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Old
12-11-2012, 04:52 PM
  #901
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Fair enough, and you could be correct. Personally, I see Kadri on his way out possibly due to his own frustrations not cracking the roster. One of the reasons I like him is despite being weak defensively, he is a rare versatile playmaker. He could very well slot with Kesler if he surpassed expectations.

Suppose we'll see but I wager one of them is likely included in any potential deal. Depends if Burke wants to break up the number one line.
It would be an absolute coup if Brian Burke and Mike Gillis work out a deal for Roberto with Tyler Bozak as the main piece going back next summer, and then Burke uses all of his free cap space to lure a Ryan Getzlaf or makes another trade to fill Bozak's spot on the top line.

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12-11-2012, 04:52 PM
  #902
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But Iginla / Sundin weren't signed for another decade. And there certainly weren't questions about whether they could decline and how that decline could screw a team over.

Regardless, what do you think about: Bozak, Finn, Colborne + 2nd for Roberto?

I believe that's fair, IMO.
Most importantly, trading market for Iginla/Sundin was most likely larger (IMO, will dig up articles) than the current market for Luongo. Doesn't make much sense to compare a forward with a goaltender IMO. 'nucks will still get a decent deal, but not to the expectations of the fans who compare him with elite forwards.

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Old
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
  #903
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Most importantly, trading market for Iginla/Sundin was most likely larger (IMO, will dig up articles) than the current market for Luongo. Doesn't make much sense to compare a forward with a goaltender IMO. 'nucks will still get a decent deal, but not to the expectations of the fans who compare him with elite forwards.
Oh no doubt that they will get a respectable return. A roster player and a prospect or two plus a pick (not a first rounder IMO) will most likely head their way.

But I refuse to believe that the Canucks will be getting a player like Joffrey Lupul, Mikhail Grabovski, Jake Gardiner, etc., for Roberto like some Vancouver fans in here have been saying.

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Wouldn't the space freed up by moving him have some value to a contender?
Not unless we can come up with a quality 5 million dollar player to fill that capspace (like Perry).

Cap space is worthless unless your going to utilize it at some point.
(which is easier said than done)

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:08 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
I tried to ask this last night and all I got was that there is a greater weakness in the top six on the right wing and this is why the Canucks didn't win a stanley cup. I've been trying to find out why a team wouldnt want two great goaltenders the whole time.

To no avail.
For the same reason Jordan Staal was traded.

Center was a position of extreme strength for the Pens, so it was a position they could deal from.


Having 2 goalies is awesome, but if you can move 1 to address other issues on your roster/farm it makes sense, no?

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12-11-2012, 05:19 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Canucks can trade one of the goalies for an asset that addresses our major need then a deal will get done I'm sure. But that doesn't mean Gillis is going to just give Luongo away for Bozak and a 2nd like some have suggested.
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Oh no doubt that they will get a respectable return. A roster player and a prospect or two plus a pick (not a first rounder IMO) will most likely head their way.

But I refuse to believe that the Canucks will be getting a player like Joffrey Lupul, Mikhail Grabovski, Jake Gardiner, etc., for Roberto like some Vancouver fans in here have been saying .
i think thats been one fan in particular.

Ive been suggesting Connolly ,Kadri, Finn, Frattin for a while.

Doesnt take any pieces from the roster except Connolly.
Kadri is a piece I think everyone can see being moved.
Finn is looking like a strong prospect, but still sits behinf Gardiner/Reilly.

Frattin is one that is popular amongst Leafs fans, but theres still guys like Ashton and Biggs who are close to Being NHL talents.

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12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
i think thats been one fan in particular.

Ive been suggesting Connolly ,Kadri, Finn, Frattin for a while.

Doesnt take any pieces from the roster except Connolly.
Kadri is a piece I think everyone can see being moved.
Finn is looking like a strong prospect, but still sits behinf Gardiner/Reilly.

Frattin is one that is popular amongst Leafs fans, but theres still guys like Ashton and Biggs who are close to Being NHL talents.
Are you a Canucks' or Leafs' fan? How exactly does your proposed return make Vancouver (in any way) a better team? Actually, it makes Vancouver worse.

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12-11-2012, 05:36 PM
  #908
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Are you a Canucks' or Leafs' fan? How exactly does your proposed return make Vancouver (in any way) a better team? Actually, it makes Vancouver worse.
vancouver will be giving up the best player no matter where lou goes you can't give up the best player and not get worse

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:40 PM
  #909
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vancouver will be giving up the best player no matter where lou goes you can't give up the best player and not get worse
Point taken. Then maybe Gillis should be looking at a package going with Luongo to bring back a top player/prospect?

