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Off-Season Madness the 9th: Tom Cheek Memorial Edition

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:27 PM
  #851
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Tex has been pretty bad for the last 2-3 years, don't let the team success get to you. What did he bat this year like .250 lol. His numbers like any other Yankee are built up on the porch fence. He's old and declining. Any other ballpark and Tex would have less than 20 HR's IMO Yankee stadium is a joke.

He hit as many HRs on the road last season as he did at home. Outside of 09 season his HRs splits aren't too bad.

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12-11-2012, 07:28 PM
  #852
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Wow, I dunno. Like I said I'm really confused, we could've given up Escobar and a good prospect for Bauer if thats the price. WTF is Arizona doing?
Well its not official yet so we can't be sure if hes actually being traded.

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12-11-2012, 07:29 PM
  #853
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A higher SLG could also suggest that they are better gap hitters on the road.

Well they had a highest road HR total in baseball in 2012.

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12-11-2012, 07:30 PM
  #854
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They must really like Gregorious.

Apparently Towers loves him.

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12-11-2012, 07:33 PM
  #855
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He hit as many HRs on the road last season as he did at home. Outside of 09 season his HRs splits aren't too bad.
I'll bet he has an off year this season. At some point this team is going to come crashing down. Jeter is already down. Arod is down. Tex is going on 33 years old, Granderson strikes out a million times a year. Sorry but the Yankees dynasty is over. Time for the Jays to take over and dominate.

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12-11-2012, 07:34 PM
  #856
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Rosenthal is speculating that Napoli's deal with the Sox might be in jeopardy. If that falls through, he'd definitely be welcome here as a DH.
I thought he signed already?

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12-11-2012, 07:35 PM
  #857
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I'll bet he has an off year this season. At some point this team is going to come crashing down. Jeter is already down. Arod is down. Tex is going on 33 years old, Granderson strikes out a million times a year. Sorry but the Yankees dynasty is over. Time for the Jays to take over and dominate.
Amen to that.

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12-11-2012, 07:35 PM
  #858
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I thought he signed already?
Pending physical. Announcement was supposed to be today and was postponed, causing the speculation.

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12-11-2012, 07:36 PM
  #859
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Apparently Towers loves him.
Love can blind you ... ?

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12-11-2012, 07:37 PM
  #860
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Pending physical. Announcement was supposed to be today and was postponed, causing the speculation.
Oh. I'd take him as our Dh, just nothing near 3 39.

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12-11-2012, 07:39 PM
  #861
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Ah, I wasn't exactly clear at the end there. What I meant to say is since WAR accumulates over innings, so WAR doesn't necessarily express inning-by-inning effectiveness. But... that's not really saying anything at all since that's the case for position player WAR too haha.
Nope... but that would be sorta interesting because the fluctuations would be crazy.

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I guess in my mind, with pitcher injuries so common, I find extrapolating a pitcher's WAR across a whole season kind of a silly exercise. But... perhaps that's just me being conditioned as a Jays fan and being a big Morrow fan haha.
It goes to show you that just eating up innings is valuable.

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On a more philosophical note, I interpret stats like FIP as a way of wiping away the noise to look at a pitcher's true fundamentals over a long timeframe. In any given season, you'll find guys with low ERAs and high FIP, as pitchers can get lucky for an entire season with their BABIP, LOB, and/or HR/FB. However, even if they were "lucky", I still think it's fine to say a starter had a good season if he's got a lot of wins and a low ERA, despite his FIP.
That's pretty much my thinking. Look at Ricky in 2011 for example, he pitched well. His FIP is was kinda mediocre (mainly because of HR given up) but you watch him pitch and the way batters were struggle to make good contact, struggling to hit line drives. It is probably unsustainable but it isn't all "luck" because you can still be good and be a bit lucky to go along with that.

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So... I guess I'm just stating the obvious that FIP, and hence WAR, is very volatile, so it doesn't necessarily predict a pitcher's contribution to "wins" in a given year, but it's certainly the best tool in doing so over a longer timeframe.
Yup, its a good estimation tool to see how things look. Personally, I don't even look at FIP all that much, I kinda just like looking at the peripherals, including the H/9, IP and come to my own conclusion on how good the pitcher is. My one complaint with the FIP is that it doesn't include H/9 or any sort of batted balls data... I understand FIP is there to exclude the hits allowed because pitchers "don't have control" over it but I kinda like to think some pitchers do. There are some guys that are just tough to hit, tough to make good contact against and then there are some junk tossers who players will barrel up pitches against them all day long. I guess what I am saying is that I think pitchers have control on how hard or weak contact they will give up because it depends on what they are throwing/how hard they are throwing and where they are throwing.
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There are the same drawbacks in position player WAR, but I suspect it's less volatile given there's a wider array of inputs, plus a batter's contribution to the offense via wOBA is far less abstract than FIP's assumptions of a pitcher's contribution to defence (single, double, etc. vs. BABIP, LOB%, BB%, K%, HR/FB, etc.)
I am fine with the position player's WAR though I don't use it as a definite tool of how good this X guy was last year because of his WAR because the defense and baserunning aren't exactly easy to judge or calculate but it gives me a good idea of how good he is though.

