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Paajarvi - where do you see him in 5 years?

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Old
12-10-2012, 09:36 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I think he will meet the 30pt, 3rd line projection most are giving him, but it won't be here. He will make a fine 3rd liner on a team already possessing size and grit throughout their lineup (BOS, LAK, STL), but we need more grit in our bottom 6 because of the void in our top 6. We don't have a Backes/Lucic type that can allow for balance in the bottom 6.
Could have swore he already accomplished that in his rookie season.

I guess that doesn't count anymore because he struggled so much last season with Belanger as his main center and Renney as coach.

I think because of him coming from Sweden in a very system oriented gameplan he has struggled at the NHL level to find out what his role is on the ice and where he should be. He much to often is peeling out of the offensive zone when he should be attacking. His game has been much better in the AHL and those who have actually watched him will agree. He is almost a ppg player and putting up better point totals in a secondary role than many of his peers around the league are in a primary role.

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12-10-2012, 09:37 PM
  #102
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He will be in Detroit and will be a quality 3rd liner

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12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
  #103
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He will be in Detroit and will be a quality 3rd liner
I think if he played on Detroit last season under a quality coach like Babcock who runs a system based on his players and their abilities he would have been a quality 3rd liner.

People dont realize that the development of a prospect by the team who drafted a player outside of the top 5 or so picks in a draft is extremely important. So far the Oilers have not helped his development much. First sending him back to Sweden instead of putting him in OKC to learn the NA game, which he still is struggling with. Then putting him in a defensive role where the game plan is to not get scored on and dont turnover the puck, and hope the team can score on the PP. Then when he is obviously struggling and everyone in the world can see he should be sent to OKC, they keep him up for another 20 games, give him one or two shifts on the top line, where he looks great, then put him back with Belanger for 20 games.

It will be really interesting to see if his play is any different coming out of the lockout after some time in OKC with a good X's and O's coach in Nelson instead of a hugs and cookies coach like Renney. i'm also eager to see a Kruger coached team as he has always been highly regarded as a systems guy and might know how to better handle Euro players.

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12-10-2012, 10:43 PM
  #104
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Agreed. MPS is nowhere near the defensive wizard that some posters like to claim. Personally I think the reason for that is the same one that Eytinge identified in his excellent post earlier - they are so desperate for this player to succeed that they latch onto any slight positive and make a mountain out of it.

As for the Jones comparison .... in a word, ridiculous. If MPS had half of the hustle and desire that Jones shows he would have already cemented an NHL roster spot. Jones goes to the net more in a weeks worth of games than MPS has in his 120 NHL game resume.
Jones hustle IMO has been very hit and miss. The bottom line is that Paajarvi will be waiver eligible after this season and a decision will have to be made sooner rather than later. Jones' contract ends at the end of this season as will his $1.8 million contract. So my question is this, if Paajarvi continues to get stronger and grittier do you cut ties with him and keep Jones? Do you see room for both in our bottom 6?

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12-11-2012, 12:16 AM
  #105
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excellent post LOL! It described Paajarvi's play last season in a 3rd line defensive role very well. Welcome to the 2012-13 season. You should check it out. I actually would bet you havent watched a shift he has taken in the AHL ever.

I can remember 3 or 4 plays from last season where Paajarvi took huge hits to make plays or get the puck deep, one from Matt Greene specifically. Maybe he caught an edge and went offside? Dont make me show the Sam Gagner/Steve Ott youtube clip.
3 or 4 eh? Very impressive . Don't make me show the Sam Gagner 8 point night clip.

I'm not going to watch a crappy stream for 3 hours on my laptop just to feed my Oilers craze, kudos to those that are doing it and good on ya but I can do without it. Maybe I'm taking my anger about the lockout out on the AHL or something I don't know but this work stoppage has left a bad taste in my mouth about pro hockey. If you consider yourself more of a fan than me because you're watching OKC hockey, go ahead. I'm not looking to validate my fandom or something lol.

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12-11-2012, 12:47 AM
  #106
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I don't think Paajarvi is much of a defensive specialist at all at the NHL level. Just a low event player who plays it safe far too often. Who has no confidence offensively. I don't recall him ever killing penalties at the NHL level. If he's getting his feet wet at the AHL level, and his minus rating is due to playing the toughs, then maybe there's hope for him. But I'll be shocked if he turns out to be anything more than a depth player or injury replacement. If you can't bury goals in the minors, you don't have much hope in the bigs.

