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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:56 PM
  #626
VaxjoDevil
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Well, this lockout has gotten me back to soccer and Liverpool, the first team I ever was a fan of. And I would not hesitate to rather spend money to hop over to England to watch a game, instead of going to the 10-15 Devils games I go to. Only thing that sucks is that games a are only once a week.

And here is an interesting read on Bill Shankly, regarding fan relations. This is the team I grew up with, so I just can't take the cynical thought of a team not caring about the fans.

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"Right from the start as a manager I tried to show that the fans are the people that matter. You've got to know how to treat them and have them on your side". This was particularly true at Liverpool and Shankly said he was "made for Liverpool where the people that matter most are the ones who come through the turnstiles". He added that "a manager has got to identify himself with the people because football is their whole life". In return, he said, the support of the Liverpool fans for their team had been "incredible".

In April 1973, when Shankly and the team were showing off the League Championship trophy to the fans on the Kop, he saw a policeman fling aside a Liverpool scarf which had been thrown in Shankly's direction. Shankly retrieved the scarf and wore it. He said to the policeman: "Don't you do that. That's precious". Shankly saw the offer of the scarf as a mark of respect which deserved his respect in return.

Shankly emphasised the importance of communication with the supporters. At Carlisle he used to speak to them over the public address system before matches. Rather than just putting a few lines in the match programme, he preferred to speak and explain his team changes and his views about the previous match. At Workington, he would answer supporters' letters in person, using an old typewriter. But he said he preferred to phone business people as he would put as little as possible in writing when dealing with them. He would readily obtain match tickets for fans whom he considered to be deserving cases and wrote in his autobiography that he "would give people anything within reason".

Shankly formed a special bond with the Liverpool supporters and, at the end of the 1961–62 season when Liverpool won the Second Division championship, he told the Liverpool Echo: "In all sincerity, I can say that they are the greatest crowd of supporters in the game".[149] In Tommy Smith's view, Shankly was completely in tune with the city of Liverpool; he loved the supporters and they loved him, mainly "because they knew he understood them"

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12-11-2012, 12:08 AM
  #627
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Stupid parise, always comes back to that guy.

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12-11-2012, 12:09 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
Well I'm not going to turn my back on the Devils completely. I know that once there are games to watch, I'll be watching again. It's just going to be difficult to put the business aspect of everything aside because both the NHL and PA have made it all about that. As I said, way too much of this process has been in the public eye and a lot of disappointing comments have come from the PA side.

I'm just taking the money thing real personal. It really bothers me to have to fork over my money when all they care about doing these days is fighting over it. It's frustrating. And its messed up because when you watch your team, you want them to do well and you want to pull for them. I mean even if we all already knew that this is mostly a job to these guys, it's a lot easier to put that side when they're not saying and doing stupid **** all over the internet.

This has just been really bad on both the PA and NHL's part. Very disappointing time to be a fan right now.
I've been a huge fan of your posts recently, you've done a great job of putting this lockout into words and I am as frustrated as you about this ordeal. I think the best way to describe it is this, its going to be very hard to get as emotionally invested in Devils games after this lockout. Maybe the feeling will pass as time goes on, maybe it'll take until October 2013, but for me, I'm going to be watching the games sort of nonchalantly as opposed to before. The feeling that these are the same players that were crying over wanting more money, on top of their millions they already fork in year after year, its going to take a long time to wear off and that is extremely unfortunate

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12-11-2012, 12:53 AM
  #629
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I've been a huge fan of your posts recently, you've done a great job of putting this lockout into words and I am as frustrated as you about this ordeal. I think the best way to describe it is this, its going to be very hard to get as emotionally invested in Devils games after this lockout. Maybe the feeling will pass as time goes on, maybe it'll take until October 2013, but for me, I'm going to be watching the games sort of nonchalantly as opposed to before. The feeling that these are the same players that were crying over wanting more money, on top of their millions they already fork in year after year, its going to take a long time to wear off and that is extremely unfortunate
Thank you, I appreciate that. And I think you hit the nail on the head with the watching nonchalantly comment. That's easily the most disappointing thing about all of this. It's hard to have your heart into something when it's been made out to be nothing more than a cash grab.

Time should help the bitterness wear off but as someone who has sat through the prior two lockouts, I feel much differently about this one. Both sides have done a great job of alienating themselves imho. The whole thing has been spoiled for me.

