HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Wsh-chi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2012, 08:06 PM
  #26
capitalsrock
Registered User
 
capitalsrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
I would not say that I don't like reading double negatives.
I was replying to the comment that said that they were no where close, not that comment.

capitalsrock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2012, 08:44 PM
  #27
Morlesio14*
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The 416
Country: North Korea
Posts: 776
vCash: 500
No for Washington. This is beast for Chicago in the future.

Morlesio14* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2012, 08:50 PM
  #28
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
I know Carlson just signed a deal but he isn't untouchable. Caps get a needed top 4 defensive d-man to play with green. Obviously we don't have a surplus of top 6 wingers in our lineup at the moment. Our prospect depth is not the greatest. And we could use an experienced NHL backup to mentor Holtby into becoming the starter.
i think you are wrong on many counts. for instance, who did you have in mind to replace carlson as the partner on the shutdown pair? carlson is in fact untouchable. nobody is going to trade the caps what makes it worth their while to move him in the first place. in the second place, carlson's position on the defense is more important than green's slot.

as a pair alzner and carlson play a more important role than green's pair. it may be that green as an individual carries a bigger load than carlson, but carlson's pair is more important.

or....green is 1. carlson and alzner are 2 and 3. green's partner is 4. you dont trade your 2 to get a 4.

as for holtby needing a veteran backup...i disagree. i think he needs to earn his playing time. neuvirth is a threat to take his job. a veteran back up isnt.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2012, 09:35 PM
  #29
DontToewzMeBro
Registered User
 
DontToewzMeBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,167
vCash: 500
Terrible. Sharp is by far the best player, ad a top Chicago Prospect thrown in? I'd rather have Craw myself, Neuvirth is no upgrade.

DontToewzMeBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2012, 10:21 PM
  #30
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 116,661
vCash: 406
Chicago moves best player in deal and best prospect

No thanks

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
  #31
HockeyTS32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Washington gives up:

Marcus Johansson
John Carlson
Michal Neuvirth
Stanislav Galiev


Chicago gives up:

Niklas Hjalmarsson
Patrick Sharp
Ray Emery
Brandon Saad
IMO, this is a terrible deal for the caps. I'm really surprised a Caps fan would come up with this proposal. While I would like Sharp on the caps, I think the price is too high. For one, his Cap Hit is pretty big, and I'm pretty sure he has a NMC. 2nd, MoJo and Carlson (and a couple others) are the main components of the Caps future. MoJo, if he develops the way the caps want him to, will be the future number 2C. And Carlson, with Alzner, are already becoming a top shutdown defensive pair in the NHL. Carlson and Alzner are virtually untouchable. Galiev has the potentional to become a top 6 winger. And if he doesn't pan out to be a top 6 winger, he will be great on the third line.

HockeyTS32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 10:39 AM
  #32
xX Hot Fuss
Registered User
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,053
vCash: 500
Sharp has a NMC and is the Assistant Captain for the Hawks. Him and his 35-30 seasons are not going anywhere.

...for the 1,000,000th time

xX Hot Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 10:54 AM
  #33
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,917
vCash: 500
Am I missing something?

Sharp is a 30 year old 70 point winger with great intangibles.

Carlson is a 22 year old top pairing D capable of putting up 40 points and shutting down top players.

How is Sharp more valuable?

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 11:30 AM
  #34
HockeyTS32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Am I missing something?

Sharp is a 30 year old 70 point winger with great intangibles.

Carlson is a 22 year old top pairing D capable of putting up 40 points and shutting down top players.

How is Sharp more valuable?
I was honestly thinking the same thing, but didnít want to start an argument with the Hawks fans. But what it comes down to is the Caps value Carlson more than Sharp, and the Hawks value Sharp more than Carlson, so this proposal is a non start with those two players. If the OP would like to make a counter offer without these two players, go ahead, but this proposal is bad for both teams. Once again, Iím not trying to start an argument, but if you look at the cap hits, and the ages of those involved, I would say itís worse of a deal for the caps by giving up players that are the future of the caps for players that are older, and have much bigger cap hits.

HockeyTS32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 12:26 PM
  #35
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyTS32 View Post
I was honestly thinking the same thing, but didnít want to start an argument with the Hawks fans. But what it comes down to is the Caps value Carlson more than Sharp, and the Hawks value Sharp more than Carlson, so this proposal is a non start with those two players. If the OP would like to make a counter offer without these two players, go ahead, but this proposal is bad for both teams. Once again, Iím not trying to start an argument, but if you look at the cap hits, and the ages of those involved, I would say itís worse of a deal for the caps by giving up players that are the future of the caps for players that are older, and have much bigger cap hits.
Yeah it seemed like a poison pill proposal from the get go, though I thought Hawks fans would be more receptive since they'd be set for a decade with Keith-Seabrook/Leddy-Carlson and the 2C issue would be solved for good.