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12-11-2012, 12:56 AM
  #107
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-paajarvi has been coached about as poorly as is possible thus far..
the oilers have had the poorest coaches in the league for about 3 season running now..
-paajarvi has had some of the poorest linemates as have been possible in the league thus far in his entire career.. the oilers have had the worst producing team in the league for as far as my short term memory can recall...
-paajarvi has been under-developed physically since his time in the NHL, and has been pushed around and knocked off the puck repeatedly, thereby forcing him to change his game and lose his confidence...

once these 3 things are changed then he will become a decent 2nd line/special teams guy...

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12-11-2012, 01:40 AM
  #108
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So what did he do in his first season that he isn't doing now? How could he put up some good numbers for a rookie on one of the worst NHL teams ever ice and be as bad as some of you claim he is? He's obviously a soft player, I'm sure he was when he was drafted, I'm sure scouts knew that. He must have been drafted for a different reason than that, there are some positives to his game and some good raw skills that will eventually blossom. Euros take longer to develop, he's only 21.

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12-11-2012, 04:01 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Jones hustle IMO has been very hit and miss. The bottom line is that Paajarvi will be waiver eligible after this season and a decision will have to be made sooner rather than later. Jones' contract ends at the end of this season as will his $1.8 million contract. So my question is this, if Paajarvi continues to get stronger and grittier do you cut ties with him and keep Jones? Do you see room for both in our bottom 6?
If my choice is Jones or Paajarvi, I'm going with Jones without batting an eye ... next year for sure.

I thought MPS had a strong game against the Rampage the first night, and a good first period the second night. Nice read on his goal cruising through the slot, and being ready for the pass and getting his shot away quickly. I've watched almost every game (missed two or three) and I wonder if you would agree that there are still too many nights when he is all but invisible. That's scary to me.

I will also agree that I've seen him throw maybe five or six good solid hits thus far, which is about five or six more than I ever saw him throw in the NHL. You say that proves he's getting grittier and stronger .... and I'll have to take your word for that since prior to this season I only watched him play two or three games in the AHL.

Still, he should be able to dominate physically in the AHL - at least from time to time. He's not doing that anywhere near the level that Hartikainen is. I wonder what will happen to his gritty play when he's again faced with NHL d-men. I suspect he will fold his tent and elect to stay on the outside as he did in the past.

I just don't see the makings of a good NHL player here BBO. You know that has been my stance even during his rookie season. I think its highly unlikely that the Oilers let him walk just yet though simply because he is still young enough to turn it around ... and they spent a high pick on him.

No room for him in Edmonton right now so he has to be willing to stay in the AHL. One thing you can't fault the kid on is his attitude so I can't see one more AHL season souring him on the organization.

As for Jones .... I sure hope the Oilers resign him. Since he joined the team I watched many games where he seemed like the only guy in copper and blue who actually gave a **** no matter what the score was. Plus its always nice to see a player stick it to advanced stats crowd the way he did last season.

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I'm not going to watch a crappy stream for 3 hours on my laptop just to feed my Oilers craze.
I hear you. I didn't think I'd be doing it either, but what can I say. I need some hockey.
The stream isn't nearly as bad as all the complainers make it out to be. In fact I feel that the pic quality has improved dramatically since the start of the season. They even now show replays and have a game clock on the screen. I'd encourage you to give it a look one night of you have nothing else to do .... its worth it just to see how Schultz is ripping up the league. Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't consider you less of a fan for not watching, just saying the stream's not as bad as you might think.


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12-11-2012, 05:24 AM
  #110
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I think his growing pains could prove golden for this team going forward. I doubt they give up on him and I doubt he'll get much of a payday which will work wonders for our cap. And I do believe he'll find his game, but he'll need time. He lacks confidence. He's the kind of guy who's always been consider a great talent, he's always been moving up, no real set backs and even in his first NHL he's doing fine, ok numbers for a rookie, solid defensively, clearly has a lot to work on but still good enough for a rookie and then along comes his second year and BAM suddenly he hits a wall, he doesn't find his groove and everyone starts pointing out what needs improvement, "crash the net", "work on you shot", "be more physical" and so on. And since he's an ambitious player and always has been he tries to listen to all this and change it and completely loses his game and his confidence along with it. And for the first time in his career he's going uphill.

I think if he can find his confidence and starts working through his issues one at the time he'll be fine. He's never been a natural scorer but he's shown in spurts that he can put up points. He's hands aren't world class but they're way better than he's been getting credit for here lately. He has decent playmaking ability. His wrister needs improvement but he shows glimpses that makes me think there's something there to work on.
He'll probably never be close to a ppg player but he doesn't have to be considering our fire power up front. I think unless managment totally mishandles him he'll be a great contributer for this team, 3rd liner who PKs and fills in the top six and PP at times. Career year he might push around 60 points but probably hoovers around 30-40 points once he settles in the NHL. This ofc depends on where in the line up you put him.
He'll be fine.