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12-11-2012, 01:18 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Prior to free agency, the former GM of the North Stars got on the radio and said he just had dinner with Wild management and said in so many words that they were ready to back up the money trucks to his front yard.

I think a quote was "they'll give him so much money, he'll be able to own the team"
Think he also implied that it'd be a lifetime contract, too

Just a lot of leaks and slips before July 1st.

Which is all a fancy way of circumventing the tampering rules, I guess.
Don't care as much anymore, but again, if we can steal some draft picks out of it... all the better.
Good synopsis. And the timing made it even more suspicious (not that it had to) in that it came right when things were starting to seem promising Parise may resign and also in that "danger window" for a potential suitor when a team might fear they might not get the chance to get to 07/01.

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So they just told Nanne to tell JP, and that's how Parise knew what the offer was. Very shady, but it's hard to prove tampering occurred.
The NHL doesn't have to prove tampering occurred, it's not a court of law, they just have to believe evidence exists that tampering likely occurred. Private league. Same as the Kovy fine/penalty. Completely arbitrary when/if they decide to punish you (or not).

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Well, this lockout has gotten me back to soccer and Liverpool, the first team I ever was a fan of.
I've used all the free time to go to the gym at night, and to learn some new songs. It's really remarkable how much time being a serious fan consumes. That's another thing this situation has taught me. Do I really want to go back to watching about 77 games per year? At 2h 15m per game, that's 173.25 hours or 7.21 days of my life per NHL season. It's actually more if you factor in sleep.

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12-11-2012, 06:06 AM
  #631
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The teams are going to paint "Thank You Fans" on the ice just like last time.

I'd prefer, "We are sorry, fans" - on one side of the ice from the NHL and the other from the NHLPA

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12-11-2012, 06:43 AM
  #632
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I am bitter at the league, but I know it isn't the Devils who are voting to keep the lockout going. Not unless Vanderbeek is trying to bankrupt himself. That is why I will hold no grudge against the Devils. The league as a whole yes, certain teams and their owners yes, but not the Devils. They're being held hostage by this almost as much as we are.

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12-11-2012, 07:59 AM
  #633
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The teams are going to paint "Thank You Fans" on the ice just like last time.

I'd prefer, "We are sorry, fans" - on one side of the ice from the NHL and the other from the NHLPA
I want "never again fans". How sorry could they be if the lockout is STILL going on? If they were so sorry we would've had an 82 game season.

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12-11-2012, 08:04 AM
  #634
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I want "never again fans". How sorry could they be if the lockout is STILL going on? If they were so sorry we would've had an 82 game season.
Them painting never again would be just as hollow as Parise's 'I'm loyal' comment.

This does go beyond painting words in the ice, but I don't know what the league can realistically throw up as a peace offering other than Bettman's head on a platter and some free Center Ice/NHL Network. It's more or less up to each individual team to make it right with the fans on a city-city basis. Don needs to go away too but I suspect this is his last CBA regardless.

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12-11-2012, 08:50 AM
  #635
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This is the fourth work stoppage I've lived through as a fan (including the brief player strike in '92). I've found they've had a cumulative effect on me. The sting of the '94-95 lockout was lessened by the fact NJ wins the Cup that year, but these last two are just ridiculous. I mean come on! Losing a complete season, then 8 years later on the fast track to losing another?? The NHL is becoming a complete joke.

And just my luck, the year I finally pop on season tickets, and there's no games. When the league does finally come back at some point, I'll still watch, but it's going to take a long time before I'm all the way "back" as a fan. We just came off a really fun, and unexpected, Cup run (which seems like forever ago already), and all momentum from that is gone. And there's no way I'm renewing my season tickets next year (or whenever it comes back). I'll need a couple years to reconsider that decision.

But all in all, this just sucks.

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12-11-2012, 09:17 AM
  #636
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I don't I really have the eloquence required to really say how I feel about the whole thing.

I think it's a shame that some hard working people in lots of organizations have been caught up in the middle of this fight, between the rich and poor owners and the rich and poor players. I don't think much about this owners v. players. I think it really is some owners and some players fighting among themselves, and there just are tons of innocent by standers.

That being said. I'm very apathetic to the whole thing. Will I watch the games and follow the Devils? Almost definitely. Will I spend money? Probably not.

