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Rochester Americans / Minors Thread '12-'13 Ed.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
No, what's over the top is yourself and Beechsack's reaction. All I did was mention how I was surprised that a team down 6 forwards didn't give him a look.

You both turned it into this. So don't try to play it off otherwise.
And I've said a couple times that you don't really know if they did.

For all you know they considered him and chose not to take him on, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that possibility.

I'm all for criticizing the management for a decision, assuming that you know for certain what that decision actually was.

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12-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
And I've said a couple times that you don't really know if they did.

For all you know they considered him and chose not to take him on, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that possibility.

I'm all for criticizing the management for a decision, assuming that you know for certain what that decision actually was.
Well that's what message boards are for. And I doubt that was the case, since, if they were looking at bringing in some help they would have by now. And Kevin O talked to Rolston yesterday basically saying they had no interest.

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12-11-2012, 12:29 PM
  #478
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Nov 30th : Marlies (L)
Dec 1st : @Marlies (L)
Dec 7th : Phantoms (W)
Dec 8th : @Marlies (L)
Dec 11th : Heat

Even if the Amerks have their full complement of players for this stretch, nobody injured, they still probably lose those 3 games to the Marlies. Frankly, I think it's absurd to think that if the picked up a couple guys on PTOs for this stretch of games that the results would be any different. They're getting Tarnasky, Schofield, and Hodgson back tonight, and presumably that would have bumped some the PTO guys off the roster.

So, in effect, you're pissed at the organization for not signing marginal talent to fill in for 4 games until other guys get back to compete against AHL teams that have way more talent than normal because of the lockout.

Seems legit.

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12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Nov 30th : Marlies (L)

Even if the Amerks have their full complement of players for this stretch, nobody injured, they still probably lose those 3 games to the Marlies. Frankly, I think it's absurd to think that if the picked up a couple guys on PTOs for this stretch of games that the results would be any different. They're getting Tarnasky, Schofield, and Hodgson back tonight, and presumably that would have bumped some the PTO guys off the roster.
That's not AT ALL what I've said. You can twist the argument to suit your needs all you want, doesn't make it fact. I wanted the Sabres to bring in some forward help when they had SIX forwards injured. Too much to ask? Apparently so. And Hodgson is not coming back tonight and it doesn't sound like Tarnasky or Schofield will either. Possibly Girgensons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
So, in effect, you're pissed at the organization for not signing marginal talent to fill in for 4 games until other guys get back to compete against AHL teams that have way more talent than normal because of the lockout.

Seems legit.
Yes, I'm pissed that the organization would go into Toronto with only 10 forwards. That is not how well run organizations operate. I've watched and followed enough AHL hockey over the years to see how PTO's and injury replacements work. Guys are ROUTINELY brought in just for weekend games.

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12-11-2012, 12:54 PM
  #480
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Do you honestly believe that with 6 starting forwards out that the Amerks could find 6 replacements at the ECHL or as free agents that could adequately compete at the AHL level? They'd at best get one guy, and that's not enough to make a difference, especially for a short term injury situations.

There isn't a hockey organization in existence that can lose HALF of their starting forwards to injury and still be competitive. NOBODY has that kind of organizational depth.

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12-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Do you honestly believe that with 6 starting forwards out that the Amerks could find 6 replacements at the ECHL or as free agents that could adequately compete at the AHL level? They'd at best get one guy, and that's not enough to make a difference, especially for a short term injury situations.
Stop putting words into my mouth in this argument, it's getting old. Who in the world said to find 6 replacements? Seriously, find where I said that. They had extra forwards, so they didn't need 6 replacements, obviously. They needed 1 or 2 to give them a full compliment of forwards.

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12-11-2012, 01:12 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Stop putting words into my mouth in this argument, it's getting old. Who in the world said to find 6 replacements? Seriously, find where I said that. They had extra forwards, so they didn't need 6 replacements, obviously. They needed 1 or 2 to give them a full compliment of forwards.
I misread something then, so I apologize.

I'll rephrase.

Do you honestly think that if they did pick up one or two forwards from the ECHL or as free agents that the outcomes of those games would have been any different?