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12-11-2012, 07:47 AM
  #111
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3 or 4 eh? Very impressive . Don't make me show the Sam Gagner 8 point night clip.

I'm not going to watch a crappy stream for 3 hours on my laptop just to feed my Oilers craze, kudos to those that are doing it and good on ya but I can do without it. Maybe I'm taking my anger about the lockout out on the AHL or something I don't know but this work stoppage has left a bad taste in my mouth about pro hockey. If you consider yourself more of a fan than me because you're watching OKC hockey, go ahead. I'm not looking to validate my fandom or something lol.
He's not questioning your fandom.
I think he's questioning your opinion of Paajarvi since you admittedly haven't seen him play once this season.

I don't see the big improvement in Paajarvi's game that Nabob sees but he is becoming somewhat more physically engaged and has driven the net more than in seasons past. I think putting him with grinders like Hartikainen and Lander has done a lot to help his game because he now has space to operate in the offensive zone and can play well in a support role.
He still struggles with offensive creativity but he doesn't need to be an offensively creative player, the Oilers are loaded with those types. People need to get out of their head that he was a high 1st rounder and stop judging him based on his draft pedigree.

If he can play well on the cycle, chip in some offense while being a defensively responsible player then he will be a fine NHLer whether it's here or elsewhere.
I, like others, can see the Nordic Line being a solid 3rd line in the NHL. There have been times when they have been the best Barons line, they spend a lot of time in the offensive zone and are effective at wearing down the opposition.

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12-11-2012, 08:19 AM
  #112
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Poor guy, apparently when you are taken that high you have to jump right in and put up 50+ points. It's not like all players develop at the same rate. The only other forward in 2009 taken after Paajarvi that has played over 100 games is Marcus Johansson (24), Ryan O'Reilly (33) and Kyle Clifford (35). Sure, he is having a rough time but just because he isnt a 1st liner doesn't mean he should be written off.

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12-11-2012, 08:29 AM
  #113
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Poor guy, apparently when you are taken that high you have to jump right in and put up 50+ points. It's not like all players develop at the same rate. The only other forward in 2009 taken after Paajarvi that has played over 100 games is Marcus Johansson (24), Ryan O'Reilly (33) and Kyle Clifford (35). Sure, he is having a rough time but just because he isnt a 1st liner doesn't mean he should be written off.
The alarming thing is he looked better when he first got here than he does now.

Ala Gagner.

It looked like he lost all his confidence last year and he hasnt gotten it back. I think what happened last year, how he struggled to start the season, in the Belanger triangle, Renney could well have ruined him. Some guys never recover.

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12-11-2012, 08:35 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The alarming thing is he looked better when he first got here than he does now.

Ala Gagner.

It looked like he lost all his confidence last year and he hasnt gotten it back. I think what happened last year, how he struggled to start the season, in the Belanger triangle, Renney could well have ruined him. Some guys never recover.
Yeah that could be true, I think (hope) that one year of awful coaching can be forgotten by him. The thing with Swedes is their development system basically streamlines and **** sucks these good young players into trophies so they never have to work for anything or face any adversity. Then when they come over here they don't know the game or the players and they can't make it on pure skill and the system they've played their entire life is different, so they get a reality check and sometimes never get over it, but if they do, they become a fantastic player. I can't predict what will happen, but I don't think it's time to bail on this guy yet.

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12-11-2012, 09:02 AM
  #115
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-paajarvi has been coached about as poorly as is possible thus far..
the oilers have had the poorest coaches in the league for about 3 season running now..
-paajarvi has had some of the poorest linemates as have been possible in the league thus far in his entire career.. the oilers have had the worst producing team in the league for as far as my short term memory can recall...
-paajarvi has been under-developed physically since his time in the NHL, and has been pushed around and knocked off the puck repeatedly, thereby forcing him to change his game and lose his confidence...

once these 3 things are changed then he will become a decent 2nd line/special teams guy...
The good old blame it on everything else other than the actual main issue.

I don't understand how one can say he was under-developed physically since his time in the NHL yet there was no issue with this in his rookie year.

Not writing the guy off, but he's the one that has to step up. He's 200lbs now and playing against weaker competition than last year. He needs to find a way to be more effective. Maybe it's because of ice-time I don't know.

I do know that it's all on Magnus not everything around him.

