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Bluth Company Trade/Lineup Thread PT 3: Offseason Edition

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:56 PM
  #876
EvoLu7ioN
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Originally Posted by dunner View Post
With that logic used

Calgary - Edmonton deal = accepted

I've also scene Siemens at 88ovr after a few years.
Yeah TBH I'd be perfectly fine seeing a Yakupov - Sven swap, as long as Calgary was offering up a pick or something for getting the better player.

Perhaps we should also institute a rule a team can only make a trade including a franchise player or prospect once every 2 year.

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12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by matt1396 View Post
I don't see how my Malkin should have been vetoed. How is the return undesirable? I got Eriksson who I play better with, and Roy is better than Sutter.
Don't forget the 1st round pick

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12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by gunnerdom View Post
I think we're going a bit overboard with this. I mean look at the Habs a few seasons back. They literally changed half the team in the off-season. I'm okay with having like 2 or 3 players a team that can't be moved but the rest should be available for trades. Or maybe 2 regular players and 1 prospect should be on the no-touch list. Make a list, the rest tradeable. It would take the guess work out of this because this is getting too complicated for nothing.
this

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12-11-2012, 01:02 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
Yeah TBH I'd be perfectly fine seeing a Yakupov - Sven swap, as long as Calgary was offering up a pick or something for getting the better player.

Perhaps we should also institute a rule a team can only make a trade including a franchise player or prospect once every 2 year.
It was

Sven
Hudler
2nd - An early 2nd (hopefully)

For

Yakupov
1st - Late pick (hopefully)

Hell I'm just as excited to get a guy with 88 speed who can shoot the puck on my team right now. Ill take the slight drop in prospect value a few years from now. Even though Sven is further along in development which only adds to the value immediately.

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12-11-2012, 01:04 PM
  #880
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Yes offline - I have no idea on any online progression.
How many sims have you run online to know that Reilly won't break 80 by then? Because offline i've seen him have a slow progression and a fast progression.
With a few notable exceptions, online progression is scripted to age and potential. It is quite predictable. You can check ever GM Connected league in yr. 2, for instance, and you'll find only a 1-2 point variation among a few players, and generally the ones who get the extra "boost" regress or stagnate the following year.

Basically, Reilly will pick up 3-4 points or so OV each year. That doesn't mean he won't play above that OV, but if you're talking simply about rating, you wont' see him get to 80 until at least 6 full seasons into the league.

Basically, offline progression is completely irrelevant to online progress. Producton matters offline; it it does not matter online (notice, there are no AHL stats in GM Connected--so it can't take the production of AHL players into account when doing progression).

Again, I'm not sure this is true for "fictional" prospects, since you can't really compare them across leagues. I'm only stating what I and others have seen on "real" 4.5 / 4.0 prospects.

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12-11-2012, 01:13 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
With a few notable exceptions, online progression is scripted to age and potential. It is quite predictable. You can check ever GM Connected league in yr. 2, for instance, and you'll find only a 1-2 point variation among a few players, and generally the ones who get the extra "boost" regress or stagnate the following year.

Basically, Reilly will pick up 3-4 points or so OV each year. That doesn't mean he won't play above that OV, but if you're talking simply about rating, you wont' see him get to 80 until at least 6 full seasons into the league.

Basically, offline progression is completely irrelevant to online progress. Producton matters offline; it it does not matter online (notice, there are no AHL stats in GM Connected--so it can't take the production of AHL players into account when doing progression).

Again, I'm not sure this is true for "fictional" prospects, since you can't really compare them across leagues. I'm only stating what I and others have seen on "real" 4.5 / 4.0 prospects.
Based on several sims I've run with the same early rosters this league has, if properly developed he gets up there a lot faster than 6 years, and a lot higher than 80... He's very similar to Murray in my experience.

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12-11-2012, 01:13 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
With a few notable exceptions, online progression is scripted to age and potential. It is quite predictable. You can check ever GM Connected league in yr. 2, for instance, and you'll find only a 1-2 point variation among a few players, and generally the ones who get the extra "boost" regress or stagnate the following year.

Basically, Reilly will pick up 3-4 points or so OV each year. That doesn't mean he won't play above that OV, but if you're talking simply about rating, you wont' see him get to 80 until at least 6 full seasons into the league.

Basically, offline progression is completely irrelevant to online progress. Producton matters offline; it it does not matter online (notice, there are no AHL stats in GM Connected--so it can't take the production of AHL players into account when doing progression).

