Visentin was more of a Liability then a sure shot goalie. Beukeboom was non existent and continues to be so.
Alot of the Niagara core has matured and they can really light up the scoreboard.
London isnt any clear cut favourite to advance to Mem Cup.
Anyone see last Friday's game? London 5 Niagara 2. London dominated them. I'd be happy to see a rematch in the final again, and I'd love our chances. I know it's only one game, but I like our odds.
Niagara needs more than just a player or two to compete with London, Owen Sound, heck I even think Guelph would beat them in a 7 game series.
Last edited by Knights77: 12-11-2012 at 11:35 AM.
Reason: missed word
Ramon Lopez has filed a trade request from Saginaw
What would the asking price be? Kingston might be interested if they could get him cheap enough as they are getting short of Dmen and a 95 would work with the rebuilding plan.
Hypothetically, which teams would be interested in Murphy, Gibson, Puempel and Reider(I)?
These players would generate a land slide for Kitchener. I'd even trade them to London! Pretty sure Gibson would backstop them to a Mem Cup to be quite honest. Problem is I see London bidding for the Mem Cup next year, and in that case, will want to retain as much youth and picks as possible, and Bailie and Patterson have done a fine job as it is.
Any teams have needs these players would fill? Thomson could be had as well, though he is a nice O/A candidate for next year.
Hypothetically, which teams would be interested in Murphy, Gibson, Puempel and Reider(I)?
These players would generate a land slide for Kitchener. I'd even trade them to London! Pretty sure Gibson would backstop them to a Mem Cup to be quite honest. Problem is I see London bidding for the Mem Cup next year, and in that case, will want to retain as much youth and picks as possible, and Bailie and Patterson have done a fine job as it is.
Any teams have needs these players would fill? Thomson could be had as well, though he is a nice O/A candidate for next year.
I agree with your points regarding London. I could see them parting with Jammes, Pawley quite easily but that wouldn't be enough for those names. Even if we added 2 to 3 second round picks I am not sure it could land any of them.
I think Oshawa should make a move for these guys. G- Appleby, D- Hore, F- Dal Colle, F- Latour and two 2nd rd picks, 2 5th round picks for the four of em (Murphy, Gibson, Puempel and Reider). This would make Oshawa an instand favourtie out of the East and give Boone Jenner a nice send off in his last year.
With that said, you would get more if you traded each of these players individually to different teams, I'm just not sure that there is that many suitable buyers that can pay the price.
Anyone see last Friday's game? London 5 Niagara 2. London dominated them. I'd be happy to see a rematch in the final again, and I'd love our chances. I know it's only one game, but I like our odds.
Niagara needs more than just a player or two to compete with London, Owen Sound, heck I even think Guelph would beat them in a 7 game series.
They stayed out of the box and iced the puck the whole third and kind of hung on. Without the giveaway and the empty netter it was a one goal game. Marty got out coached by a Hunter once again.
Why London insists on playing that boring trap style is beyond me? I know it works but that team is good enough to win the league without resorting to that. They must of iced the puck 20 times in the third period Friday.
I agree with your points regarding London. I could see them parting with Jammes, Pawley quite easily but that wouldn't be enough for those names. Even if we added 2 to 3 second round picks I am not sure it could land any of them.
I think Oshawa should make a move for these guys. G- Appleby, D- Hore, F- Dal Colle, F- Latour and two 2nd rd picks, 2 5th round picks for the four of em (Murphy, Gibson, Puempel and Reider). This would make Oshawa an instand favourtie out of the East and give Boone Jenner a nice send off in his last year.
With that said, you would get more if you traded each of these players individually to different teams, I'm just not sure that there is that many suitable buyers that can pay the price.
If I'm Spott, I make this deal in a heartbeat. Dal Colle is the real deal, he will be better than Puempel or Rieder. These players are all gone after this year and even with them Kitchener isn't going anywhere.
If I'm Spott, I make this deal in a heartbeat. Dal Colle is the real deal, he will be better than Puempel or Rieder. These players are all gone after this year and even with them Kitchener isn't going anywhere.
