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Other Chicago Sports/General Sports Thread - Cubs Sign Jackson, Villanueva

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Old
12-10-2012, 12:03 PM
  #451
RayP
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Don't really like this for the Royals, especially when you see that they're currently strting Lorenzo Cain and Jeff Francoer in their OF, along with Alex Gordon.

Also not a huge fan of Shields personally, and isn't he like 29 or 30 already? Not only that, but he is only under contract for 2 more years. I still doubt they make the playoffs after the trade, and they hurt themselves quite a bit going forward IMO.

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12-10-2012, 12:09 PM
  #452
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Don't really like this for the Royals, especially when you see that they're currently strting Lorenzo Cain and Jeff Francoer in their OF, along with Alex Gordon.

Also not a huge fan of Shields personally, and isn't he like 29 or 30 already? Not only that, but he is only under contract for 2 more years. I still doubt they make the playoffs after the trade, and they hurt themselves quite a bit going forward IMO.
All good and correct points. Although I disagree with you on Shields, I think he is a great pitcher. However, do you honestly think the Royals would have made the playoffs during the next 6 seasons before Myers left? I don't, not even close actually. However, after this trade, I look at the Central and see them having two pretty good chances, this year and the next year. It doesn't mean they will but it's the freakin' Royals, it was time to get some damn pitching and field a somewhat complete ball club for the first time in a very long time.

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12-10-2012, 01:29 PM
  #453
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Don't really like this for the Royals, especially when you see that they're currently strting Lorenzo Cain and Jeff Francoer in their OF, along with Alex Gordon.

Also not a huge fan of Shields personally, and isn't he like 29 or 30 already? Not only that, but he is only under contract for 2 more years. I still doubt they make the playoffs after the trade, and they hurt themselves quite a bit going forward IMO.
What's up with the Lorenzo Cain hate?

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12-10-2012, 01:39 PM
  #454
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Without signing anyone else, Cubs payroll looks to be at around $90 mil next season. Definitely leaves room if they want to go out and sign another starter.

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12-10-2012, 01:44 PM
  #455
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We have different definitions of "Ace". I am quite familar with yours as others have it too. It includes 3-5 pitchers that qualify as aces. I don't subscribe to that.

If I am picking a winner on this deal today, it is cleary the Rays. But I think we need to see what happens with Davis and the Royals playoff chances this year before we say they lost. If Davis plays to his potential, Shields does the same as the last two years and the Royals make the playoffs, Royals made one hell of a deal, regardless of how good of a career Myers has. This is either going to go down as a robbery by the Rays or a good trade for both sides. The Rays did the right thing for them, great deal for them.

It can't be said enough though:
  • The Royals have not made the playoffs since 1985, by far the longest streak in the majors
  • They had a super prospect before, Carlos Beltran. They held onto him and let him play out his career until the last minute before free agency. They never made the playoffs because their pitching wasn't good enough, and when they traded him, they got back Mike Wood, Mark Teahen and John Buck back.
  • Free agents don't want to go to Kansas City, winning is the only thing that is going to change that.
  • The Royals most likely would not have ever made the playoffs during the next 6 years of Myers team controlled years.

The above points are undisputed facts that must be taken into account when evaluating this deal.
How is your last point "an undisputed fact"? They may not have made the playoffs in that time span, but unless you are the most clairvoyant person in the world (and judging buy your posts in this forum, you aren't), then you have no way of knowing what the the team will look like in four to six years.

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12-10-2012, 01:59 PM
  #456
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How is your last point "an undisputed fact"? They may not have made the playoffs in that time span, but unless you are the most clairvoyant person in the world (and judging buy your posts in this forum, you aren't), then you have no way of knowing what the the team will look like in four to six years.
Most likely means most likely. If you want to fixate on the most unlikely scenario, go ahead.

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12-10-2012, 02:08 PM
  #457
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What's up with the Lorenzo Cain hate?
His OBP was barely over .300 IIRC.

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12-10-2012, 02:44 PM
  #458
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His OBP was barely over .300 IIRC.
Yea, in a small sample size. His OBP in the minors was usually north of .350. I'd expect it to pick up in a full season.

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12-10-2012, 03:28 PM
  #459
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Grilli back to Pittsburgh, at least we tried.