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12-11-2012, 01:21 PM
  #483
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I'm not siding with either side of this argument, since I know nothing about this Collins guy. I think, at the bare minimum, giving your own guys at the lower leagues a chance to play, since they gave them entry level deals and everything, makes sense. I've been tracking Lagace, Boychuk, and Szydlowski, none of them have earned a callup, but if you're looking for healthy bodies and they're your players to begin with, you might as well give them a chance and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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12-11-2012, 01:30 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Rammstein816 View Post
I'm not siding with either side of this argument, since I know nothing about this Collins guy. I think, at the bare minimum, giving your own guys at the lower leagues a chance to play, since they gave them entry level deals and everything, makes sense. I've been tracking Lagace, Boychuk, and Szydlowski, none of them have earned a callup, but if you're looking for healthy bodies and they're your players to begin with, you might as well give them a chance and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Don't disagree with that.

At the core, I don't think it's THAT big a deal for a hockey team to go short at forward and play a defenseman there for short stretches due to a rash of injuries. I think that defenseman is probably going to give you the same thing that a lower league forward will, and already knows the system and what is expected of him. All things being equal, Igenerally don't think it makes sense to bring a guy up from somewhere else unless you think you'll need him for at least 2-3 calendar weeks, but that's my personal take.

sabrefan27 thinks otherwise. That's fine, I respect that.

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12-11-2012, 01:31 PM
  #485
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It's not surprising to see locals and writers up in arms over their current lack of transactions, as they're not meaningless December games and count the same as the ones in March. And I do get that 7-8 concurrent injuries isn't the norm and that players and/or medical staff can mislead staff with optimistic timetables or even regress, but you're telling me that with all their scouting in Ontario, the Sabres couldn't find one or two forwards to sign to a try-out for the last game in Toronto just in case Crawford and/or Rankin couldn't go? I mean, they had no problem signing Grimshaw last year when the D desperately needed help, but hey, maybe that's only because a playoff berth was on the line at the time.

I do agree that it's doubtful that any addition would have made an impact in the last few games, especially with such little TOI, but who's to say some kid doesn't come in and show glimpses of potential, much like Roy did as a FA or even like Wise did in the summer camp? I mean it took Flynn 6-7 games before he settled in and hit his hot streak, but you'll never know until you take a chance on someone. They did find Rankin after all and he's an effective player at this level.

In sum, it's just frustrating to their fans to see so much inactivity with the injuries, out-of-position skaters and missed opportunities/points, that they'll continue to vent until someone's healthy or a transaction's made, a la #DoSomethingDarcy.

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12-11-2012, 01:53 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I misread something then, so I apologize.

I'll rephrase.

Do you honestly think that if they did pick up one or two forwards from the ECHL or as free agents that the outcomes of those games would have been any different?
No, but that's not the point of what I'm saying or what I have been saying. A professional team in, what is now, the top league in North America should be playing their games with 12 forwards. Not 10 + 1 defenseman. That's not how a well run organization operates.

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12-11-2012, 01:56 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
It's not surprising to see locals and writers up in arms over their current lack of transactions, as they're not meaningless December games and count the same as the ones in March. And I do get that 7-8 concurrent injuries isn't the norm and that players and/or medical staff can mislead staff with optimistic timetables or even regress, but you're telling me that with all their scouting in Ontario, the Sabres couldn't find one or two forwards to sign to a try-out for the last game in Toronto just in case Crawford and/or Rankin couldn't go? I mean, they had no problem signing Grimshaw last year when the D desperately needed help, but hey, maybe that's only because a playoff berth was on the line at the time.

I do agree that it's doubtful that any addition would have made an impact in the last few games, especially with such little TOI, but who's to say some kid doesn't come in and show glimpses of potential, much like Roy did as a FA or even like Wise did in the summer camp? I mean it took Flynn 6-7 games before he settled in and hit his hot streak, but you'll never know until you take a chance on someone. They did find Rankin after all and he's an effective player at this level.

In sum, it's just frustrating to their fans to see so much inactivity with the injuries, out-of-position skaters and missed opportunities/points, that they'll continue to vent until someone's healthy or a transaction's made, a la #DoSomethingDarcy.
Exactly, and what if 1 of the 10 forwards gets hurt in the 1st period. Now the Amerks are supposed to play with 9 forwards? Is this AHL hockey or a mens league?

And you bring up a great point about Rankin. He was originally just supposed to be a weekend injury replacement. Look how that turned out.

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12-11-2012, 02:03 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
No, but that's not the point of what I'm saying or what I have been saying. A professional team in, what is now, the top league in North America should be playing their games with 12 forwards. Not 10 + 1 defenseman. That's not how a well run organization operates.
I fully expect you to have the same strenuous objection to every other AHL and NHL team that does this from time to time as circumstances happen.

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12-11-2012, 02:14 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I fully expect you to have the same strenuous objection to every other AHL and NHL team that does this from time to time as circumstances happen.
Absolutely. I can understand if the Amerks were on the road on Friday and had a quick game on Saturday and couldn't get a player there in time. No issue. But when you've had 1-2 weeks to do it, there's a problem.