Hawks fans, what about just Hjarmalsson? Can he be available for something out of a pool of Neuvirth, Galiev and future picks?

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #36
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 116,661
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah it seemed like a poison pill proposal from the get go, though I thought Hawks fans would be more receptive since they'd be set for a decade with Keith-Seabrook/Leddy-Carlson and the 2C issue would be solved for good.

Hawks fans, what about just Hjarmalsson? Can he be available for something out of a pool of Neuvirth, Galiev and future picks?
Your discounting the simple reality that Sharp is too important to Hawks now both on ice and in leadership role.. On the ice he is one of the reasons that Hawks can at least consistantly roll 2 lines and in lockeroom he is a leader and team assistant (Also he signed longterm deal to stay here in Chicago)

Also Saad means alot to this organization going forward with regards to LW depth especially with injuries to Morin and Beach not developing

Also not sold on Johansson as a #2 C ,,, He absolutely is brutal at faceoffs and his D still needs alot of work. I honestly think he probably will be a winger longterm not a C. As of right now I woudl say Johansson is a more offensively talented player then Kruger but Kruger is more reliable defensively as #2 C option right now , Both guys suck at faceoffs currently though

And Hammer I think is traded once lockout ends to be honest with Hawks glut of dmen ,, His cap hit is highish and I think the Hawks look to move him

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 12:53 PM
  #37
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Your discounting the simple reality that Sharp is too important to Hawks now both on ice and in leadership role.. On the ice he is one of the reasons that Hawks can at least consistantly roll 2 lines and in lockeroom he is a leader and team assistant (Also he signed longterm deal to stay here in Chicago)

Also Saad means alot to this organization going forward with regards to LW depth especially with injuries to Morin and Beach not developing

Also not sold on Johansson as a #2 C ,,, He absolutely is brutal at faceoffs and his D still needs alot of work. I honestly think he probably will be a winger longterm not a C. As of right now I woudl say Johansson is a more offensively talented player then Kruger but Kruger is more reliable defensively as #2 C option right now , Both guys suck at faceoffs currently though

And Hammer I think is traded once lockout ends to be honest with Hawks glut of dmen ,, His cap hit is highish and I think the Hawks look to move him
Johansson's D is fine. Could be better but he's not a liability by any stretch. Most of his defensive issues are from him not being fully developed physically yet at 21, as he gets handled in the corners (though he doesn't shy away from contact and doesn't get injured from it). He's excellent on the backcheck thanks to his speed and has a good defensive IQ. Faceoffs and better boardwork are about the only thing he needs to work on defensively. Kruger is not better than Johansson defensively, get real.

Having him at wing would be a waste, even if we do decide to go in that direction. He can do more with open ice than the average player and his playmaking abilities would be wasted. He's not particularly cut out for grinding along the boards and doesn't have a killer shot.

What would Hjarmalsson take?

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #38
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 116,661
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Johansson's D is fine. Could be better but he's not a liability by any stretch. Most of his defensive issues are from him not being fully developed physically yet at 21, as he gets handled in the corners (though he doesn't shy away from contact and doesn't get injured from it). He's excellent on the backcheck thanks to his speed and has a good defensive IQ. Faceoffs and better boardwork are about the only thing he needs to work on defensively. Kruger is not better than Johansson defensively, get real.

Having him at wing would be a waste, even if we do decide to go in that direction. He can do more with open ice than the average player and his playmaking abilities would be wasted. He's not particularly cut out for grinding along the boards and doesn't have a killer shot.

What would Hjarmalsson take?
I hate Kruger ,, But I would put his defense ahead of Johansson at this point IMO and Kruger has shown a willingness to take punishment along boards/in front of net (Something I haven't seen from Johansson in my limited viewing)

As for Hammer ,, Probably picks or prospects

The brutal Oduya trade left Hawks without a 2nd and 3rd round pick in coming draft. I expect Hawks would be looking for a pick + solid prospect if they move Hammer

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #39
capitalsrock
Registered User
 
capitalsrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah it seemed like a poison pill proposal from the get go, though I thought Hawks fans would be more receptive since they'd be set for a decade with Keith-Seabrook/Leddy-Carlson and the 2C issue would be solved for good.