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They're trading Stubbs, so likely that they are putting Choo at CF or getting a replacement.
Yeah, they recently re-signed Ludwick too which I kinda forgot about and have Jay Bruce. So he will be playing CF which is kinda really dumb.

Gose + Lind for Votto!

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:43 PM
  #862
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I thought he signed already?
Like all players he had to pass a physical first. Some are speculating something was found which is why there's a hold up.

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12-11-2012, 07:44 PM
  #863
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Oh hey, Jason Donald is going to the Reds in the deal. Remember, he was the guy in the Cliff Lee trade from the Phillies (and one of the guys that repeatedly came up in Halladay rumours). Looking back at all those Cliff Lee trades, it seems kinda funny that literally almost all those prospects traded have been busts (the one Cleveland got from Phillies, the one Phillies got from Seattle and the ones Seattle got from Texas. Clearly Jays should have traded for Cliff Lee, the prospects given up would have been busts. ).

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12-11-2012, 07:49 PM
  #864
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Oh hey, Jason Donald is going to the Reds in the deal. Remember, he was the guy in the Cliff Lee trade from the Phillies (and one of the guys that repeatedly came up in Halladay rumours). Looking back at all those Cliff Lee trades, it seems kinda funny that literally almost all those prospects traded have been busts (the one Cleveland got from Phillies, the one Phillies got from Seattle and the ones Seattle got from Texas. Clearly Jays should have traded for Cliff Lee, the prospects given up would have been busts. ).
Well there's Justin Smoak...who's not completely terrible. I mean atleast he hits a homerun from time to time.

Pretty crazy to think that he (Lee) was packaged with Brandon Phillips and Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon.

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12-11-2012, 07:52 PM
  #865
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Oh hey, Jason Donald is going to the Reds in the deal. Remember, he was the guy in the Cliff Lee trade from the Phillies (and one of the guys that repeatedly came up in Halladay rumours). Looking back at all those Cliff Lee trades, it seems kinda funny that literally almost all those prospects traded have been busts (the one Cleveland got from Phillies, the one Phillies got from Seattle and the ones Seattle got from Texas. Clearly Jays should have traded for Cliff Lee, the prospects given up would have been busts. ).
Even the ones from Seattle haven't been that good. Phillippe Aumont looks to be a bullpen guy..

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12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
  #866
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curious to see what arizona gave up...

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12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
  #867
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wow looks like it is in fact bauer..

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:09 PM
  #868
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curious to see what napoli flushed down the toilet....


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Old
12-11-2012, 08:13 PM
  #869
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Wow, its crazy how little Bauer is being sold off for. God dammit, only if we had Hech, I would have easily traded him for Bauer.

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12-11-2012, 08:14 PM
  #870
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Apparently the Tribe get Bauer, Shaw AND Albers.

Not that the latter two are significant, but all for Gregorius? Has to be more to this.

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12-11-2012, 08:14 PM
  #871
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in a span of 3 days, the #3 and #5 prospect in all of baseball have been traded

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:18 PM
  #872
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Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

OFFICIAL: #Dbacks get SS Didi Gregorius, LHP Tony Sipp & 1B Lars Anderson from #Indians for RHPs Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
  #873
Nasty Nazem
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Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi
OFFICIAL: #Dbacks get SS Didi Gregorius, LHP Tony Sipp & 1B Lars Anderson from #Indians for RHPs Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.

Chris Young traded for nothing. Bauer traded for nothing because the organization simply doesn't like him. Stupid stuff from the Dbacks this season.

If only we could have kept Hech, he could have gotten us Bauer.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
  #874
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Now that is a trade.

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
  #875
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LHP Tony Sipp and 1B/OF Lars Anderson also going to #Dbacks

That's also not that bad actually.

But still, could have used Bauer for something big.

edit: nvm, checked out Sipp. I thought this guy was doing well last year but it's obvious he can only be used as a situational lefty now.

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