HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Rochester Americans / Minors Thread '12-'13 Ed.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-11-2012, 03:52 PM
  #501
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
I'm not sure where you're going with that. Are you saying Gage is the reason? Because the last time the Amerks were remotely competitive was when he had a say.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 03:58 PM
  #502
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
I'm not sure where you're going with that. Are you saying Gage is the reason? Because the last time the Amerks were remotely competitive was when he had a say.
You said:

Quote:
Regier has been the GM of the Amerks for many season dating back to 1997. Is it any coincidence that the Amerks last won the Calder Cup in 1996?
That is patently false. Jody Gage was assistant GM right after his retirement, and was made GM in 1996. He remained the GM until after the 2009 season.

Darcy Regier was not made GM of the Amerks until 2011, after Pegula completed the purchase.

You can rightly criticize any player personnel move since June 2011 on Regier. But your statement is clearly false.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 03:59 PM
  #503
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
You said:



That is patently false. Jody Gage was assistant GM right after his retirement, and was made GM in 1996. He remained the GM until after the 2009 season.

Darcy Regier was not made GM of the Amerks until 2011, after Pegula completed the purchase.

You can rightly criticize any player personnel move since June 2011 on Regier. But your statement is clearly false.
You're going by titles only. Don't kid yourself, Regier compiled 90% of every Amerks team in that time period.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 04:09 PM
  #504
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
You're going by titles only. Don't kid yourself, Regier compiled 90% of every Amerks team in that time period.
So let me get this straight. You're saying :

- Darcy Regier was the puppet master of 90% of Amerks rosters since 1997.
- Jody Gage would be a better GM today, even though you assert that Regier was calling the shots, and Donner was the one actually signing guys.

Your verbal gymnastics on blaming Regier are pretty impressive. He could be responsible for the Panthers years too at this rate.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #505
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
So let me get this straight. You're saying :

- Darcy Regier was the puppet master of 90% of Amerks rosters since 1997.
- Jody Gage would be a better GM today, even though you assert that Regier was calling the shots, and Donner was the one actually signing guys.

Your verbal gymnastics on blaming Regier are pretty impressive. He could be responsible for the Panthers years too at this rate.
My statements make perfect sense. I apologize if you can't follow along. As with today's previous argument, it's simple stuff that's just not getting through and I'm tired of having to explain things multiple times.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 05:03 PM
  #506
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
My statements make perfect sense. I apologize if you can't follow along. As with today's previous argument, it's simple stuff that's just not getting through and I'm tired of having to explain things multiple times.
I follow along just fine. It's not my fault that you're contradicting yourself and making statements that are easily proven false.

Take care.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 05:47 PM
  #507
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 31,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Regier has been the GM of the Amerks for many season dating back to 1997. Is it any coincidence that the Amerks last won the Calder Cup in 1996?

But his tenure is hard to judge since the late 90's and early 2000's Donner was still signing his own players.


Agreed here. Devine could be just as much of a problem. I think a solution could be putting Jody Gage back in charge.
That would only help if he is given the latitude to bring in players. Or am I misreading your point. I happen to agree its a bit odd to not try and get a full compliment of 12 forwards.

joshjull is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 08:10 PM
  #508
Buffalo87
thehosers dot com
 
Buffalo87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rochester
Posts: 7,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithLGA View Post
And the bold part is being mediocre and a poorly run hockey team. There's no excuses for Tropp not being replaced when he went out the first game of the season.
If the expectation is for the GM to bring somebody in for every injury suffered, you're simply living in a fantasy land.

Buffalo87 is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:07 PM
  #509
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I follow along just fine. It's not my fault that you're contradicting yourself and making statements that are easily proven false.

Take care.
There's been no contradiction whatsoever and the point was quite clear.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #510
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
If the expectation is for the GM to bring somebody in for every injury suffered, you're simply living in a fantasy land.
No one had ever said that, so why yourself and others keep saying it is puzzling. However Tropp is an entirely different situation.

You bring in a replacement when your best winger goes down like Tropp. There's nothing you or anyone else can say that'll make me think otherwise. Tropp is too much of a piece of this team to just write off on day 1. You may not bring in someone as good, but make the effort.

As for all the other injuries, all I ask is you make sure you have 12 forwards and 6 defense every night. They couldn't even do that. That's when replacements are necessary.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #511
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
There's been no contradiction whatsoever and the point was quite clear.
You said Darcy Regier was the GM of the Amerks from 1997 on.

The actual GM was Mr Amerk Jody Gage. (1996 - 2009).

You can't even get this basic fact correct.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:19 PM
  #512
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
You said Darcy Regier was the GM of the Amerks from 1997 on.

The actual GM was Mr Amerk Jody Gage. (1996 - 2009).

You can't even get this basic fact correct.
You're going by title on paper, which has nothing to do with reality. Gage was "GM" because the Amerks were locally owned and affiliated with the Sabres. It was more of a symbolic role and title. His main duties were finding ECHL call ups.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #513
Buffalo87
thehosers dot com
 
Buffalo87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rochester
Posts: 7,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
No one had ever said that, so why yourself and others keep saying it is puzzling. However Tropp is an entirely different situation.