Hawks fans, what about just Hjarmalsson? Can he be available for something out of a pool of Neuvirth, Galiev and future picks?
Lol caps get a lot more experience and better from this trade and it's definitely not a poison pill because honestly if hawks fans won't do it than it's not that far off. You are being completely biased and i'm trying to make it so the hawks would actually accept it rather than the old "Galiev, Neuvirth, and future picks" which nobody wants.

capitalsrock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
  #40
capitalsrock
Registered User
 
capitalsrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyTS32 View Post
IMO, this is a terrible deal for the caps. I'm really surprised a Caps fan would come up with this proposal. While I would like Sharp on the caps, I think the price is too high. For one, his Cap Hit is pretty big, and I'm pretty sure he has a NMC. 2nd, MoJo and Carlson (and a couple others) are the main components of the Caps future. MoJo, if he develops the way the caps want him to, will be the future number 2C. And Carlson, with Alzner, are already becoming a top shutdown defensive pair in the NHL. Carlson and Alzner are virtually untouchable. Galiev has the potentional to become a top 6 winger. And if he doesn't pan out to be a top 6 winger, he will be great on the third line.
Johansson isn't a lock for #2C and if Galiev doesn't make the top 6, I don't believe he would be in our bottom 6. Carlson is not untouchable. You people are forgetting that you have to give to get and this is a decent proposal if you're not homering the hell out of your own players so much that you can't realize that they aren't untouchable and there is actually value coming back and guys that could really help out our team.

capitalsrock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #41
capitalsrock
Registered User
 
capitalsrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 2,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i think you are wrong on many counts. for instance, who did you have in mind to replace carlson as the partner on the shutdown pair? carlson is in fact untouchable. nobody is going to trade the caps what makes it worth their while to move him in the first place. in the second place, carlson's position on the defense is more important than green's slot.

as a pair alzner and carlson play a more important role than green's pair. it may be that green as an individual carries a bigger load than carlson, but carlson's pair is more important.

or....green is 1. carlson and alzner are 2 and 3. green's partner is 4. you dont trade your 2 to get a 4.

as for holtby needing a veteran backup...i disagree. i think he needs to earn his playing time. neuvirth is a threat to take his job. a veteran back up isnt.
I personally believe Orlov is going to get a top 4 role and Holtby has already earned the starting position and doesn't need another young goalie to compete with him, but that's just me. There is no way in hell you can tell me Carlson is untouchable because you should look up the definition of that word and then you can tell me that you would reject every single possible trade that came your way for Carlson just because he has good chemistry with Alzner, even though they don't rely on each other to play well. I think Green would play nicely with Alzner and their different styles would compliment each other's and I believe Green is ready to take back his top 2 spot and put injuries behind him so he can be an elite Norris-type defenseman while Alzner is covering for him defensively.

capitalsrock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
  #42
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I hate Kruger ,, But I would put his defense ahead of Johansson at this point IMO and Kruger has shown a willingness to take punishment along boards/in front of net (Something I haven't seen from Johansson in my limited viewing)

As for Hammer ,, Probably picks or prospects

The brutal Oduya trade left Hawks without a 2nd and 3rd round pick in coming draft. I expect Hawks would be looking for a pick + solid prospect if they move Hammer
have you seen a lot of johansson? i think you are making judgements base on too little experience with the player. he doesnt shy away from contact for certain. johansson is on record scoring big playoff goals from in front of the net.

that said, johansson is a speed and quickness player. if you are expecting him to battle keith's and seabrooke's and chara's and gleason's in front of the net, he is going to lose that battle almost everytime purely out of size. he is very likely coached to find another way that will be more successful.

conversely on defense and the penalty kill he covers a lot of ice and knows where to be. at his age to be in the right place and making the right play is a real value. he also has explosive acceleration which makes him an instant odd man rush chance with any turnover. as caps fans we've seen that time and time again.

dont mistake that he doesnt play like backstrom with any unwillingness to compete. backstrom is big and johansson is not.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 01:58 PM
  #43
Halpysback
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Lol caps get a lot more experience and better from this trade and it's definitely not a poison pill because honestly if hawks fans won't do it than it's not that far off. You are being completely biased and i'm trying to make it so the hawks would actually accept it rather than the old "Galiev, Neuvirth, and future picks" which nobody wants.
Hjarmalsson alone for something from Neuvirth, Galiev and picks is reasonable. Hawks fans said as much. Your proposal makes us slightly better in the present (assuming Alzner-Orlov/Hjarmalsson-Green holds up) and destroys us in the future. Carlson is much better than you give him credit for. There's a very good chance he becomes better than Seabrook when he's Seabrook's age. So is Johansson, even though he sucked this year (and still got 46 points) We don't need to overpay for anyone at the expense of core players. All we really need from Chicago is Hjarmalsson. Get him, finally bury the 8 year old issues with the defense, sign a top 6 forward from next year's UFA class, bring Forsberg and Kuznetsov over and we're completely set.

