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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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12-11-2012, 01:36 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How is that?
He has an established reputation already.

He's not a hockey guy.

He didn't want this gig in the first place and warned the NHLPA that if they hired him that he'd take it all the way.

He's just running his playbook, and believe me I'm not saying any of these things are bad. He gets results, the players hired him to get results but he doesn't care what heppens to the NHL, the teams or the players beyond this stint.

Once this negotiation is over he's done as the head of the PA and he'll move on.

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12-11-2012, 01:47 PM
  #552
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Will the mediators bridge the gap? I hope so...

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12-11-2012, 01:58 PM
  #553
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if the mediators put guns to their heads then maybe.

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12-11-2012, 02:01 PM
  #554
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if the mediators put guns to their heads then maybe.
Even then...

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:08 PM
  #555
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I've noticed these boycott proposals, I saw one on sports net "Just Drop It"... I think what is making people so disgusted is that this is lockout based on pure greed. Last lockout was over a systemic change in the business of the game.

I personally can't stop watching because I love hockey and the Rangers too much, but I will find ways to teach the NHL a lesson. For one I'm not buying anymore NHL licensed merchandise for myself or for friends and family as gifts and this was going to be the first year I bought the Center Ice Package. Fans gotta step up and teach both sides a lesson, they are fighting over the money from our wallets.

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12-11-2012, 02:12 PM
  #556
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Daily News

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Marian Gaborik (off-season shoulder surgery), Rick Nash (aggravated groin) and Carl Hagelin (shoulder) all would be available for an early-January training camp and start to the season, the Daily News has learned.
Gaborik is the only real news there.

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12-11-2012, 02:16 PM
  #557
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Small NHL group with no owners (just Bettman and Daly I assume?) doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in this meeting meaning much. I expect some rhetoric about "the NHLPA wanted us to meet but I don't know why, we already told them this **** is off the table and there's no point to having a mediator here"

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12-11-2012, 02:43 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Small NHL group with no owners (just Bettman and Daly I assume?) doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in this meeting meaning much. I expect some rhetoric about "the NHLPA wanted us to meet but I don't know why, we already told them this **** is off the table and there's no point to having a mediator here"
Bettman, Daly, and the Fehr brothers are going to have to be there for any deal to be struck.

Im not confident now, but I was even less confident with that rudderless dog and pony show last week.

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12-11-2012, 02:53 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
Even in regular unions the rank and file do not take kindly to dissenters when it comes to labor negotiations.
And people wonder why unions are losing influence in this country.

Scott Hartnell really has Roman Hamrlik's interests in mind, clearly.

Hamrlik feels his interests are not being represented. He voices that opinion. Hartnell promises retribution, basically.

So shut up, take a deal that isn't good for you, and if you object, you'll be punished.

Sounds legit.

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12-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
How about ??

settlement announced 02:42 thursday morning (can't announce resolution during the day). Press conference (no jackets, no ties, everyone looks tired and sweating as if they battled in a heavyweight fight (great for effect)

Schedule starts New Year's Eve.

Do they really want to miss more games and play for the Jan 15 start?
The New Years day start time makes sense. Although no winter Classic, the NHL can still own this day with a Season Opening triple header on NBC.

BTW, Knicks have a 7:30 game New Years day, so door open for a 12:00 start to kick off the season.

OK. Now back to reality .

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12-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #561
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The moderates on each side were working the phones all weekend long, sources told ESPN.com, pushing like crazy for both sides to resume talks, back-channelling between owners, agents and players stressing the need to get right back at it in an effort to once and for all end a lockout that should have never lasted this long.

And even then, there’s still no guarantee it’s going to work, although I will maintain that both sides are not that far apart on a deal.

Just who would be in the room was going to be finalized Tuesday by the NHL and NHLPA, with sources indicating the league was leaning towards no owners this time, while the union may still invite players. But sources said federal mediators will be involved again.

Among those working behind the scenes to try and get things back on track has been New York Rangers owner James Dolan and Pittsburgh Penguins owner Ron Burkle, sources said.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-back-to-table

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:06 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Daily News


Gaborik is the only real news there.
Alright **** just got serious. Lockout can end now that Gaborik is ready to go

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12-11-2012, 03:41 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
And people wonder why unions are losing influence in this country.

