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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:23 PM
  #576
Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I find it kinda amusing that after a lot of people were screaming at the PA to stop making proposals that delinked from revenue, even in the early stages, the NHL made a proposal that delinked from revenue in the early stages.
Umm, when?

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12-11-2012, 06:30 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I think you misunderstand. Hamerlik is more than entitled to his opinion, and being the only vet of three lockouts he should carry much respect in a room. He has no obligation to fall in line.

My perception is any union dissent works against a quick resolution. The league, again in my opinion, is pushing this until they see the union's line in the sand. If the union looks like their ranks will break, I think another 2005 happens and the owners wait for the infighting. He should tell the members his side and how, in his opinion, a protracted dispute is not worth it. But not in the press.

Gary sees the importance of the unified front as demonstrated by the gag order. Roman is no doubt a breath of fresh air and humanity. But Gary feels that if the owners bicker publicly and show a division, the players will grab for more. Like you, I would love to see a Dolan speak his mind... but I don't expect it because of the negotiation and perceptions.
I dont think I misunderstand at all.

What you're basically saying is 'Hamrlik is entitled to his own opinion....unless his opinion is one of dissent, which might embolden the owners.'

Kind of works against the whole 'entitled to his opinion' thing, isnt it?

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:38 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Umm, when?
$60m in season 2 of the deal is delinked.

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12-11-2012, 06:40 PM
  #579
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He's entitled to his opinion but that doesn't mean he won't get **** for it

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
$60m in season 2 of the deal is delinked.
Link? It was my understanding that was an estimated number.

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12-11-2012, 06:45 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
$60m in season 2 of the deal is delinked.
That's just the cap #. Share is still linked and set at 50/50.

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12-11-2012, 06:46 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont think I misunderstand at all.

What you're basically saying is 'Hamrlik is entitled to his own opinion....unless his opinion is one of dissent, which might embolden the owners.'

Kind of works against the whole 'entitled to his opinion' thing, isnt it?
This isn't a free thought issue. Hell, it's not even a free speech issue. People and think and say anything they want. But if they say something in public that many should feel should be kept private, they're going to take **** for it. No one is saying that he shouldn't be allowed to say or think what he does. As Levitate said, that doesn't exempt one from criticism.

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12-11-2012, 06:50 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Link? It was my understanding that was an estimated number.
It's been all over the place. Hell, it was on the page before this. Elliot Friedman article. Cotsonika article. Read em.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
That's just the cap #. Share is still linked and set at 50/50.
What's your point? The setting of the cap is what drives spending. A bunch of the PAs various proposals have had a delinked cap with a linked share. It's the same thing.

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12-11-2012, 06:50 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
This isn't a free thought issue. Hell, it's not even a free speech issue. People and think and say anything they want. But if they say something in public that many should feel should be kept private, they're going to take **** for it. No one is saying that he shouldn't be allowed to say or think what he does. As Levitate said, that doesn't exempt one from criticism.
Does criticism = on-ice physical retribution?

"I can't wait to see what his teammates do when guys go after him"

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12-11-2012, 06:53 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont think I misunderstand at all.

What you're basically saying is 'Hamrlik is entitled to his own opinion....unless his opinion is one of dissent, which might embolden the owners.'

Kind of works against the whole 'entitled to his opinion' thing, isnt it?
Right, so when he wants a quick ending and publicly dissents he hurts the chance of a fast resolution.

He can say what he wants and guys are wrong for their responses against that. Dissent just works against his wishes to play hockey soon. I think you are looking for anti-Hamrlik, and I'm sorry my spelling from my phone offends you, rhetoric and pro-union commentary to piss on. That's not what I'm spouting. I never meant to initiate combative debate so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

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12-11-2012, 06:54 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
What's your point? The setting of the cap is what drives spending. A bunch of the PAs various proposals have had a delinked cap with a linked share. It's the same thing.
The PA proposed $ payout be fixed regardless of what revenues come in at. Share as a % could be anything. They would get $1.8-$1.9B (forget what their last proposal was) regardless of what revenue actualized at.

NHL proposed a $60M cap to set team spending guidelines; all the $60M cap does is decide how teams can allocate money up front. With a share that is a fixed % the actual amount paid to players will always be 50% but the $ can fluctuate. If each team spends $50M ($1.5B) but actual revenue comes in at $3.4B, the players real share will be $1.7M and the players will collect $200M prorated out.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:55 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Does criticism = on-ice physical retribution?