You would have to throw in Cassels, DalColle, Altshuller, some draft picks and some prospects for the Kitchener 4.
Even with acquiring those guys, Oshawa will still find a way of screwing it up.
3 weeks ago Mississauga were buyers, and now?? I think they may have realized that they are sellers, and could possibly part ways with Percy, Demelo, Brace, Cord.
The Missy 4 can possibly help out Niagara or Oshawa, but would need to have 2 OA spots available.
Seems like a useless trade for both teams. Just shuffling the deck and mgmt trying to motivate fans??
Chewer
This was your quote re Spitfire trade with Peterborough
Murphy has 8 pts in 8 games including 2 game winners,while Lorentz has not scored 3 pts in 8 games plus 2 shootout goals
Spits who were sputtering before trade are 5-2-0-1 since
Devlin has 3 assists in 8 games,and we know what happened to Schoenmakers,though the Petes have played much better since trade as well
Murphy for Windsor has been the answer to the teams needs on pp,something Bateman and Mcnaughton were not doing
Do u still think it was a useless trade for both teams or shall i serve u up some crow
This was your quote re Spitfire trade with Peterborough
Murphy has 8 pts in 8 games including 2 game winners,while Lorentz has not scored 3 pts in 8 games plus 2 shootout goals
Spits who were sputtering before trade are 5-2-0-1 since
Devlin has 3 assists in 8 games,and we know what happened to Schoenmakers,though the Petes have played much better since trade as well
Murphy for Windsor has been the answer to the teams needs on pp,something Bateman and Mcnaughton were not doing
Do u still think it was a useless trade for both teams or shall i serve u up some crow
Trade helped both teams.
For Peterborough:
- Got Rid of a Offensive Defenseman, who did not want to play their in the first place.
- Added someone to help out G Michael Giugovaz in their own end + provide some offense.
For Windsor:
- Got a puck moving, offensive defenseman who has provided much needed scoring
- Got rid of an OA who judging by the situation, can't be good for any team.
- Got rid of Devlin, who wasn't performing.
Even though Schoenmakers didn't work out for the Petes, the trade was still good being that it's helped both teams, minus the fact that it goes against EVERYTHING the Petes should be trying to do which is to get younger.
I still think Devlin for Murphy, 1 for 1, disregarding the fact that we now know Schoenmakers didn't show, would have been better.
Hypothetically, which teams would be interested in Murphy, Gibson, Puempel and Reider(I)?
These players would generate a land slide for Kitchener. I'd even trade them to London! Pretty sure Gibson would backstop them to a Mem Cup to be quite honest. Problem is I see London bidding for the Mem Cup next year, and in that case, will want to retain as much youth and picks as possible, and Bailie and Patterson have done a fine job as it is.
Any teams have needs these players would fill? Thomson could be had as well, though he is a nice O/A candidate for next year.
I might move him too. No point keeping him around as an OA for next year when there is a possibility he goes the way Crescenzi did.
But then again, Crescenzi, who is languishing away in the ECHL instead of being returned to the OHL is another example of the Leaf "braintrust" in action.
They actually run a fine operation in New Jersey so if Thomson were to be cut from their AHL team, he'd be sent back here.
For Peterborough:
- Got Rid of a Offensive Defenseman, who did not want to play their in the first place.
- Added someone to help out G Michael Giugovaz in their own end + provide some offense.
For Windsor:
- Got a puck moving, offensive defenseman who has provided much needed scoring
- Got rid of an OA who judging by the situation, can't be good for any team.
- Got rid of Devlin, who wasn't performing.
Even though Schoenmakers didn't work out for the Petes, the trade was still good being that it's helped both teams, minus the fact that it goes against EVERYTHING the Petes should be trying to do which is to get younger.
I still think Devlin for Murphy, 1 for 1, disregarding the fact that we now know Schoenmakers didn't show, would have been better.
DEVLIN ISN'T GOOD DEFENSIVELY...have you even watched him play or are you just saying things, the guy turns over the puck 10 times a game and you couldn't trust the guy with the puck, add that he is horrible offensively...he has a bullet for a shot but he rarely uses it. Stop trying to act like they came out good if Shoe reported this trade would have looked better, but Murphy has been a huge surprise and his play SO FAR has won us the trade hands down and I bet Pete's GM and there fans aren't to happy with how this trade turned out...