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12-11-2012, 10:55 AM
  #637
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Will I spend money? Probably not.
good for you, man. i hope you mean that. its the only way both sides are going to wake up and realize that they cant treat us like **** every 8 years

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12-11-2012, 11:23 AM
  #638
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I am bitter at the league, but I know it isn't the Devils who are voting to keep the lockout going. Not unless Vanderbeek is trying to bankrupt himself. That is why I will hold no grudge against the Devils. The league as a whole yes, certain teams and their owners yes, but not the Devils. They're being held hostage by this almost as much as we are.
Exactly how I feel. How can I punish a team that I love and know without-a-doubt that they want this thing over as much as I do?

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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
I don't I really have the eloquence required to really say how I feel about the whole thing.

I think it's a shame that some hard working people in lots of organizations have been caught up in the middle of this fight, between the rich and poor owners and the rich and poor players. I don't think much about this owners v. players. I think it really is some owners and some players fighting among themselves, and there just are tons of innocent by standers.

That being said. I'm very apathetic to the whole thing. Will I watch the games and follow the Devils? Almost definitely. Will I spend money? Probably not.
So you'll be dropping your season tickets? That's certainly the best way to not spend money on the team.

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Originally Posted by Luke3026 View Post
This is the fourth work stoppage I've lived through as a fan (including the brief player strike in '92). I've found they've had a cumulative effect on me. The sting of the '94-95 lockout was lessened by the fact NJ wins the Cup that year, but these last two are just ridiculous. I mean come on! Losing a complete season, then 8 years later on the fast track to losing another?? The NHL is becoming a complete joke.

And just my luck, the year I finally pop on season tickets, and there's no games. When the league does finally come back at some point, I'll still watch, but it's going to take a long time before I'm all the way "back" as a fan. We just came off a really fun, and unexpected, Cup run (which seems like forever ago already), and all momentum from that is gone. And there's no way I'm renewing my season tickets next year (or whenever it comes back). I'll need a couple years to reconsider that decision.

But all in all, this just sucks.
And in my eyes this is the real shame of the whole thing for the Devils. A franchise that is already struggling financially and wants the game back just as much as it's fans do, especially coming off of such a high from last season's run.

To think that the "rich guys club" of owners like Jacobs is perpetuating this thing and that it's really only going to hurt the smaller fan base teams like the Devils is just sickening. I mean, the Bruins may see some fan drop off but they're so huge that they'll still be turning profits and will have no reason to want to avoid a lockout next time around. Our protests of not spending money, going to games, or watching on TV just means an already struggling team continues to struggle more while the rich teams carry on.

That's why I've been pushing for fans to focus on punishing the League as whole with fans of the rich teams doing the most protesting. That would actually have an impact that could bring about change. When JVB (or whoever owns the Devils in a few years since Jeff is already struggling before this protest) stands up at the BOG meeting and says "this can't happen again because it hurt the Devils" you'll just have someone like Jacobs stand up and go "Yeah that's nice and all, but you already struggle in a large market so why don't you let the big boys handle their business".

The point is, Devils fans protesting against our own team will have little impact on the actions of the League, it'll just hurt the already hurting Devils and have repercussions like inability to afford a competitive team, bankruptcy, or even making future owners/investors less interested in keeping a struggling team here. It won't change the League's future decision, just our own team's future. And it's a shame that the rich owners of other teams are pushing many of our fans away. It's just sad.


Last edited by Colin226: 12-11-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
  #639
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This is the fourth work stoppage I've lived through as a fan (including the brief player strike in '92). I've found they've had a cumulative effect on me. The sting of the '94-95 lockout was lessened by the fact NJ wins the Cup that year, but these last two are just ridiculous. I mean come on! Losing a complete season, then 8 years later on the fast track to losing another?? The NHL is becoming a complete joke.

And just my luck, the year I finally pop on season tickets, and there's no games. When the league does finally come back at some point, I'll still watch, but it's going to take a long time before I'm all the way "back" as a fan. We just came off a really fun, and unexpected, Cup run (which seems like forever ago already), and all momentum from that is gone. And there's no way I'm renewing my season tickets next year (or whenever it comes back). I'll need a couple years to reconsider that decision.

But all in all, this just sucks.
In bold. Exactly. Perfectly sums it up. It's just too much at this point.

It's embarrassing to be a hockey fan, simple as that. I know hockey is more than the NHL, but the league is the highest level of the sport and what most people associate with hockey. And they have done nothing but let down their customers, sponsors, and employees.

No matter how you view this labor dispute or who you side with, the only certain thing for sure is that we deserve much better than what we are getting from this league. Pathetic is the only term I can come up with to describe how this league operates in terms of fan / customer relations and how they conduct business.