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12-11-2012, 05:40 PM
  #910
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Frattin is one that is popular amongst Leafs fans
Indeed. He has an NHL calibre shot, skating, and physical presence. I could see him being a consistent 25-25 guy at the NHL level, with the possibility of hitting 30 in his prime.

He's a much more safe bet than Nazem Kadri is.

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12-11-2012, 05:42 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
vancouver will be giving up the best player no matter where lou goes you can't give up the best player and not get worse
not true. the canucks simply need pieces that fit, its pretty obvious they wont get equal value, its more about the right fit. the TO proposals focus more on hitting a value amount than adressing specific needs.

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12-11-2012, 05:45 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Do you guys just keep forgetting Luongo wants a trade or are you in denial ? It's getting rediculous.

"Oh we will just keep the guy who doesn't want to be here and it won't be a distraction when the media asks our guys every night what is going on with Luongo"

Guess what you would be better off getting nothing back and moving him than keeping him with the media circus that would be following your team around. Not to mention his cap space would be better used in other positions.

Some of you guys have your head in the sand acting like if you keep ignoring these issues they will go away. This a far bigger reason why you will not get full value for him than his contract.
Luongo was at the team golf tournament before the lockout and says he's planning to report and be with the team.

I doubt the guy sits at home eating donuts, he will play and try to win the starting job back. If the media gets annoying the team will play through it, its not like the media won't swarm if we get where we're hoping to during the playoffs.

Also, if we found a better use for Luongo's cap space, we would probably go for it and trade Luongo after we secured this "better use". We currently have a guy on LTIR with a similar cap hit to Luongo so its not like having Luongo on the roster would stop us from making a move... The lack of a CBA would though.

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:49 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Point taken. Then maybe Gillis should be looking at a package going with Luongo to bring back a top player/prospect?
the only real expendable parts on the canucks are the dreaded Raymond + Ballard package, which would probly only appeal to a team with some cap space and in need of some speedburners.

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12-11-2012, 06:23 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
It would be an absolute coup if Brian Burke and Mike Gillis work out a deal for Roberto with Tyler Bozak as the main piece going back next summer, and then Burke uses all of his free cap space to lure a Ryan Getzlaf or makes another trade to fill Bozak's spot on the top line.
Honestly, if Burke traded three firsts for Luongo and Luongo improved your teams competitiveness to the point where you could attract a Getzlaf/Roy/Rebeiro and re-sign Phaneuf wouldn't you consider that a coup?

That's the way a buddy of mine who's a Leaf fan sees it. He thinks without a major upgrade in goal that you will be CBJ in a couple years.

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12-11-2012, 06:45 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Indeed. He has an NHL calibre shot, skating, and physical presence. I could see him being a consistent 25-25 guy at the NHL level, with the possibility of hitting 30 in his prime.

He's a much more safe bet than Nazem Kadri is.
Very unlikely Frattin develops into this level player IMO. There are very few players that consistently score 25 goals...

Wouldn't be surprised if he develops into a slightly inferior David Booth. Both players have very similar strengths and weaknesses. Consistent 15-15 guy is more realistic IMO.

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12-11-2012, 06:47 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
But Iginla / Sundin weren't signed for another decade. And there certainly weren't questions about whether they could decline and how that decline could screw a team over.

Regardless, what do you think about: Bozak, Finn, Colborne + 2nd for Roberto?

I believe that's fair, IMO.
This is the first time I think you and I can say this.

IMO I feel this is close. I may not like Bozak, but I feel Gillis does, and wants him. As pointed out, Finn would be like a downgrade on Gardiner, so I can see him also coming back. The only piece I would want to change is Colbourne, and depending how he changes depends on the pick at the end. For instance:

Bozak
Finn
Frattin
3rd?

Vs
Bozak
Finn
Ashton/Biggs
2nd

But that is just what I think

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12-11-2012, 07:01 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
This is the first time I think you and I can say this.

IMO I feel this is close. I may not like Bozak, but I feel Gillis does, and wants him. As pointed out, Finn would be like a downgrade on Gardiner, so I can see him also coming back. The only piece I would want to change is Colbourne, and depending how he changes depends on the pick at the end. For instance:

Bozak
Finn
Frattin
3rd?

Vs
Bozak
Finn
Ashton/Biggs
2nd

But that is just what I think
These are pretty decent.

I'd do Bozak, Finn, Ashton, 2nd in 2013.

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12-11-2012, 07:10 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
But Iginla / Sundin weren't signed for another decade. And there certainly weren't questions about whether they could decline and how that decline could screw a team over.

Regardless, what do you think about: Bozak, Finn, Colborne + 2nd for Roberto?