Scott Hartnell really has Roman Hamrlik's interests in mind, clearly.

Hamrlik feels his interests are not being represented. He voices that opinion. Hartnell promises retribution, basically.

So shut up, take a deal that isn't good for you, and if you object, you'll be punished.

Sounds legit.
But everytime a Recchi or Hamerlik open their mouths and plead for yhe union to cave in, the league is emboldened to hold out. So long as they think players will crack, they will ask for more. Hamerlik is working against his own interests. No group of fans reading twitter or a paper is going to end a lockout even if they agree with Roman.

He has the channels to talk to players privately. He can show up at meetings. But publicly telling the union to fold leads to owners saying "see, see! They're cracking! Lets ask for more.". The players accepted the league's cba structure and they pulled the deal. That's what happens with perceived weakness.

I'll qualify all of this by saying Hartnell and Prust should shut up too, they help nothing and come off poorly threatening people via twitter. But Roman is working directly against his goals.

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12-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
And people wonder why unions are losing influence in this country.

Scott Hartnell really has Roman Hamrlik's interests in mind, clearly.

Hamrlik feels his interests are not being represented. He voices that opinion. Hartnell promises retribution, basically.

So shut up, take a deal that isn't good for you, and if you object, you'll be punished.

Sounds legit.
Actually kind of sounds like the NHL without the $1 mill fine!

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12-11-2012, 04:01 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
But everytime a Recchi or Hamerlik open their mouths and plead for yhe union to cave in, the league is emboldened to hold out. So long as they think players will crack, they will ask for more. Hamerlik is working against his own interests. No group of fans reading twitter or a paper is going to end a lockout even if they agree with Roman.

He has the channels to talk to players privately. He can show up at meetings. But publicly telling the union to fold leads to owners saying "see, see! They're cracking! Lets ask for more.". The players accepted the league's cba structure and they pulled the deal. That's what happens with perceived weakness.

I'll qualify all of this by saying Hartnell and Prust should shut up too, they help nothing and come off poorly threatening people via twitter. But Roman is working directly against his goals.
Do you know how old Roman Hamrlik is? How is he working against his goals, exactly?

He wants to play hockey - why should he be concerned about what money Fehr is fighting for down the road?

Unions crack because theres just too many dissenting opinions like this one. Hamrlik's quotes were a breath of fresh air as far as Im concerned. And it goes both ways for me, I'd love an owner to come out, tell Gary to take his fine and shove it up his ass, and tell us how he really feels.

Enough of this "fall in line or be chastised" crap - especially when the two leaders of this negotiation are driving it straight into a ditch.

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Old
12-11-2012, 04:47 PM
  #566
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Good read from Cotsonika, who I feel has had a good pulse on the situation:

Quote:
The sides aren't as close as NHLPA executive director Don Fehr made them seem last week. But they aren't as far apart as NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly made them seem. At this point, if the deal doesn't get done, if the lockout doesn't end by mid-January at the latest, it won't be because of principles or economics. It will be because the leadership (bleeped) it up.
Quote:
There is also a ton of fine print to write. Just two examples: As far as the NHL knows, the NHLPA is still proposing a minimum salary cap of $67.25 million. The NHLPA is still proposing the cap and floor be plus and minus 20 percent of the midpoint, widening the salary range. The league wants the cap to be set at $60 million for two years, then to reflect what it feels is a true 50-50 split. It wants the cap and floor set at a smaller percentage of the midpoint, so the salary range stays tight – so the rich cannot outspend the poor too much while the poor don't have to keep up with the rich.

In short, there is still a lot of haggling to be done.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--no...221220355.html

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
  #567
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Its actually $70.2M for the rest of 12-13 or 13. Then $60M.

50/50 split
Term limits
The PA even proposed players playing in the AHL or Europe making over $1M counting against the cap for SPCs signed in the new CBA.

The NHL will achieve the tightness they wanted.

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12-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #568
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Its actually $70.2M for the rest of 12-13 or 13. Then $60M.

50/50 split
Term limits
The PA even proposed players playing in the AHL or Europe making over $1M counting against the cap for SPCs signed in the new CBA.

