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Lockout IV: One likes to believe in the freedom of hockey (Moderated: see post #2)

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:53 AM
  #251
haseoke39
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I had a nightmare last night that the two parties settled their differences amicably and put on a 60 games season.

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12-11-2012, 10:55 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
The OP was trying to allege that the different taxes the player pays are more than what a normal person would.
These articles seem to indicate that they do (granted, I am sick as a dog and have been up half the night so I might have misread them, but I don't think that I did):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...148105674.html


http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwo...-pro-athletes/


http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwo...r-pro-golfers/

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:57 AM
  #253
Turbofan
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Wait so now it's 50% instead of 43% in taxes? I thought we established throughout these threads that there is a huge difference between 50% and 43%. Also 50% is not a number we should feel sorry about the players getting.

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12-11-2012, 11:02 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
I don't think you people realize the damage Bettman has had on hockey. His seems to be an anti-Canada agenda
Which is why he instituted the Canadian assistance plan in the 90s (without which the several of teh small-market Canadian teams would have been forced to move), helped stabilize ownership in Edmonton and then in Ottawa when the Sens were bankrupt, and helped facilitate the move of the Thrashers to Winnipeg.

It's because he's so anti-Canadian.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:05 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
To be more moderate, why not make the players at least partially-responsible for the insurance costs of contracts over 5 years, perhaps on an increasing scale the farther past 5 they go (to a maximum of 8)? That way, the PA gets their desired contract lengths, and the owners have a way to minimize their costs insuring those contracts...
I don't think the whole issue is insurance (although I still firmly believe that's a part of it). Part of it comes back to parity, and what a richer team can afford over a poorer team. I think at some point the variance will change drastically from 5% to somewhere in the 25-50% range (the difference between the highest & lowest years).

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12-11-2012, 11:08 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Which is why he instituted the Canadian assistance plan in the 90s (without which the several of teh small-market Canadian teams would have been forced to move), helped stabilize ownership in Edmonton and then in Ottawa when the Sens were bankrupt, and helped facilitate the move of the Thrashers to Winnipeg.

It's because he's so anti-Canadian.
Yeah it's a bit of a simplistic view IMHO. He's an easy target, easy to dislike. Frankly a lot of us angry Canadians needed a guy to hate, someone who represented all the things we dislike about big, bad corporate America (and none of the things we like about America).

Nowadays I think he's just trying to do his job.

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12-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #257
madhi19
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I had a nightmare last night that the two parties settled their differences amicably and put on a 60 games season.
What wrong with a Stanley Cup Final in August? loll

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12-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I don't think the whole issue is insurance (although I still firmly believe that's a part of it). Part of it comes back to parity, and what a richer team can afford over a poorer team. I think at some point the variance will change drastically from 5% to somewhere in the 25-50% range (the difference between the highest & lowest years).
Oh, of course insurance is only part of it -- hell, it might even be a red herring at this point.

Unfortunately, there's always going to be richer and poorer teams, and only so much can be done to create "parity" under those circumstances (entirely different and altogether larger can of worms)...

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12-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Oh, of course insurance is only part of it -- hell, it might even be a red herring at this point.

Unfortunately, there's always going to be richer and poorer teams, and only so much can be done to create "parity" under those circumstances (entirely different and altogether larger can of worms)...
Also parity suck! Parity is lowering the bar so that everybody is happy. Now it all fine and good... If you're a five years old playing soccer but this is a pro-sports league. Some fans are getting the big hand of the parity stick ram right where the sun don't shine. Am all for parity when it start at the ticket booths! Otherwise it just screwing one group of fans in order to please another.

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12-11-2012, 12:17 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Yeah it's a bit of a simplistic view IMHO. He's an easy target, easy to dislike. Frankly a lot of us angry Canadians needed a guy to hate, someone who represented all the things we dislike about big, bad corporate America (and none of the things we like about America).

Nowadays I think he's just trying to do his job.
Bettman is Zaphod Beeblebrox
He draws the attention away from the owners when they make mistakes and lets them have credit when things go right. That way the fans can love their teams and the owners without hating them for being part of the lockout or rule changes or ...

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12-11-2012, 12:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by onlyalad View Post
Bettman is Zaphod Beeblebrox
He draws the attention away from the owners when they make mistakes and lets them have credit when things go right. That way the fans can love their teams and the owners without hating them for being part of the lockout or rule changes or ...
Bettman gets paid very well ( $7.8M per year ) to have a target on his back. He has no problem with us hating him.

Hell, I'll take all the blame for the current lockout... And I'll do it for 1/10th of what Bettman makes.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:25 PM
  #262
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Why is it that someone (the NHL?) said that insurance recently changed from 7 to 5 years?
Someone may have simply been misinformed or mistaken?


Last edited by mouser: 12-11-2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: qdp
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12-11-2012, 12:28 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Also parity suck! Parity is lowering the bar so that everybody is happy. Now it all fine and good... If you're a five years old playing soccer but this is a pro-sports league. Some fans are getting the big hand of the parity stick ram right where the sun don't shine. Am all for parity when it start at the ticket booths! Otherwise it just screwing one group of fans in order to please another.
Perhaps the fans of the teams that charge too much for tickets should boycott and force lower prices. If enough people refuse to pay that much and stay away, seems the supply/demand theory would dictate that prices would drop to lure the fans back.