Again, I'm not sure this is true for "fictional" prospects, since you can't really compare them across leagues. I'm only stating what I and others have seen on "real" 4.5 / 4.0 prospects.
Have you made it past season 3 in these leagues?

for example gm connected I traded for Eric Wellwood because I noticed offline he progressed well (sorry Garry) sure enough 8 point jump last year I was going to trade for Bowman on Carolina and sure enough big jump. Justin Falk, Spurgeon, Palmieiri almost identical to their offline progression.

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12-11-2012, 01:16 PM
  #883
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Have you made it past season 3 in these leagues?

for example gm connected I traded for Eric Wellwood because I noticed offline he progressed well (sorry Garry) sure enough 8 point jump last year I was going to trade for Bowman on Carolina and sure enough big jump. Justin Falk, Spurgeon, Palmieiri almost identical to their offline progression.
I have gone to season 5-6 (the progression after season 5), but a few other guys from HF Elite have gone much further, through at least season 8 (DET, don't trade Pulkinnen ). We've compared notes along the way about when, why, and how prospects progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
Based on several sims I've run with the same early rosters this league has, if properly developed he gets up there a lot faster than 6 years, and a lot higher than 80... He's very similar to Murray in my experience.
Online?

I agree he tracks somewhat near Murray (a year or so behind), but I've not seen either one of them hit anything near 80 in the first few seasons...

Some guys jump in both, to be sure. And some guys jump online who don't offline (Summers comes to mind). Many guys jump offline who don't online (Gormley comes to mind).

There is variation in how NHLers grow, and a great deal of variation among AHL guys (e.g., Rob Bordson is a defensive machine?). But among the CHL prospects, the results seem remarkably predictable.

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12-11-2012, 01:17 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by EvoLu7ioN View Post
Based on several sims I've run with the same early rosters this league has, if properly developed he gets up there a lot faster than 6 years, and a lot higher than 80... He's very similar to Murray in my experience.
Oh yeah? Cause we're 3 seasons in and my "nhl ready" Murray is only a 66 and is hardly nhl ready.

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12-11-2012, 01:17 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by dunner View Post
Have you made it past season 3 in these leagues?

for example gm connected I traded for Eric Wellwood because I noticed offline he progressed well (sorry Garry) sure enough 8 point jump last year I was going to trade for Bowman on Carolina and sure enough big jump. Justin Falk, Spurgeon, Palmieiri almost identical to their offline progression.
Oooo, you swindler! Guess I can strike you off the list of people I will trade Giroux to!

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12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
  #886
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Oooo, you swindler! Guess I can strike you off the list of people I will trade Giroux to!
Sorry man, Gm did his homework.

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12-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #887
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Sorry man, Gm did his homework.
Good job.

Unfortunately I'm all out of gold stars.

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12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I have gone to season 5-6 (the progression after season 5), but a few other guys from HF Elite have gone much further, through at least season 8 (DET, don't trade Pulkinnen ). We've compared notes along the way about when, why, and how prospects progress.



Online?

I agree he tracks somewhat near Murray (a year or so behind), but I've not seen either one of them hit anything near 80 in the first few seasons...

Some guys jump in both, to be sure. And some guys jump online who don't offline (Summers comes to mind). Many guys jump offline who don't online (Gormley comes to mind).

There is variation in how NHLers grow, and a great deal of variation among AHL guys (e.g., Rob Bordson is a defensive machine?). But among the CHL prospects, the results seem remarkably predictable.
It's not just what season but how many times has it be done. I've done probably 3-4 offseason sims to year 5 of the league to see how young guys progress and all them are different but a guy like Wellwood was almost bang on. As for Rielly in like 3 of them he turned into an 89 really fast but in the 4th he stayed below 80.

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12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary83 View Post
Good job.

Unfortunately I'm all out of gold stars.
this a prospect pun?

if so, i see what you did there

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12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
Oh yeah? Cause we're 3 seasons in and my "nhl ready" Murray is only a 66 and is hardly nhl ready.
TBH I don't think playing him in the NHL so soon has been great for his progression. Not 100% sure how that works tho, so maybe I'm wrong.

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12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
  #891
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Good job.

Unfortunately I'm all out of gold stars.
Don't worry man I keep a good supply here just in case I need a little uplift.

