at their own when Boyle was on the ice I can say that's definitively not true. Not to mention that after a whistle in the defensive zone the coach has the opportunity to change players so the basis of that nonsensical argument is nonsensical.

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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
As I said a silly stat that leads to more conjecture.


That stat didn't introduce conjecture. You did.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:09 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Pointing out the holes in your argument is not childish It is if you simply mock without any data to support.

"Here are the third highest scoring players on the team who are listed as centers. This is the dumbest thing you've offered by a wide margin. That is not what I did. I looked for the third line center on every team. Some teams, I knew who it was, others I was able to figure it out pretty easily based on the roster and what I recall from watching the team play and for others I took the those listed as center and tried to slot them to determine who would center the third line.

My point is that if you take the list you get a sense of what third line centers in this league are like and our guy is low on that list. He's a 4th line center; that's what I'm saying. Not that tricky. What's a shame is that I took the time to try and fortify the argument by pulling his peers and all it led to was mocking by those who haven't attempted the same effort themselves. All they offer is their opinion and silly stats about where faceoffs take place.

I could argue that Boyle takes a lot of draws in his own end because he cannot control the puck which leads to the opponent being on attack for the majority of each of his shifts which leads to a SOG and a defensive draw. As I said a silly stat that leads to more conjecture.
With the way Torts plays his system, Boyle is a perfect 3rd line center. Sure, we would like more offense from him, but that isn't what he is there for.

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #109
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Callahan. He has better hockey sense and knows where to go. The -8 last year is misleading, like when Chara was a -30 or something the year he signed with Boston.

Boyle is too slow and prone to defensive mistakes IMO. His only real advantage is size and debatably strength.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:39 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Pointing out the holes in your argument is not childish It is if you simply mock without any data to support.

"Here are the third highest scoring players on the team who are listed as centers. This is the dumbest thing you've offered by a wide margin. That is not what I did. I looked for the third line center on every team. Some teams, I knew who it was, others I was able to figure it out pretty easily based on the roster and what I recall from watching the team play and for others I took the those listed as center and tried to slot them to determine who would center the third line.

My point is that if you take the list you get a sense of what third line centers in this league are like and our guy is low on that list. He's a 4th line center; that's what I'm saying. Not that tricky. What's a shame is that I took the time to try and fortify the argument by pulling his peers and all it led to was mocking by those who haven't attempted the same effort themselves. All they offer is their opinion and silly stats about where faceoffs take place.

I could argue that Boyle takes a lot of draws in his own end because he cannot control the puck which leads to the opponent being on attack for the majority of each of his shifts which leads to a SOG and a defensive draw. As I said a silly stat that leads to more conjecture.
Sorry, but using advanced statistics is far more meaningful than what you did. Jordan Staal was a 3rd line center by circumstance. Matt Duchene was injured and missed a large chunk of the season, but was the #1 guy the year before. Several of the players are young kids who are getting 3rd line time early in their development, or have simply failed to reach their ceiling as top-six forwards. Several others don't even play center and are simply listed on NHL.com as one. Some are players who have regressed to a bottom-six role in their old age.

Boyle takes a lot of draws in his own end because the coach puts him on the ice in key defensive situations. However, once you say something like "it's a silly stat" after coming to the table with your list of "3rd line centers" it's very hard to take you seriously.

Boyle is a very good defensive center that spends the majority of his time shutting down the oppositions top line. He's put up respectable numbers for a guy who gets zero PP time and played almost exclusively with Brandon "Hands are for fighting not scoring" Prust and a series of others who are almost equally lousy in the offensive zone.

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