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Old
12-11-2012, 01:56 PM
  #826
sully1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
This is what I think works too.

The 2013 1st would work on its own, but if its deferred until 2014, the cost would be a 2nd in 2013.

What say you liferleafer?

I don't want to address the front end of the proposal, because I don't think to UFA's to be should be the "centerpiece", but lets leave that for a different conversation.
Derp.

Definitely forgot about that point. to be fair though...isnt Bozak an RFA?

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12-11-2012, 01:56 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Luongo has shown that he is actually better when he is facing a high volume of shots, its the low shooting games that he lets in the ****** goals.

I personally do not mind MacArthur...but he's very similar to Mason Raymond, and very small. Im not sure how well that would work playing on the Vancouver 2nd Line which is just as defensive as offensive...really dont know how well that would work out. Although he has had at least 20 goals the last two seasons, and his low assists could be indicative of Kulemin having an off year.

I would be ok with MacArthur as a return being the center piece, given his offensive upside that he has. Kesler and Booth are probably better line mates in terms of talent then Kulemin sand Grabo. Kes is one year removed from a Selke/42g season. Thats pretty good, and he got those numbers playing with Macy. Im not sure if Raymond is going to be better in this upcoming season after breaking his back in the cup run, but I think he makes a come back tbh.

So if Mac is the center piece, Toronto would definitely have to sweeten the pot. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure who is centering the third line. But I actually think its open right now that Sami Pahlson has left. For this spot, I'm pretty sure Bozak would slot in quite nicely.

So that puts us at Mac, Bozak.

a first round pick is a far gone conclusion that it will be in this deal. It can be 2013, but I personally will not lose any sleep if its 2014 instead. Really not that important in the grand scheme. Its looking more and more like it could we could lose another season here over ********, so i get that its a pretty valuable first. It could be first overall right.

Deferring it a year definitley takes away value from the pick. So there needs to be something else there. A 2nd this year maybe?

So MacArthur, Bozak, 2014 1st, 2013 2nd?

Maybe throw a prospect in there if thats not enough.
Would do that in a heartbeat. Would also add another prospect if need be.

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12-11-2012, 02:01 PM
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Luongo has shown that he is actually better when he is facing a high volume of shots, its the low shooting games that he lets in the ****** goals.

I personally do not mind MacArthur...but he's very similar to Mason Raymond, and very small. Im not sure how well that would work playing on the Vancouver 2nd Line which is just as defensive as offensive...really dont know how well that would work out. Although he has had at least 20 goals the last two seasons, and his low assists could be indicative of Kulemin having an off year.

I would be ok with MacArthur as a return being the center piece, given his offensive upside that he has. Kesler and Booth are probably better line mates in terms of talent then Kulemin sand Grabo. Kes is one year removed from a Selke/42g season. Thats pretty good, and he got those numbers playing with Macy. Im not sure if Raymond is going to be better in this upcoming season after breaking his back in the cup run, but I think he makes a come back tbh.

So if Mac is the center piece, Toronto would definitely have to sweeten the pot. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure who is centering the third line. But I actually think its open right now that Sami Pahlson has left. For this spot, I'm pretty sure Bozak would slot in quite nicely.

So that puts us at Mac, Bozak.

a first round pick is a far gone conclusion that it will be in this deal. It can be 2013, but I personally will not lose any sleep if its 2014 instead. Really not that important in the grand scheme. Its looking more and more like it could we could lose another season here over ********, so i get that its a pretty valuable first. It could be first overall right.

Deferring it a year definitley takes away value from the pick. So there needs to be something else there. A 2nd this year maybe?

So MacArthur, Bozak, 2014 1st, 2013 2nd?

Maybe throw a prospect in there if thats not enough.

I could live with that.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:01 PM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
So MacArthur, Bozak, 2014 1st, 2013 2nd?
Remove the 1st and that's doable.

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12-11-2012, 02:04 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Derp.

Definitely forgot about that point. to be fair though...isnt Bozak an RFA?
Nope.

and even if Kadri is a target, if he doesn't make the team he would no longer be waiver exempt to go down to the AHL, so its NHL or risk losing him on waivers.

A lot more risk for Vancouver here IMO, than Toronto, especially with the names bantied about.

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12-11-2012, 02:07 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Remove the 1st and that's doable.
Seriously? This is more than fair. With the crop of UFA's available next offseason and Luongo in goal...that 2014 pick should not bed a high one.

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12-11-2012, 02:08 PM
  #832
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Bozak
MacArthur
Ashton
2nd in 2013
1st in 2014

for

Luongo

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:09 PM
  #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Bozak
MacArthur
Ashton
2nd in 2013
1st in 2014

for

Luongo
Would do this as well.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:10 PM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Seriously? This is more than fair. With the crop of UFA's available next offseason and Luongo in goal...that 2014 pick should not bed a high one.
I wouldn't do the deal. With Luongo, that 2014 first rounder will be in the 18-24 range. A 2nd this year hardly interests me, and neither Bozak or MacArthur addresses any needs on our team. Pass.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #835
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't do the deal. With Luongo, that 2014 first rounder will be in the 18-24 range. A 2nd this year hardly interests me, and neither Bozak or MacArthur addresses any needs on our team. Pass.
I'm shocked.