DEVLIN ISN'T GOOD DEFENSIVELY...have you even watched him play or are you just saying things, the guy turns over the puck 10 times a game and you couldn't trust the guy with the puck, add that he is horrible offensively...he has a bullet for a shot but he rarely uses it. Stop trying to act like they came out good if Shoe reported this trade would have looked better, but Murphy has been a huge surprise and his play SO FAR has won us the trade hands down and I bet Pete's GM and there fans aren't to happy with how this trade turned out...
Devlin is a plus player on one of the worst teams in the league with 3 points in 8 games. I'm saying it's not as bad as many people think. It's worked out for both teams.
If I'm Spott, I make this deal in a heartbeat. Dal Colle is the real deal, he will be better than Puempel or Rieder. These players are all gone after this year and even with them Kitchener isn't going anywhere.
You're right, Spott might do that deal - but he'd be getting hosed!
If Spott were to deal these four guys, they'd have to be dealt individually.
Gibson, arguably the best goalie in the league should bring a package somewhere closer to the Jack Campbell return than the above. Maybe not as steep a return but maybe Dal Colle, three 2nds and two 3rds. He goes for no less.
Murphy (arguably the most dynamic d-man in the league) should bring the same type of return.
Rieder (42 goals last year), should bring maybe a younger import player and a 2nd and a 3rd.
Puempel (on pace for 50+ goals before injury) should bring a decent return as well.
IMO, with the right GM at the wheel, these four players should bring a return of 3 or 4 high end 95/96 players and about as many as dozen 2nd/3rd rounders.
You're right, Spott might do that deal - but he'd be getting hosed!
If Spott were to deal these four guys, they'd have to be dealt individually.
Gibson, arguably the best goalie in the league should bring a package somewhere closer to the Jack Campbell return than the above. Maybe not as steep a return but maybe Dal Colle, three 2nds and two 3rds. He goes for no less.
Murphy (arguably the most dynamic d-man in the league) should bring the same type of return.
Rieder (42 goals last year), should bring maybe a younger import player and a 2nd and a 3rd.
Puempel (on pace for 50+ goals before injury) should bring a decent return as well.
IMO, with the right GM at the wheel, these four players should bring a return of 3 or 4 high end 95/96 players and about as many as dozen 2nd/3rd rounders.
Devlin is a plus player on one of the worst teams in the league with 3 points in 8 games. I'm saying it's not as bad as many people think. It's worked out for both teams.
It really hasten tho we get a year younger defenseman that had more potential then Devlin along with getting Lorentz and they get Devlin who I have had the displeasure of watching the last year, I'm sure petes gm feels violated after that trade, I mean they bring in a new gm and his first trade is this....
It really hasten tho we get a year younger defenseman that had more potential then Devlin along with getting Lorentz and they get Devlin who I have had the displeasure of watching the last year, I'm sure petes gm feels violated after that trade, I mean they bring in a new gm and his first trade is this....
He improved his hockey club Right now, which was what he was trying to do. Whether or not we agree with that strategy (I know I dont) is a whole different argument.
Then, in your opinion, what would be fair return for those four if dealt to 4 different teams?
The return that was mentioned above doesn't cut it. IMO, many more picks have to be added.
For starters... all 4 will not be traded. Together or separately. The market is not there to satisfy the price. The number of high end players on bad teams right now is huge and the market will be over saturated. Not to mention there will be very few teams that will make a push for the players.
As for making the comparison between Gibson and Campbell is fair. Except all the Spits got were picks (Seiloff not withstanding). If a premier 16yo is included in the deal (ex: Dal Colle), that will significantly cut the number of picks in the package.
Same goes with Murphy... it's either a bunch of picks or a young player and a couple of picks.
Rieder has the issue of being an Import player. Stats not withstanding, they are very hard to move. Some of the offers for Khokhlachev last year were down right laughable.
Puempel, IIRC, only wanted to be traded to Kitchener at the beginning of the season. He may be happy finishing out his career there.