I believe that's fair, IMO.
Replace Finn with either Blacker/Franson/Holzer and I'm in.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:15 PM
  #919
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Are you a Canucks' or Leafs' fan? How exactly does your proposed return make Vancouver (in any way) a better team? Actually, it makes Vancouver worse.
It doesnt, you are correct.

It does however give Vancouver assets that can be flipped for more immediate help however.

Ie move a guy like Schroeder for someone like Brendan Morrow at the deadline without destroying organizational depth.

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12-11-2012, 07:18 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Why do Vancouver fans think that Luongo is the only answer Toronto has? I'll tell ya. You recognize that the Leafs could be in the market for a goalie and you're all trying to talk up Luongo even though you all know you're screwed cause your stuck with him and his stupid contract. Go ahead, keep him. I give it a year, than you'll all be calling for both his head and MG's head. Luongo will become your scapegoat and MG, you'll curse his name for offer such a monumental mistake.
Love it. Oh he's so great because he brought us to within one game of the cup, multiple vezina nominations etc etc etc. But for some reason he crumbles under the pressure of the big game. Leaf fans will be asking for BB's head and luongos head if he ends up in TO. What's the point of making the playoffs just to have this guy fold and to give up what van city fans think the return is for luongo is a pipe dream.

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12-11-2012, 07:23 PM
  #921
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Honestly, if Burke traded three firsts for Luongo and Luongo improved your teams competitiveness to the point where you could attract a Getzlaf/Roy/Rebeiro and re-sign Phaneuf wouldn't you consider that a coup?

That's the way a buddy of mine who's a Leaf fan sees it. He thinks without a major upgrade in goal that you will be CBJ in a couple years.
but he win't trade 3 1sts that simply won't happen

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12-11-2012, 07:49 PM
  #922
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Love it. Oh he's so great because he brought us to within one game of the cup, multiple vezina nominations etc etc etc. But for some reason he crumbles under the pressure of the big game. Leaf fans will be asking for BB's head and luongos head if he ends up in TO. What's the point of making the playoffs just to have this guy fold and to give up what van city fans think the return is for luongo is a pipe dream.
Im not sure if this is a serious post or not...

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12-11-2012, 07:50 PM
  #923
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I wonder how much value Lu would have if he actually won the Vezina in '11 instead of timmy thomas.

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12-11-2012, 08:02 PM
  #924
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Love it. Oh he's so great because he brought us to within one game of the cup, multiple vezina nominations etc etc etc. But for some reason he crumbles under the pressure of the big game. Leaf fans will be asking for BB's head and luongos head if he ends up in TO. What's the point of making the playoffs just to have this guy fold and to give up what van city fans think the return is for luongo is a pipe dream.
Allows Reimer to develop. Luongo is not our goalie for the future. He is a stop gap that allows Leafs to get into playoffs, while developing Reimer to eventually take over the spot.

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12-11-2012, 08:24 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Honestly, if Burke traded three firsts for Luongo and Luongo improved your teams competitiveness to the point where you could attract a Getzlaf/Roy/Rebeiro and re-sign Phaneuf wouldn't you consider that a coup?

That's the way a buddy of mine who's a Leaf fan sees it. He thinks without a major upgrade in goal that you will be CBJ in a couple years.
Trading first round picks is an easy way to ensure you're at the bottom of the standings in four to five years again. Your buddy is very short-sighted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Very unlikely Frattin develops into this level player IMO. There are very few players that consistently score 25 goals...

Wouldn't be surprised if he develops into a slightly inferior David Booth. Both players have very similar strengths and weaknesses. Consistent 15-15 guy is more realistic IMO.
Matt Frattin has the work ethic to go along with his natural skills to be a consistent 25 goal guy in the NHL. I've been watching him closely at Marlies games and he has a knack of going to the right offensive lanes at the right time. His shot is lethal and his hockey IQ is great as well. If I had to compare him to someone, it would be a better skating Michael Ryder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
This is the first time I think you and I can say this.

IMO I feel this is close. I may not like Bozak, but I feel Gillis does, and wants him. As pointed out, Finn would be like a downgrade on Gardiner, so I can see him also coming back. The only piece I would want to change is Colbourne, and depending how he changes depends on the pick at the end. For instance:

Bozak
Finn
Frattin
3rd?

Vs
Bozak
Finn
Ashton/Biggs
2nd

But that is just what I think
I can't see Brian Burke letting go of any NHL ready prospects like Nazem Kadri or Matt Frattin. I also can't see him parting with guys like Tyler Biggs who he drafted and fits the mold of the team he is trying to build.

So no Matt Frattin or Tyler Biggs.

Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn (begrudgingly, I must admit), Carter Ashton + 2nd.

I believe that's more than fair.

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