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12-11-2012, 12:35 PM
  #640
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I am bitter at the league, but I know it isn't the Devils who are voting to keep the lockout going. Not unless Vanderbeek is trying to bankrupt himself. That is why I will hold no grudge against the Devils. The league as a whole yes, certain teams and their owners yes, but not the Devils. They're being held hostage by this almost as much as we are.
The irony of the last part of your statement is our rival teams are also probably among the biggest moderates, or at least know better than not to push the league down an elevator shaft.

But yeah, this lockout couldn't have come at a worse time for the Devils, especially with all the new sth's the last couple years. Then again, '94 was even more horrendously timed with there finally starting to be a buzz about the Devils for the first time and all the moving talk on the horizon.

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12-11-2012, 01:11 PM
  #641
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I'm not as sure as others that the Devils aren't hardliners.

The better the deal the NHL can get itself the more valuable the franchise NJ Devils is. The easier it is to project future positive revenues. The easier it is to get minority partners and/or roll over existing loans.

So the better the CBA, the more likely VBK is to keep control of the team, from his perspective. As long as the season isn't cancelled, this lockout is probably a win for VBK.

I think we're already at the point, getting a long term deal with a 50/50 split, that the Devils probably want this settled, but it wouldn't shock me if the Devils want every ounce of benefit they can get squeezed out of these CBA negotiations.

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12-11-2012, 01:45 PM
  #642
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This is my third lockout, and fourth stoppage as a fan too. I just wish they'd keep the media away, and shut the **** up until they get a deal done.

This lockout pisses all over the 04/05 one in terms of embarrassment, and being even more pathetic. I think they've already met more times during this one, than they did in 04/05 before agreeing to the salary cap. That's the most pathetic part.

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12-11-2012, 01:48 PM
  #643
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screw it - I'm going back to NASCAR and PGA Golf. They never strike or have lockouts.

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12-11-2012, 01:51 PM
  #644
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screw it - I'm going back to NASCAR and PGA Golf. They never strike or have lockouts.
LOL they don't! I gave the recommendation to watch NASCAR last week if people didn't wanna deal with work stoppages. Too bad it's the offseason!

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12-11-2012, 02:14 PM
  #645
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Exactly how I feel. How can I punish a team that I love and know without-a-doubt that they want this thing over as much as I do?
How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Devils players = Part of the Union holding out for more $$$

Devils owners = Part of the League trying to get $$ more rational

They Devils are the same as anyone else.

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screw it - I'm going back to NASCAR and PGA Golf. They never strike or have lockouts.
PGA golf is awesome, but there's not much of that until January. FIS skiing rules too though, downhill is one of the most exciting sports to watch.

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12-11-2012, 02:18 PM
  #646
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I'd take curling at this point.

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12-11-2012, 02:20 PM
  #647
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I'd take curling at this point.
I can watch curling.

I went on a ski trip to Lake Louise once during this big Canadian female tournament and my friends and I watched it every night (while drinking). Partly because it was absolutely hysterical, and partly because it actually is somewhat interesting. It even motivated us to give it a try, we went to some curling place just outside of Calgary and (drunkenly) curled. Good times!

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12-11-2012, 02:22 PM
  #648
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Australian Rules football is a very simple, exciting, and fast paced game. It's pretty much a more exciting, less strategic game of American football. I would get into it if it was televised and not played at insane hours, given the time zones.

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12-11-2012, 02:25 PM
  #649
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How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Devils players = Part of the Union holding out for more $$$

Devils owners = Part of the League trying to get $$ more rational

They Devils are the same as anyone else.
They're not the same as anyone else. The players that have a huge issue with the owners have all been vocal without repercussions. Haven't heard anything from the Devils players, aside from Barch who hasn't been christened yet and an occasional mundane quote from Hedberg about what was going on in the first meetings.

Haven't heard a single quote from Vanderbeek or Lou either.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they just want to get back to normal.

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12-11-2012, 02:42 PM
  #650
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I can watch curling.

I went on a ski trip to Lake Louise once during this big Canadian female tournament and my friends and I watched it every night (while drinking). Partly because it was absolutely hysterical, and partly because it actually is somewhat interesting. It even motivated us to give it a try, we went to some curling place just outside of Calgary and (drunkenly) curled. Good times!
If I were to watch, I'd watch female curling for sure.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...curling/page/1

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