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12-10-2012, 10:42 PM
  #460
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Apparently, we should be excited about Mirotic

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12-10-2012, 10:46 PM
  #461
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Just make sure you either re-sign him or trade him before he becomes an RFA and signs an offer sheet after only getting 2 years from him since he was overseas.

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12-10-2012, 11:06 PM
  #462
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Hopefully he's for real. Just read something calling him the best European prospect.

I assume that would change once Gobert is drafted.

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12-10-2012, 11:24 PM
  #463
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He has been compared to Dirk. That's a stretch, but he will be very good.

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12-11-2012, 09:23 AM
  #464
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Apparently the Cubs offered McCarthy more money but the deal was incentive laden. He took the more guaranteed money from Arizona. Guess he figures he can't stay healthy

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12-11-2012, 10:30 AM
  #465
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Apparently the Cubs offered McCarthy more money but the deal was incentive laden. He took the more guaranteed money from Arizona. Guess he figures he can't stay healthy
I don't like the fact we were cheap there. McCarthy on top of what we already have would have made for a strong rotation.

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12-11-2012, 10:34 AM
  #466
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I don't like the fact we were cheap there. McCarthy on top of what we already have would have made for a strong rotation.
Still several pitchers out there.

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12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
  #467
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Multiple publications have blasted the move, saying the Royals gave up too much. ESPN.com's Keith Law wrote that "the deal reeks of a GM feeling pressure to improve short-term performance to keep his job, which is a terrible situation for any executive both personally and for the way it can inhibit his ability to make rational decisions.''

"To me, that's insulting,'' Moore said, according to USA Today Sports. "That's very insulting. Very, very insulting. I don't get too bent up about criticism, and I want to take the high road here, but that's insulting my integrity."

"When you can acquire a pitcher like James Shields and Wade Davis, we have to do it, because that's what we've committed to our team -- we've committed to our organization," Moore said after the trade. "It's important that we start winning games."
Good for Moore, very happy he spoke up. He is absolutely right. I viewed him as a poor GM up until this trade but it really was a hell of a move to go for it and absolutely necessary. The people criticizing him are pretty daft too. Lose with Myers for 6 years or take a shot at winning the next two and hopefully put Kansas City on the map as a destination for free agents. Nobody wants to go there. It's a really bad situation and something drastic needed to be done. Moore did just that. K.C. has had the most God awful ****ing horrible pitching for decades. Yeah, he lost the trade on paper, but nobody else was making pitchers of that quality and health available. It's unfortunate that Garza wasn't healthy all year because then maybe the Cubs could have got in on this and acquired Myers, but you can't blame Moore for trying to get that team to win. They have a nice young core in the lineup and the field.

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12-11-2012, 10:48 AM
  #468
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Bummer.

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12-11-2012, 10:48 AM
  #469
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So, right now, the #1 pick in the next NBA draft is a 6 man race between Zeller, Noel, Muhammad, Poythress, Len and Gobert. I like Poythress and Len quite a bit. Zeller will be very good, but I don't think he provides #1 pick upside at the next level.

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12-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #470
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Apparently, we should be excited about Mirotic
Yep. Going to be a very, very good one.

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12-11-2012, 11:44 AM
  #471
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When he comes over, the lineup (I'm hoping) will look like Rose/George/Butler/Mirotić/Noah. That would be dirty.

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12-11-2012, 12:27 PM
  #472
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I don't like the fact we were cheap there. McCarthy on top of what we already have would have made for a strong rotation.
Also, it could be that McCarthy just wanted to pitch on a team closer to the playoffs

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12-11-2012, 12:54 PM
  #473
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Also, it could be that McCarthy just wanted to pitch on a team closer to the playoffs
Yeah, you're probably right, I try to not ever question Theo or Hoyer. We're spoiled rotten and I love it.

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12-11-2012, 12:57 PM
  #474
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Don't forget Mcleod, he's one of the best scouts there is. The Cubs are going to have another year where they pick in the top 5 next year as well. Have to cash in on these high draft picks under this CBA.

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12-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #475
coldsteelonice84
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Don't forget Mcleod, he's one of the best scouts there is. The Cubs are going to have another year where they pick in the top 5 next year as well. Have to cash in on these high draft picks under this CBA.
Right, nothing is ever going to get by those 3. I'm really excited about the draft coming up and starting to see some of the guys from last year play a full year in the minors.

I think they have to go Appel or Stanek with our first pick.

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