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12-11-2012, 03:32 PM
  #490
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No surprise to see that only the Amerks fans are pissed off about this yet again mediocre and poorly run hockey team.

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12-11-2012, 04:13 PM
  #491
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The ownership has changed, but we read about the same old gripes. What is the common denominator here?

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12-11-2012, 04:18 PM
  #492
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The ownership has changed, but we read about the same old gripes. What is the common denominator here?
Darcy Regier and mediocrity.

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12-11-2012, 04:27 PM
  #493
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Aaand round and round we go!

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12-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #494
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I don't think the roster is that mediocre, when healthy. I think it's a pretty good roster, actually, when they have their full complement. The problem is that they don't seem to prepare for injuries--especially to top players--notwithstanding the fact that injuries often do happen. That is, they presume good or great health, and that's the exception more than the rule. Then they get caught with their proverbial pants down, and have to do things like dressing eight defensemen. IMO, that is the major problem. Well, that and I think the coach is a tad over his head at this level.

But, if fully healthy, a top-9 of something like Foligno-Hodgson-Tropp, Adam-Porter-Mancari (when those guys perform as they should), and Girgensons-Varone-Flynn is pretty good at the AHL level.

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12-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Darcy Regierand mediocrity.
Darcy Regier has been the GM of the Rochester Americans for 1 complete season. They finished second in their division, and lost to a vastly superior Marlies team that made it to the Calder Cup finals.

How terrible.

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12-11-2012, 04:30 PM
  #496
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I don't think the roster is that mediocre, when healthy. I think it's a pretty good roster, actually, when they have their full complement. The problem is that they don't seem to prepare for injuries--especially to top players--notwithstanding the fact that injuries often do happen. That is, they presume good or great health, and that's the exception more than the rule. Then they get caught with their proverbial pants down, and have to do things like dressing eight defensemen. IMO, that is the major problem. Well, that and I think the coach is a tad over his head at this level.

But, if fully healthy, a top-9 of something like Foligno-Hodgson-Tropp, Adam-Porter-Mancari (when those guys perform as they should), and Girgensons-Varone-Flynn is pretty good at the AHL level.
Perfectly legitimate criticisms IMO. Include Ron Ron. Like the guy, but something about him just seems like he's not ready for this level of competition.

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12-11-2012, 04:32 PM
  #497
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I think we have to ask ourselves how much authority Devine has when it comes to the Amerks. Regier has referred to him on several occasions as his Assistant GM and has gone well past suggesting that it is Devine, not Regier, that is running the Amerks. Could Darcy trump Devine and go out and sign a player? I'm sure. But do we know that Devine has asked for that, or that Devine hasn't suggested they just have to ride out the injuries? We don't.

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12-11-2012, 04:42 PM
  #498
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Darcy Regier has been the GM of the Rochester Americans for 1 complete season. They finished second in their division, and lost to a vastly superior Marlies team that made it to the Calder Cup finals.

How terrible.
Regier has been the GM of the Amerks for many season dating back to 1997. Is it any coincidence that the Amerks last won the Calder Cup in 1996?

But his tenure is hard to judge since the late 90's and early 2000's Donner was still signing his own players.

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I think we have to ask ourselves how much authority Devine has when it comes to the Amerks. Regier has referred to him on several occasions as his Assistant GM and has gone well past suggesting that it is Devine, not Regier, that is running the Amerks. Could Darcy trump Devine and go out and sign a player? I'm sure. But do we know that Devine has asked for that, or that Devine hasn't suggested they just have to ride out the injuries? We don't.
Agreed here. Devine could be just as much of a problem. I think a solution could be putting Jody Gage back in charge.

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12-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #499
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I don't think the roster is that mediocre, when healthy. I think it's a pretty good roster, actually, when they have their full complement. The problem is that they don't seem to prepare for injuries--especially to top players-
And the bold part is being mediocre and a poorly run hockey team. There's no excuses for Tropp not being replaced when he went out the first game of the season.

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12-11-2012, 04:48 PM
  #500
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Regier has been the GM of the Amerks for many season dating back to 1997. Is it any coincidence that the Amerks last won the Calder Cup in 1996?

But his tenure is hard to judge since the late 90's and early 2000's Donner was still signing his own players.


Agreed here. Devine could be just as much of a problem. I think a solution could be putting Jody Gage back in charge.


1. Not Darcy Regier.
2. Was GM from 1996 - 2009.

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