You bring in a replacement when your best winger goes down like Tropp. There's nothing you or anyone else can say that'll make me think otherwise. Tropp is too much of a piece of this team to just write off on day 1. You may not bring in someone as good, but make the effort.

As for all the other injuries, all I ask is you make sure you have 12 forwards and 6 defense every night. They couldn't even do that. That's when replacements are necessary.
I will never argue that point nor have I argued that point at all. You are 100% correct.

The only point I've taken issue with is the idea that you need to replace a guy who has gone down for the season. Unless that guy is your goalie, you don't need to go out and replace him. Obviously you're very set in your belief that he needs to be replaced and I strongly disagree. Would it be nice if they brought someone in to replace him? Sure. Should it be an expectation? Absolutely not.

Buffalo87 is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:27 PM
  #514
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
I will never argue that point nor have I argued that point at all. You are 100% correct.

The only point I've taken issue with is the idea that you need to replace a guy who has gone down for the season. Unless that guy is your goalie, you don't need to go out and replace him. Obviously you're very set in your belief that he needs to be replaced and I strongly disagree. Would it be nice if they brought someone in to replace him? Sure. Should it be an expectation? Absolutely not.
It depends on the player. If it were Rick Schofield, you move on. Same with Tarnasky or Max Legault. But when you go into the season depending on the scoring and ability of Tropp and he goes down on day 1, do something about it. That's what championship and successful organizations do. I guess since we're all fans of Buffalo teams, we're not used to it. And especially when there were so many free agents still out there for the taking.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
  #515
Woodhouse
Global Moderator
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,488
vCash: 500
I'd say that Flynn is the top-6 replacement for Tropp, but I'd argue that his initial depth role was never filled by a replacement, which in turn led to the recent forward problems once the injury bug tested our depth. Just one more forward in the rotation and you're not dressing 7-8 D for five games.

Woodhouse is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:45 PM
  #516
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
I'd say that Flynn is the top-6 replacement for Tropp, but I'd argue that his initial depth role was never filled by a replacement, which in turn led to the recent forward problems once the injury bug tested our depth. Just one more forward in the rotation and you're not dressing 7-8 D for five games.
He's been good for sure. Tropp does so much more overall, but you bring up a good point. But that's all in hindsight. Now they're obviously not going to do anything because of Flynn's emergence. But no one knew that at the time.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #517
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
You're going by title on paper, which has nothing to do with reality. Gage was "GM" because the Amerks were locally owned and affiliated with the Sabres. It was more of a symbolic role and title. His main duties were finding ECHL call ups.
So then if I follow you, you're saying :

- Gage gets the Amerks GM job in the summer of 1996. 96-97, Amerks win the division, lose in the 2nd round.
- Regier is hired as the Sabres GM in the summer of 1997. He unofficially takes over as the Amerks GM, and Jody Gage doesn't really do anything. (Your words here.)

You assert that this is when the Amerks 'stopped being competitive'. Again, your words.

97-98 5th
98-99 1st, lost Calder Cup Finals
99-00 1st, lost Calder Cup Finals
00-01 1st, lost semis
01-02 2nd, lost qualifier
02-03 2nd, lost qualifier
03-04 3rd, lost conference finals
04-05 1st, lost division finals
- Dual Affiliation Starts
05-06 5th
06-07 2nd, lost semi-finals
07-08 7th
- Dual Affiliation Ends, Panthers take over
08-09 7th
09-10 2nd, lost semi-finals
10-11 7th
- Panthers Out, Sabres In
11-12 2nd, lost quarterfinals

So, let's review. During the seasons that the Sabres were the sole affiliate, the Amerks missed the playoffs only once, in 97-98. They made 3 deep runs to the Calder Cup and conference finals, and good number of early round exits.

Under the dual affiliation and Panthers years, they only made the playoffs twice, finishing dead last the other 4 years.

What's the common factor in those 6 really bad years?

Steve Donner's financial problems. He was out in 2008, but he jammed the franchise something hard, and put Styers behind the 8 ball.

So, tell me again how Darcy Regier, the GM of Oz behind the curtain, has turned the Amerks into a 'non-competitive team'.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 10:09 PM
  #518
Woodhouse
Global Moderator
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
He's been good for sure. Tropp does so much more overall, but you bring up a good point. But that's all in hindsight. Now they're obviously not going to do anything because of Flynn's emergence. But no one knew that at the time.
Yeah, man did Tropp look poised for a good season in that opener, sigh, but the Amerks were only one game into the season at the time of his injury and needed to take time to evaluate their new rookie talent (aka promoting from within) before making a roster decision, no? That's at least how I'd expect them to go forward and sure enough, someone from within stepped up.