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12-11-2012, 12:29 PM
  #264
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Tweet re: informal player practices that have been going on for some time at the Ice Sports Forum in Brandon (Erik is one of the beat writers covering the Lightning::


Erik Erlendsson ‏@erlendssonTBO
Frustration or preparation? MT @MolinariPG: 2-on-2 battle drills in front of net Things are getting bit more physical than during scrimmage

https://twitter.com/erlendssonTBO/st...37233320013824

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:56 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
These articles seem to indicate that they do (granted, I am sick as a dog and have been up half the night so I might have misread them, but I don't think that I did):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...148105674.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwo...-pro-athletes/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwo...r-pro-golfers/
None of these articles compare pro athletes with "normal people".

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12-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Also parity suck! Parity is lowering the bar so that everybody is happy. Now it all fine and good... If you're a five years old playing soccer but this is a pro-sports league. Some fans are getting the big hand of the parity stick ram right where the sun don't shine. Am all for parity when it start at the ticket booths! Otherwise it just screwing one group of fans in order to please another.
I gotta agree with you. When a fan pays $100 for a ticket, and in anther city the fan pays $33, does the fan who pays three times as much not deserve a better product?

It's amazing how we are so anti-socialism with society, but pro with our sports leagues.

I think there is enough parity that has been established with the CBA rules, to think that the insurance cost difference on a 5 year and 8 year contracts are going to disturb the balance of parity in the league is ridiculous. If that is the only advantage that a wealthy team has over a poor team then give it to them. That difference isn't going to make one team the Yankees and the other the Pirates.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post

Nowadays I think he's just trying to do his job.
Trying and doing are two different things.

Bettman is an epic failure as league commissioner.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:02 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Perhaps the fans of the teams that charge too much for tickets should boycott and force lower prices. If enough people refuse to pay that much and stay away, seems the supply/demand theory would dictate that prices would drop to lure the fans back.
Problem with supply and demand is inversing the leader. If supply is high and demand low, cost go down. If supply is low and demand is high, costs go up.

And currently the markes charging big prices are ones where the demand is so high and in some cases still growing, while the supply is stable. Bringing the demand down to even things up is doable for sure, but it's a pretty hard, exausting and high risk job.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:03 PM
  #269
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I gotta agree with you. When a fan pays $100 for a ticket, and in anther city the fan pays $33, does the fan who pays three times as much not deserve a better product?

It's amazing how we are so anti-socialism with society, but pro with our sports leagues.

I think there is enough parity that has been established with the CBA rules, to think that the insurance cost difference on a 5 year and 8 year contracts are going to disturb the balance of parity in the league is ridiculous. If that is the only advantage that a wealthy team has over a poor team then give it to them. That difference isn't going to make one team the Yankees and the other the Pirates.
We're only "socialists" when it comes to making sure your favorite team can afford good players.
But hell if a Nashville Predators' fan should have to pay what a Leafs' fan has to pay.

People talk a lot about Fehr brainwashing the players.

What's clear to me is that corporate America has brainwashed the public, which consistently argues the case for corporate America (and, less so, Corporate Canada) even when its against their own interest.

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12-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #270
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Being liked is probably the #1 thing for commissioners.

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12-11-2012, 01:16 PM
  #271
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I personally can't believe that people pay that much to go to hockey games in Toronto. High prices are the exact reason I stopped to going to MLB games around here, it's just not worth it once the price gets too high.

If it costs too much, just don't go.

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12-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #272
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Another myth that players who make a million or more only get 50 percent?Most of the money is invested in trust accounts the tax they pay is considerably lower than most think.It would take average canadian to work 90 yrs for a top 6 players make in one year.

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12-11-2012, 01:38 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyJ View Post
I gotta agree with you. When a fan pays $100 for a ticket, and in anther city the fan pays $33, does the fan who pays three times as much not deserve a better product?

It's amazing how we are so anti-socialism with society, but pro with our sports leagues.

I think there is enough parity that has been established with the CBA rules, to think that the insurance cost difference on a 5 year and 8 year contracts are going to disturb the balance of parity in the league is ridiculous. If that is the only advantage that a wealthy team has over a poor team then give it to them. That difference isn't going to make one team the Yankees and the other the Pirates.
No because ticket prices are set according to the market. You pay 100 dollars for a ticket becuase a lot of people in your area wnat tickets: it has nothing to do with the quality of the product.

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12-11-2012, 01:41 PM
  #274
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I agree but why are tv prices lower compared to 20 yrs after inflation?

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:45 PM
  #275
No Fun Shogun
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Originally Posted by CrazyJ View Post
I gotta agree with you. When a fan pays $100 for a ticket, and in anther city the fan pays $33, does the fan who pays three times as much not deserve a better product?
No offense, but if the fan that's paying three times as much for his tickets isn't happy with the quality of what he's seeing, then he should stop paying for it. Or be mad at the organization that's charging so much and yet putting a similar, or inferior, product on the ice compared to a team that's charging a third.

Getting upset at the system when everyone else abides by said system is fairly nonsensical.

And can we get over what anybody deserves, please? Fans, players, owners, teams, markets, etc. deserve nothing. They get what they get, put up with what they put up with, and get away with what they can get away with. Nothing more, nothing less.


Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 12-11-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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