Isn;t Dubnyk the Oiler rep now? He doesn;t seem to be that much of an involved guy. Is he just sitting on his couch after that fat contract or what? Just practicing at the U?
Horcoff and Dubnyk are our reps, two guys that have gotten massively overpaid by the current system. No wonder they seem to be on the hardline stance.
Have the owners been pushing for an amnesty clause? Because I know who I want to see it used on as soon as its available...
Many share my opinion. Many more than share yours.
Ah, there's our misunderstanding. I was never trying to say the majority of people think there will be hockey, by many i meant a large amount of people but not most people. I'd agree with you that most people don't believe there will be hockey, if i put up a yes/no poll on the issue in the next thread without a doubt more would say no, however the percentages may be a bit closer then you think (i'll do it if i remember to)
Also i was originally replying to a guy calling people who think there will be hockey crazy and thats just unfair. I've seen (on twitter) alot of media folk say they think there will be a deal
My apologies if i was not clear on what i meant by many earlier
I might sound like a delusional optimist, but I'm going with Mid January. Once the drop dead date approaches, both sides will go in a fury of bargaining sessions. I see this lockout pushed to the very limit until the season is saved.
It's inconceivable to lose a season for what they're fighting for.
It will be like 1994-95 and we'll have a crappy 48 game season....hey but it beats the alternative ain't it?
Jan is the most likely, but by no means a sure thing.
The players will probably crack once the prospect of losing an entire season becomes more real. If they can barely make it into december before showing signs of coming apart at the seams, then with the prospect of losing a full season of paychecks will push those fractures even more.
There also should be absolutely no doubt whatsoever this time that the NHL is not bluffing about canceling the entire season as well. If even a single PA member is clinging to that idea, then they should be instiutionalized.
An excellent read, thanks for posting.
I remember when Kelly was fired. I remember not being overly concerned. What an idiot I was.
I seem to remember me being like "WTF?" Not overly concerned either, but it seemed to come out of nowhere. I was however concerned once Fehr got hired.
Brinkmanship is the tactic being used by both sides here IMO. Both are going to push one another to the edge with no intention of going over; either one will cave or one will slip and push both of them off the cliff. I'm leaning towards the former, but my head says otherwise.
You sound like Nick Kypreos. You're out to lunch man.
The NHL wanted to start talking a year ago. The PA refused. They refused to talk until this summer.
The NHL initial offer is a joke it always has been. Their ploy is to make a ludicrous offer then lock the players out and use their PR firm to make it seem like they are trying to be "fair". They are not trying to be fair.
They have employed the same tactic since Bettman started to run the league. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Why do we have 3 successive lockouts? Do the players lock themselves out? No the league does. That is the tactic they employ and they know how good a tactic it is even if it is a very slimy thing to do.
You guys can just ignore all the facts and history that back this up. You can plug your fingers in your ears and go NOPE NOPE NOPE.
The NHL initial offer is a joke it always has been. Their ploy is to make a ludicrous offer then lock the players out and use their PR firm to make it seem like they are trying to be "fair". They are not trying to be fair.
They have employed the same tactic since Bettman started to run the league. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Why do we have 3 successive lockouts? Do the players lock themselves out? No the league does. That is the tactic they employ and they know how good a tactic it is even if it is a very slimy thing to do.
You guys can just ignore all the facts and history that back this up. You can plug your fingers in your ears and go NOPE NOPE NOPE.
The owners presented the players with a very fair offer last week. But Fehr told them he could get them a better deal.
The NHL initial offer is a joke it always has been. Their ploy is to make a ludicrous offer then lock the players out and use their PR firm to make it seem like they are trying to be "fair". They are not trying to be fair.
They have employed the same tactic since Bettman started to run the league. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Why do we have 3 successive lockouts? Do the players lock themselves out? No the league does. That is the tactic they employ and they know how good a tactic it is even if it is a very slimy thing to do.
History? You want to look at history? Well - the players in sports used the strike as their weapon of choice time and time again. The owners had enough and simply took that option away by employing the use of lockouts. Seriously - you don't see that the PA refusing to even talk for over a year as a sign that negotiations would go that smoothly while playing without a CBA? Even now with the season on the line the PA is not giving up much - how much less would they be willing to give up after they had gotten paid the whole year with the owners' gravy train (the playoffs) coming up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback
You guys can just ignore all the facts and history that back this up. You can plug your fingers in your ears and go NOPE NOPE NOPE.
History? You want to look at history? Well - the players in sports used the strike as their weapon of choice time and time again. The owners had enough and simply took that option away by employing the use of lockouts. Seriously - you don't see that the PA refusing to even talk for over a year as a sign that negotiations would go that smoothly while playing without a CBA? Even now with the season on the line the PA is not giving up much - how much less would they be willing to give up after they had gotten paid the whole year with the owners' gravy train (the playoffs) coming up?
Ditto
Yea he has to look up what happenned to the MLB and its fans when they let the players play during contract negotiations led by Fehr. Definitely the guy I'd be backing.
The NHL initial offer is a joke it always has been. Their ploy is to make a ludicrous offer then lock the players out and use their PR firm to make it seem like they are trying to be "fair". They are not trying to be fair.