DEVLIN ISN'T GOOD DEFENSIVELY...have you even watched him play or are you just saying things, the guy turns over the puck 10 times a game and you couldn't trust the guy with the puck, add that he is horrible offensively...he has a bullet for a shot but he rarely uses it. Stop trying to act like they came out good if Shoe reported this trade would have looked better, but Murphy has been a huge surprise and his play SO FAR has won us the trade hands down and I bet Pete's GM and there fans aren't to happy with how this trade turned out...
oh don't worry we are pissed!!! simply pissed. And they were cutting up Reid for his trades. Obviously Pelino has his fingers in those trades as speculated already. We got hosed and we know it.
Murphy and Lorentz (or Puempel as that's who we got for him) for Devlin.. GREAT trade morons!
Libbs you're very intelligent that was a terrific post. Let's ignore for a moment that Kitchener wants to contend. If you want to move those players you can't possibly find enough buyers. Even if you wanted to move one of them to say a team like Owen Sound I guarantee you London or Plymouth would look elsewhere instead of paying the price of what Kitchener is trying to sell. Like always there's a pecking order for sellers and you start looking at non playoff teams eg. Ottawa and Peterborough, Erie. Then you look at teams that are barely going to sneak into the playoffs or finish just out of the playoffs eg. Soo, Sudbury, Saginaw. Buyers are more than likely going to fish around those teams before they even entertain what Kitchener has available. Between those 6 teams you have guys like Graovac, Ceci, Quine, Schoenmakers, Koekkoek(maybe), Mathers(maybe), Leivo, Campagna, Silk, Corrado, Trocheck, Ross, Miller, Cousins, Sproul etc.. who all may or may not be available depending on the price. This is why Kitchener can't be sellers.
For starters... all 4 will not be traded. Together or separately. The market is not there to satisfy the price. The number of high end players on bad teams right now is huge and the market will be over saturated. Not to mention there will be very few teams that will make a push for the players.
As for making the comparison between Gibson and Campbell is fair. Except all the Spits got were picks (Seiloff not withstanding). If a premier 16yo is included in the deal (ex: Dal Colle), that will significantly cut the number of picks in the package.
Same goes with Murphy... it's either a bunch of picks or a young player and a couple of picks.
Rieder has the issue of being an Import player. Stats not withstanding, they are very hard to move. Some of the offers for Khokhlachev last year were down right laughable.
Puempel, IIRC, only wanted to be traded to Kitchener at the beginning of the season. He may be happy finishing out his career there.
Fair enough. Consider me educated.
I don't believe Spott would go down the "sell" avenue this year anyway; for the reasons you mentioned above, the probability that Gibson and Murphy likely would have to waive no-trade clauses (Thomson refused a deal 2 years ago), and the fact Spott has been touting this as a special season.
In the past, he stood pat and complained that the prices were too high. If the prices aren't high at all, then maybe the Rangers are able to add the three pieces many think they need to make a run (a bonafide #2 d-man and two above average forwards) despite the lack of 2nd/3rd rounders in the cupboard.
oh don't worry we are pissed!!! simply pissed. And they were cutting up Reid for his trades. Obviously Pelino has his fingers in those trades as speculated already. We got hosed and we know it.
Murphy and Lorentz (or Puempel as that's who we got for him) for Devlin.. GREAT trade morons!
I know I feel bad for the Pete fans I feel like we robbed you I mean Pelino thinking? You guys aren't going for the playoffs this year and Murphy has more potential the Devlin plus he's a year younger and why do you need an overages? Lorentz will be back next season and Shoe wouldn't be if he reported....Ried could have got a lot more for puempel and if he demanded a trade to Kitchener and if the rangers didn't offer as much as he is worth you tell puemple to either play or sit at home for the season till he expands the teams he's willing to go to, a player and especially a juniour player shouldn't control where he goes, you guys got Violated on both the Pumple and the Watson deals, I mean most fans could of pulled off a better deal, when you trade Watson and Pumple that should have really signaled a rebuild but these trades are head shakers, and this latest deal by the new GM is just a head shaker.