Woodhouse is offline  
Old
12-11-2012, 10:16 PM
  #519
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
So then if I follow you, you're saying :

- Gage gets the Amerks GM job in the summer of 1996. 96-97, Amerks win the division, lose in the 2nd round.
- Regier is hired as the Sabres GM in the summer of 1997. He unofficially takes over as the Amerks GM, and Jody Gage doesn't really do anything. (Your words here.)

You assert that this is when the Amerks 'stopped being competitive'. Again, your words.



So, let's review. During the seasons that the Sabres were the sole affiliate, the Amerks missed the playoffs only once, in 97-98. They made 3 deep runs to the Calder Cup and conference finals, and good number of early round exits.

Under the dual affiliation and Panthers years, they only made the playoffs twice, finishing dead last the other 4 years.

What's the common factor in those 6 really bad years?

Steve Donner's financial problems. He was out in 2008, but he jammed the franchise something hard, and put Styers behind the 8 ball.

So, tell me again how Darcy Regier, the GM of Oz behind the curtain, has turned the Amerks into a 'non-competitive team'.
You want to talk about a jumbled mess of a post.

This all started when someone asked why the same gripes get said throughout 3 ownership groups, and I said the common denominator and reason is/was Regier. Which it has been. You responded that he's been GM for only one season, which is so false that it's hard to believe you actually typed it out. Then you responded with some picture of Jody Gage and how he was the Amerks GM all of those years.

Then you post some jumbled mess, inserting words into my mouth again (me saying the Amerks stopped being competitive when Regier took over, for example).

The whole original point, again, was the common factor during these years was Regier. Had nothing to do with Gage or the Panthers or the other tangents you went off on.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-11-2012, 10:17 PM
  #520
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Yeah, man did Tropp look poised for a good season in that opener, sigh, but the Amerks were only one game into the season at the time of his injury and needed to take time to evaluate their new rookie talent (aka promoting from within) before making a roster decision, no? That's at least how I'd expect them to go forward and sure enough, someone from within stepped up.
That's not how I look at it. But I do see the point of view, even though I disagree with it.

sabrefan27 is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 05:31 AM
  #521
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
You want to talk about a jumbled mess of a post.

This all started when someone asked why the same gripes get said throughout 3 ownership groups, and I said the common denominator and reason is/was Regier. Which it has been. You responded that he's been GM for only one season, which is so false that it's hard to believe you actually typed it out. Then you responded with some picture of Jody Gage and how he was the Amerks GM all of those years.

Then you post some jumbled mess, inserting words into my mouth again (me saying the Amerks stopped being competitive when Regier took over, for example).

The whole original point, again, was the common factor during these years was Regier. Had nothing to do with Gage or the Panthers or the other tangents you went off on.
I refuse to continue to engage with someone who perpetuates this false notion that Jody Gage was only a figurehead GM with no power for 13 seasons. It's completely false.

Go Amerks.

SackTastic is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 05:34 AM
  #522
Mergus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 188
vCash: 500
Kind of disappointing to see Foligno's production drop off in the AHL. The man hasn't potted one in over a month. I know he isn't a goal scorer, but with his fast start, I was kind of hoping he'd keep it up.

Anyone that has been watching the games, has he at least been physical and been playing good puck possession hockey?

Mergus is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 06:47 AM
  #523
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 16,604
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergus View Post
Kind of disappointing to see Foligno's production drop off in the AHL. The man hasn't potted one in over a month. I know he isn't a goal scorer, but with his fast start, I was kind of hoping he'd keep it up.

Anyone that has been watching the games, has he at least been physical and been playing good puck possession hockey?
Whenever I watch, anyways, his line seems to be getting a lot of offensive pressure. And I'm not quite sure what you're expecting from a guy with 21 pts in 22 games. Sure, I'd like to see him score more goals--though I don't think he'll be anything more than a 15-20 goal guy in the NHL--but he's hitting the scoresheet, and contributing in other ways, too.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 07:52 AM
  #524
UncleBenny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
Foligno has missed a ton of chances in the past few weeks, could easily have 4-5 more goals right now. Just needs to get out of the funk he's in. Still throws the body around when he needs to and gets in guys faces, just hasn't been on the score sheet as much as he probably could be.

Man did he take a brutally dumb penalty at the start of the game last night though. If the Heat scored on that PP it could have been game over.

UncleBenny is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 08:47 AM
  #525
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I refuse to continue to engage with someone who perpetuates this false notion that Jody Gage was only a figurehead GM with no power for 13 seasons. It's completely false.

Go Amerks.
No, it isn't false. Gage had very limited duties that mostly involved scouting the ECHL. I never said he had no power at all. I was pretty clear on that earlier. The only year he had free reign to sign who he wanted was in 2009-2010 when he and Ted Nolan had full control to sign the veterans.

He signed some ECHL/AHL tweeners in the early 2000's (I assume it was him and not the Sabres) but they had no impact on the team.


Last edited by sabrefan27: 12-12-2012 at 08:53 AM.
sabrefan27 is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.