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12-11-2012, 02:13 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Seriously? This is more than fair. With the crop of UFA's available next offseason and Luongo in goal...that 2014 pick should not bed a high one.
To me it's an overpayment regardless of where the 2014 pick lands.

It is pretty close to value though.

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12-11-2012, 02:14 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
To me it's an overpayment regardless of where the 2014 pick lands.

It is pretty close to value though.
You're probably one of the guys who wouldn't have moved Kadri and Schenn for Tavares too.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #838
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
To me it's an overpayment regardless of where the 2014 pick lands.

It is pretty close to value though.
Gotta disagree here. Luongo is an immediate upgrade, losing those pieces doesn't hurt...i mean at all. Unless we do another Kessel saga collapse, although we are much better now than then when you add Luongo.

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12-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Seriously? This is more than fair. With the crop of UFA's available next offseason and Luongo in goal...that 2014 pick should not bed a high one.
It's not very different from the Bozak, Kadri, 2nd/3rd proposal (except the addition of Mac). Doable for me, considering we would end up replacing Mac with JVR in the top 6.

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12-11-2012, 02:17 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Gotta disagree here. Luongo is an immediate upgrade, losing those pieces doesn't hurt...i mean at all. Unless we do another Kessel saga collapse, although we are much better now than then when you add Luongo.
I agree with all of that but I don't see the need to pay more than necessary.

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12-11-2012, 02:17 PM
  #841
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You're probably one of the guys who wouldn't have moved Kadri and Schenn for Tavares too.
What do your fantasies have to do with anything?

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:21 PM
  #842
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I agree with all of that but I don't see the need to pay more than necessary.
I've got to ask, what exactly do you think would be "necessary"?

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12-11-2012, 02:24 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I've got to ask, what exactly do you think would be "necessary"?
Bozak(or similar)
2nd (or similar)

I wouldn't be upset if another mid-level prospect or pick were thrown in.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't do the deal. With Luongo, that 2014 first rounder will be in the 18-24 range. A 2nd this year hardly interests me, and neither Bozak or MacArthur addresses any needs on our team. Pass.
My, that is a lot of faith in the man, especially after all the criticism he has been getting lately.

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12-11-2012, 02:27 PM
  #845
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How does the deal change in the possible (more and more likely by the day) scenario where the CBA is completed after the year is lost? If Luongo is traded in the offseason?

Some of the pieces being discussed are UFAs at season's end:

Bozak
Lupul
Connolly
MacArthur


This introduces the complication that they will either be gone to free agency or have recently re-signed with Toronto severely decreasing their likelihood to be traded, not to mention a likely reduction in cap space.

What then?

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:28 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Bozak(or similar)
2nd (or similar)

I wouldn't be upset if another mid-level prospect or pick were thrown in.
I can tell you, that won't be enough. Would you do that if you were Van? If that is all they get offered, we will be facing FLA with Luongo in net.

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12-11-2012, 02:29 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Shepard VI View Post
My, that is a lot of faith in the man, especially after all the criticism he has been getting lately.
Y2K believes Luongo to be a top 5 goalie in the league. Going off of that assumption, his prediction is not far off.

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12-11-2012, 02:32 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I can tell you, that won't be enough. Would you do that if you were Van? If that is all they get offered, we will be facing FLA with Luongo in net.
We'll know when it happens.

I don't know what Vancouver will do, I do know they are dealing from a position of weakness.

I don't know if Florida is interested or what they would offer.

** Also I'm making assumptions based on Burke's view of any Leafs value. If Kadri for example isn't thought of very highly maybe he includes him instead of the pick.


Last edited by ACC1224: 12-11-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old
12-11-2012, 02:35 PM
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Bozak(or similar)
2nd (or similar)

I wouldn't be upset if another mid-level prospect or pick were thrown in.
That wouldn't be enough to get you Ondej Pavelec, let alone Roberto Luongo.

Maybe if you're interested in Nikolai Khabibulin that trade offer would work?

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12-11-2012, 02:39 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post


If those are the players that Mike Gillis is demanding in a trade, then there will be no deal between Toronto and Vancouver, and the possible destination pool for Roberto dwindles even further.

Oddly enough, I'm most looking forward to the post trade reaction thread that will appear on the Vancouver board once Roberto is traded for a less than stellar return.
I wouldn't mind for that to happen, we are currently contending for a cup, there is little to no interest to trade Luongo.

Luongo's value will dropped as time goes along, but by then we will be rebuilding so he can be a veteran presence in our team.

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