"I can't wait to see what his teammates do when guys go after him"
In no way does that promise retribution. It says guys are going to go after him, which they would do anyway. What does that even mean? Physical abuse, verbal abuse?

Besides, if that's what he promising, then that's stupid. But if that's what Hartnell thinks, then that's fine. He's just an idiot and should be called such.

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:57 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The PA proposed $ payout be fixed regardless of what revenues come in at. Share as a % could be anything. They would get $1.8-$1.9B (forget what their last proposal was) regardless of what revenue actualized at.

NHL proposed a $60M cap to set team spending guidelines, and that's it. With a share that is a fixed % the actual amount paid to players will always be 50% but the $ can fluctuate. If each team spends $50M ($1.5B) but actual revenue comes in at $3.4B, the players real share will be $1.7M and the players will collect $200M prorated out.
Thanks for the explanation.

The PAs most recent proposal, in which they dropped to a 50% share, had the fixed dollar payout. It isn't the only proposal they've made and other proposals had delinkage early followed by linkage later. And that proposal pretty clearly conflicted with itself, which means it was designed for a provision to be dropped once the NHL made some movement towards the players. The tactic was transparent.

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12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Thanks for the explanation.

The PAs most recent proposal, in which they dropped to a 50% share, had the fixed dollar payout. It isn't the only proposal they've made and other proposals had delinkage early followed by linkage later. And that proposal pretty clearly conflicted with itself, which means it was designed for a provision to be dropped once the NHL made some concessions. The tactic was transparent.
Still, the NHL's proposal in no way involves de-linkage, which was your original point.

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12-11-2012, 07:00 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Still, the NHL's proposal in no way involves de-linkage, which was your original point.
It involves delinking the cap. Which I explained in my follow up post.

Obstinate much?

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12-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
It involves delinking the cap. Which I explained in my follow up post.

Obstinate much?
The $60M cap is an estimation (therefore "de-linked"), as the cap always is when it is put into place.

Your original point was that:

Quote:
a lot of people were screaming at the PA to stop making proposals that delinked from revenue, even in the early stages, the NHL made a proposal that delinked from revenue in the early stages.
The de-linkage of the cap, if you can call it that, is wildly different than the de-linking of the actual dollars players are owed. So that would explain why people are viewing the two proposals differently.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:13 PM
  #592
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The cap is not usually an estimation. It is usually a projection, which is a fundamentally different thing. Given that we don't know what the $60m cap's midpoint would be, I don't think you could claim it to be a projection.

And once again, I further explained my post.

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12-11-2012, 08:48 PM
  #593
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Just realized the title of this thread is VIIII rather than IX. Made me chuckle.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
  #594
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Just realized the title of this thread is VIIII rather than IX. Made me chuckle.
Part 10 has options. It could be VIIIII VV or IIIIIIIIII

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12-11-2012, 10:29 PM
  #595
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part 10 has options. It could be viiiii vv or iiiiiiiiii
Could go XXXXXXXXXC.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:59 PM
  #596
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Just realized the title of this thread is VIIII rather than IX. Made me chuckle.
Sorry guys, I wasn't paying attention on this one LOL.

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12-11-2012, 11:03 PM
  #597
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“@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA Federal mediators will join CBA talks Wednesday in NYC. Relatively small group expected on NHL side, likely no owners”
Mmmm. No Jacobs....

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12-11-2012, 11:06 PM
  #598
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It involves delinking the cap. Which I explained in my follow up post.

Obstinate much?
No, it doesn't. The cap for next year HAS to be somewhat arbitrary. Revenues for this year will be likely half of last year and if the cap (not player share - which is what delinkage refers to) was tied to player share, we'd have a cap around 35 mil.

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12-12-2012, 12:20 AM
  #599
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just cancel the season already

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:00 AM
  #600
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Henrik either wrote this or Larry wrote it for him after talking to him

Quote:
Rangers goaltender Henrik Lundqvist spent a couple of days in New York this week before returning home to Gothenburg, Sweden, where he has spent the NHL lockout.

Before catching his flight yesterday, The King expressed his thoughts and emotions to the Post’s Larry Brooks.
Quote:
When I went past the Garden I thought about the excitement our fans bring that makes it so special. I know the fans are really upset, and they have a right to be. They deserve better. I really mean that. They are so loyal. They spend so much money for tickets and merchandise and to be there to support the team.

The fans deserve better. The game of hockey deserves better. I can’t even express how much I hope we’re back playing very, very soon.

I can’t wait to be in a Rangers uniform again.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

The Post made it sound like it was an interview but it looks Henrik wrote it.

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