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12-11-2012, 01:26 PM
  #892
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[QUOTE=Jack de la Hoya;56453407]I have gone to season 5-6 (the progression after season 5), but a few other guys from HF Elite have gone much further, through at least season 8 (DET, don't trade Pulkinnen ). We've compared notes along the way about when, why, and how prospects progress.


yeah i know not to trade Pulkinnen, Jurco and Frk lol, apparently they should become solid

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12-11-2012, 01:26 PM
  #893
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Don't worry man I keep a good supply here just in case I need a little uplift.
Too bad you can't trade them.

VETO'D *****

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12-11-2012, 01:27 PM
  #894
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TBH I don't think playing him in the NHL so soon has been great for his progression. Not 100% sure how that works tho, so maybe I'm wrong.
benched Nyquist all year last year or played 4th line minutes...went from 78 to 84.

There is no way to know what they progress too!

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12-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #895
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Too bad you can't trade them.

VETO'D *****
Ouch!

That's alright Wellwood at 83-84 ovr after next year will be my solid 2-3rd line left wing for a long time!

Wellwood for Giroux?

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12-11-2012, 01:30 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by dunner View Post
It's not just what season but how many times has it be done. I've done probably 3-4 offseason sims to year 5 of the league to see how young guys progress and all them are different but a guy like Wellwood was almost bang on. As for Rielly in like 3 of them he turned into an 89 really fast but in the 4th he stayed below 80.
Online =/= offline.

I'm really not sure how else to say it.

You're right, of course, that ideally there would be a greater sample size to draw from, but it takes a really, really long time to sim through GM connected seasons. I'd say, through year 5, I've had access to probably four samplings, and there is no significant variance on the progression of the notable prospects.

Look, I'm new, so I don't expect you guys to take me at my word. But if you ask the few guys I have been / are in other leagues with (JeffBokan), they would probably tell you that I've got some credibility there.

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benched Nyquist all year last year or played 4th line minutes...went from 78 to 84.

There is no way to know what they progress too!
You could have sat him the entire year, or played him on defense, and it wouldn't have made one bit of difference...Look for 4.5s to make their biggest progressions around ages 24-25. You could sit him again this year, and he'd still jump to 86-87.

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12-11-2012, 01:33 PM
  #897
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TBH I don't think playing him in the NHL so soon has been great for his progression. Not 100% sure how that works tho, so maybe I'm wrong.
**** it, him and shinkaruk are my franchise prospects, they're going to play and they're going to like it. Shinkaruk potted 2 goals since I've given him top 6 minutes.. He's always buzzin all over the ice. I just wanna see my other top 10 picks develop. Aka Barkov and Morrisey. Also hoping erne develops well, he's a beast in real life and there was talk of him making the wjc camp as an underager but it didn't happen.

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12-11-2012, 01:35 PM
  #898
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**** it, him and shinkaruk are my franchise prospects, they're going to play and they're going to like it. Shinkaruk potted 2 goals since I've given him top 6 minutes.. He's always buzzin all over the ice. I just wanna see my other top 10 picks develop. Aka Barkov and Morrisey. Also hoping erne develops well, he's a beast in real life and there was talk of him making the wjc camp as an underager but it didn't happen.
A lot of those guys play well above their OV ratings. Their defensive awareness and other less visible stats are what keep their OV low.

It makes them hard to simulate games with, though.

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12-11-2012, 01:36 PM
  #899
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Fuss

I gotta be honest and remember this is just like, my opinion man..

I think some of the new rules you put in place are great.
- 2 Trades per season (no deadline specific deal)
- Taking away the injury trade
- Implementing the backup goaltender rule
- All the offseason rules/structure
- and more

These rules really make for a more competitive strategic league
However, I think putting even more limitations on trading by adding these franchise player rules are a little much.. I think the league was operating fine without it, aside form a few trades.. I think everyones been essentially fair. If a trade happens that is outrageous then yeah they could be denied..

I personally think the franchise players creates MORE of a problem then solves one. I mean look at the ****storm thats being caused from it now.. there wasn't this much backlash over trades before. I dunno man, I love this league, and I feel like this rule is going to tear it apart. I feel like some people will leave the league because of it.

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12-11-2012, 01:38 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
A lot of those guys play well above their OV ratings. Their defensive awareness and other less visible stats are what keep their OV low.

It makes them hard to simulate games with, though.
Very lol. Murrays defensive awareness is 78 overall. I'm just waiting for one nice off season jump from Murray or shinkaruk idc who does it but one of them needs to jump already lol

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