The NHL will achieve the tightness they wanted.
So the Redden contract won't necessarily screw us over cap-wise? I'm worried that Redden and his huge cap hit will count.

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12-11-2012, 05:06 PM
  #569
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I expect #NHLPA to accept 10 yr #CBA if #NHL gives a little on some contract rights
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...35827607764992

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12-11-2012, 05:07 PM
  #570
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So the Redden contract won't necessarily screw us over cap-wise? I'm worried that Redden and his huge cap hit will count.
No, it will. But the cap will likely be $70.2M in the first year, making it somewhat manageable. The 2nd year he'd likely have to be bought out.

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12-11-2012, 05:12 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
So the Redden contract won't necessarily screw us over cap-wise? I'm worried that Redden and his huge cap hit will count.
The NHL proposed AHL salaries above $105,000 count against the cap. Existing contracts and new SPCs signed in the new CBA. The NHLPA proposed salaries in excess of $1M for players playing in the AHL or Europe count against the cap for new contracts. The NHLPA and some big market teams want an amnesty buyout. It depends how the deals shakes out.

Elliotte Friedman addressed the amnesty buyout and $60M cap issue

Quote:
As we move closer to a CBA, amid all of the fire-spitting, the biggest question now among teams is the "transition rules." The NHL says it doesn't want amnesties or an escrow limit. So if the cap is $60 million in 2013-14, how are the Lightning ($57.5 million for 15 players), Philadelphia Flyers ($57M for 16) and Boston Bruins ($57M for 16, no goalies) among others going to make it work?
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...out-fixer.html

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12-11-2012, 05:15 PM
  #572
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No, it will. But the cap will likely be $70.2M in the first year, making it somewhat manageable. The 2nd year he'd likely have to be bought out.
The players' proposal only applies only to new contracts. But they'll probably negotiate it down to contracts over 1 million no matter when they were signed. And Redden's cap geek buyout numbers don't look good either, unless they change the formula:
2013-14: $3,166,667
2014-15: $1,666,667

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12-11-2012, 05:16 PM
  #573
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The NHL proposed AHL salaries above $105,000 count against the cap. Existing contracts and new SPCs signed in the new CBA. The NHLPA proposed salaries in excess of $1M for players playing in the AHL or Europe count against the cap for new contracts. The NHLPA and some big market teams want an amnesty buyout. It depends how the deals shakes out.

Elliotte Friedman addressed the amnesty buyout and $60M cap issue



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...out-fixer.html
Thanks. I don't understand why the NHL is so uptight on these transition issues. You don't have to issue an amnesty buyout if you don't want to. And it looks like the majority of teams would be screwing themselves in this situation.

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12-11-2012, 05:28 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Do you know how old Roman Hamrlik is? How is he working against his goals, exactly?

He wants to play hockey - why should he be concerned about what money Fehr is fighting for down the road?

Unions crack because theres just too many dissenting opinions like this one. Hamrlik's quotes were a breath of fresh air as far as Im concerned. And it goes both ways for me, I'd love an owner to come out, tell Gary to take his fine and shove it up his ass, and tell us how he really feels.

Enough of this "fall in line or be chastised" crap - especially when the two leaders of this negotiation are driving it straight into a ditch.
I think you misunderstand. Hamerlik is more than entitled to his opinion, and being the only vet of three lockouts he should carry much respect in a room. He has no obligation to fall in line.

My perception is any union dissent works against a quick resolution. The league, again in my opinion, is pushing this until they see the union's line in the sand. If the union looks like their ranks will break, I think another 2005 happens and the owners wait for the infighting. He should tell the members his side and how, in his opinion, a protracted dispute is not worth it. But not in the press.

Gary sees the importance of the unified front as demonstrated by the gag order. Roman is no doubt a breath of fresh air and humanity. But Gary feels that if the owners bicker publicly and show a division, the players will grab for more. Like you, I would love to see a Dolan speak his mind... but I don't expect it because of the negotiation and perceptions.

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12-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #575
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I find it kinda amusing that after a lot of people were screaming at the PA to stop making proposals that delinked from revenue, even in the early stages, the NHL made a proposal that delinked from revenue in the early stages.

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