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12-11-2012, 09:13 AM
  #116
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Yeah that could be true, I think (hope) that one year of awful coaching can be forgotten by him. The thing with Swedes is their development system basically streamlines and **** sucks these good young players into trophies so they never have to work for anything or face any adversity. Then when they come over here they don't know the game or the players and they can't make it on pure skill and the system they've played their entire life is different, so they get a reality check and sometimes never get over it, but if they do, they become a fantastic player. I can't predict what will happen, but I don't think it's time to bail on this guy yet.
We also have North Americans like Plante, Hamilton, and Pitlick struggling as well in our system.

Not all these guys are going to pan out of course, but it would be nice if some of them would. If not we are going to be in for it going forward.

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12-11-2012, 09:14 AM
  #117
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The good old blame it on everything else other than the actual main issue.

I don't understand how one can say he was under-developed physically since his time in the NHL yet there was no issue with this in his rookie year.

Not writing the guy off, but he's the one that has to step up. He's 200lbs now and playing against weaker competition than last year. He needs to find a way to be more effective. Maybe it's because of ice-time I don't know.

I do know that it's all on Magnus not everything around him.
I would say Hartikainen is the best player on that line this year. Its not even close really. That is how far Paajarvi has fallen. Lander has been disappointing as well.

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12-11-2012, 09:24 AM
  #118
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The good old blame it on everything else other than the actual main issue.

I don't understand how one can say he was under-developed physically since his time in the NHL yet there was no issue with this in his rookie year.

Not writing the guy off, but he's the one that has to step up. He's 200lbs now and playing against weaker competition than last year. He needs to find a way to be more effective. Maybe it's because of ice-time I don't know.

I do know that it's all on Magnus not everything around him.
200lbs is nothing if he's going to be a power forward the kid needs to be around 215lbs at least. Kid still has lots of growing left.

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12-11-2012, 09:35 AM
  #119
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200lbs is nothing if he's going to be a power forward the kid needs to be around 215lbs at least. Kid still has lots of growing left.
We'll he's 204 to be exact, but this whole the kid is getting pushed around is quite pathetic when you compare his size to others.

I agree he has a lot of developing to do, but he should be better right now and there are things he could do to be better now.

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12-11-2012, 09:37 AM
  #120
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I would say Hartikainen is the best player on that line this year. Its not even close really. That is how far Paajarvi has fallen. Lander has been disappointing as well.
I don't know that Hartikainen being better is that bad. I mean the guy was told what his weaknesses were and worked on him. From day one we all heard that he needed to get faster and once he did he'd have a spot. Eberle is another who had a weakness and worked on it. Marincin same thing.

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12-11-2012, 09:54 AM
  #121
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We'll he's 204 to be exact, but this whole the kid is getting pushed around is quite pathetic when you compare his size to others.

I agree he has a lot of developing to do, but he should be better right now and there are things he could do to be better now.
Well hes still pretty lanky, and the defenseman who are tossing him around are probably bigger then him. If you look at the historical development path of Swedish players they usually break out at 24 years old.

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12-11-2012, 11:19 AM
  #122
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We also have North Americans like Plante, Hamilton, and Pitlick struggling as well in our system.

Not all these guys are going to pan out of course, but it would be nice if some of them would. If not we are going to be in for it going forward.
I was thinking about this as well. At some point, we can't rely on just our 1st overall picks. The realy reason why we are struggling is because our depth picks still have to make the NHL.

Paajarvi-Lander-Rieder
Hamilton-Pitlick-Zharkov
Moroz-Ewaynk- Hartikainen

Klefbom-Musil
Marincin-Gernat
Simpson-Teubert

At some point some of these kids are going to have to make it.

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12-11-2012, 11:43 AM
  #123
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I was thinking about this as well. At some point, we can't rely on just our 1st overall picks. The realy reason why we are struggling is because our depth picks still have to make the NHL.

Paajarvi-Lander-Rieder
Hamilton-Pitlick-Zharkov
Moroz-Ewaynk- Hartikainen

Klefbom-Musil
Marincin-Gernat
Simpson-Teubert

At some point some of these kids are going to have to make it.
We seem to have no plan if they don't. Instead we just play kids that aren't ready.

To this day not signing Blair Betts still irks me. Guy could've been had for one year 700k at any point during the summer, but no we rather Potulny, Brule, Pouilot and even Zach ****ing Stortini line up at center.

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12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #124
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We also have North Americans like Plante, Hamilton, and Pitlick struggling as well in our system.

Not all these guys are going to pan out of course, but it would be nice if some of them would. If not we are going to be in for it going forward.
Agrees. We're ****ed if we can develop our own depth players. There's no way we can afford to sign them as premium priced FAs with the money we'll have tied in Hall, RNH etc. I hope some of MacGregors late round projects start working out.

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12-11-2012, 11:52 AM
  #125
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Edit^ typo: **cant develop our own depth players.

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