Halpysback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:13 PM
  #44
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,382
vCash: 500
No interest in Neuvirth (or Crawford 2.0)

Take him and Saad out and you are close.

Hawkaholic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #45
HockeyTS32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Johansson isn't a lock for #2C and if Galiev doesn't make the top 6, I don't believe he would be in our bottom 6. Carlson is not untouchable. You people are forgetting that you have to give to get and this is a decent proposal if you're not homering the hell out of your own players so much that you can't realize that they aren't untouchable and there is actually value coming back and guys that could really help out our team.
I don't believe I ever said he was a lock to be #2C. If that's what I said or that's what your interpreting, I'm sorry. I said if he develops the way the caps want him to develop he will be #2C. That is why they drafted him. Yes he needs to bulk up and yes he needs to do better with faceoffs, but if he does develop the way the caps want him to, he will be the #2C. Why do you think the caps go him? To play wing? No they drafted him as a center and want him to be the #2C in the long run.

The fact that you say Carlson is not an untouchable, is unreal to me. Carlson and Alzner are already becoming a great shutdown line in the NHL. I doubt the caps trade away either of them. The only way they would lose either of them is through FA. Who would you say is untouchable for the caps than, with the exception of Ovie and Backstrom?

And just like the guy above me said, yes this proposal might help out the team in the short run, it kills the team in the long run. Not to mention this trade likely wouldn't even take place because of salary cap issue. Do you even know how much the Hawks are paying Sharp right now? I believe his cap hit is in the around 5.8 or so.

HockeyTS32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 03:58 PM
  #46
xX Hot Fuss
Registered User
 
xX Hot Fuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Sharp has a NMC and is the Assistant Captain for the Hawks. Him and his 35-30 seasons are not going anywhere.

...for the 1,000,000th time
It's funny how people ignore the quoted post and continue to argue about something that can never happen

xX Hot Fuss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #47
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 15,480
vCash: 500
Doesn't make any sense for the Capitals. While it would bolster the Caps top six with the addition of Sharp, it creates more problems than it fixes.

Right now, the Caps have three long-term top 4 defensemen (Green, Carlson, Alzner). After the deal, the Caps would still have three, but obviously turning Carlson into Hjalmarsson is a downgrade. I've been a long term advocate of acquiring Hjalmarsson, but removing Carlson to do so doesn't make any sense. And given Green's recent health issues, it would put the Capitals' ability to field a legit top pairing and shutdown pair in serious question. They'd be one elbow or rogue puck away from having to field this on the blueline:
Alzner - Orlov
Hjalmarsson - Hamrlik
Shultz - Hillen

It also puts the Caps behind the 8 ball in terms of a long term 2C again. Ribeiro is only signed through this (locked out) season, and can walk away afterwards. Not to mention he has yet to play a single game in the Caps uniform. Johansson is still the best in-house solution for a long term second line center. Until Ribeiro proves he meshes with Washington and signs a contract extension, Johansson is a highly valuable asset to the organization.

Saad would only serve to further bolster what is, by far, the strongest position in the pipeline. The Caps already have two excellent winger prospects in Forsberg and Kuznetsov, and with the emergence of Barber and Wilson's offensive progress they have solid depth behind them even without Galiev. While nobody would object to adding Saad to that pool, making him a target is not a priority for the organization.

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
  #48
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 25,791
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Anyone taking Kruger over Johansson as our #2 center needs to watch more Caps games. He's what Pirri hopes to be+, and the Hawk regulars will know I consider that a pretty big compliment.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 05:35 PM
  #49
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 25,791
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
I'd like something around Hammer for Johansson. We don't need a collection of decent prospects, we are overflowing with those.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-11-2012, 07:10 PM
  #50
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Anyone taking Kruger over Johansson as our #2 center needs to watch more Caps games. He's what Pirri hopes to be+, and the Hawk regulars will know I consider that a pretty big compliment.
thumbs up.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.