They have employed the same tactic since Bettman started to run the league. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Why do we have 3 successive lockouts? Do the players lock themselves out? No the league does. That is the tactic they employ and they know how good a tactic it is even if it is a very slimy thing to do.
You guys can just ignore all the facts and history that back this up. You can plug your fingers in your ears and go NOPE NOPE NOPE.
I don't think that anybody is saying that the owners aren't at fault as well.
It's the Pro-PA crowd that can't wrap their heads around the fact that some of the blame lies with the players as well. Read up on that NESN article about the reasons for the Kelly firing and you'll see where people are coming from with the anti-PA stance.
It has been pretty obvious since they hired a hardliner like Fehr that they were in for a war. Their egos took a hit after supposedly getting worked by the owners in the last deal even that deal did wonders for the players so they hired a guy with the full intent of going to war with the owners. They knew full well that it would come to this.
The owners are at fault as well. There is a precedent for them having labor issues with previous regimes and their original offer in the summer was not what i would call, negotiating in good faith but what this boils down to is Fehr. I fully believe that if Kelly was still in charge, that a full season would have been played.
I think that Fehr refused to negotiate with the owners purposely until after the previous CBA expired so he can squeeze every last bit from the owners that he could.
My worry is that Fehr fully intends to go for the cap and that is his endgame. I sure hope that's not the case and that the moderate players get in his ear to get a deal done to save this season because we really don't want to see what it will come to if Fehr attacks the cap. It will be a worse case scenario that NHL fans don't want to imagine.
I don't know why but i think that common sense will prevail, enough players will speak up and that a deal will get done to save this season. I don't think that they want to take it down the dark road that Fehr is capable of taking it down.
I don't think that anybody is saying that the owners aren't at fault as well.
It's the Pro-PA crowd that can't wrap their heads around the fact that some of the blame lies with the players as well. Read up on that NESN article about the reasons for the Kelly firing and you'll see where people are coming from with the anti-PA stance.
It has been pretty obvious since they hired a hardliner like Fehr that they were in for a war. Their egos took a hit after supposedly getting worked by the owners in the last deal even that deal did wonders for the players so they hired a guy with the full intent of going to war with the owners. They knew full well that it would come to this.
The owners are at fault as well. There is a precedent for them having labor issues with previous regimes and their original offer in the summer was not what i would call, negotiating in good faith but what this boils down to is Fehr. I fully believe that if Kelly was still in charge, that a full season would have been played.
I think that Fehr refused to negotiate with the owners purposely until after the previous CBA expired so he can squeeze every last bit from the owners that he could.
My worry is that Fehr fully intends to go for the cap and that is his endgame. I sure hope that's not the case and that the moderate players get in his ear to get a deal done to save this season because we really don't want to see what it will come to if Fehr attacks the cap. It will be a worse case scenario that NHL fans don't want to imagine.
I don't know why but i think that common sense will prevail, enough players will speak up and that a deal will get done to save this season. I don't think that they want to take it down the dark road that Fehr is capable of taking it down.
I think alot lies with the players and the way they handle the leadership roles in the PA for the past 10 years
They have a bad relationship though, the league and PA. Probably because the PA is stronger then the league would like them to be.
History? You want to look at history? Well - the players in sports used the strike as their weapon of choice time and time again. The owners had enough and simply took that option away by employing the use of lockouts. Seriously - you don't see that the PA refusing to even talk for over a year as a sign that negotiations would go that smoothly while playing without a CBA? Even now with the season on the line the PA is not giving up much - how much less would they be willing to give up after they had gotten paid the whole year with the owners' gravy train (the playoffs) coming up?
Ditto
Like I said History in the NHL has been to Lockout. That is the way the League negotiates. At the end of a gun.
I guess the silver lining in all of this is that there's definitely not much more than a month of this crap left. You have to think if no deal is reached by Jan 15th the season is done (Capt Obvious I know)
Maybe grow some balls and cancel games til Jan 14. This whole two weeks at a time is really doing nothing other than forcing me to hear that two more weeks is cancelled. No wonder Fehr tells the players he can get a better deal.
Like I said History in the NHL has been to Lockout. That is the way the League negotiates. At the end of a gun.
Sorry but that is a fact.
Are you sure about that?
1992 - players go on strike April 1st. But that doesn't count right, because it completely destroys your argument. 3 years later, MLBPA does the same thing and the World Series is lost...
The NHL initial offer is a joke it always has been. Their ploy is to make a ludicrous offer then lock the players out and use their PR firm to make it seem like they are trying to be "fair". They are not trying to be fair.
They have employed the same tactic since Bettman started to run the league. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Why do we have 3 successive lockouts? Do the players lock themselves out? No the league does. That is the tactic they employ and they know how good a tactic it is even if it is a very slimy thing to do.
You guys can just ignore all the facts and history that back this up. You can plug your fingers in your ears and go NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Fact is Fehr wouldnt negotiate until September,which was ridiculous and show bad faith. You Also have had a CBAover the last 20 years that has been so tilted in favor of the players, there was no alternative but to lock out the players because their greed was and is got in their way and desire of wanting to strike any kind of a fair deal.
All of that seems lost on you.
