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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:10 PM
  #751
OthmarAmmann
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Just seems counter productive to their goal of reducing their financing cost is all I'm saying.

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12-11-2012, 06:37 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
They aren't required to release them before the statutory deadline just because they are doing an offering. Also, you have to factor in the fact that since just discovered all kinds of irregularities the release will take longer this time around.
Well ya, thats what I mean, what Im saying. Take it to limit of the stat deadline, meanwhile re-negotiate re-financing with the completed financials, hopefully get that secured, then release the documents and present it all as a fait au compli' to the incoming Council & Mayor, the Electorate. The unelected Civil Servants are the ones driving the bus. I dont know about you or others posting here, but I have a real problem with that concept.

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12-11-2012, 08:13 PM
  #753
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Is Westgate falling apart since the Coyotes haven't played a game this season and will not be playing any games this month?

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:56 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well ya, thats what I mean, what Im saying. Take it to limit of the stat deadline, meanwhile re-negotiate re-financing with the completed financials, hopefully get that secured, then release the documents and present it all as a fait au compli' to the incoming Council & Mayor, the Electorate. The unelected Civil Servants are the ones driving the bus. I dont know about you or others posting here, but I have a real problem with that concept.
Well in any city there are professionals who aren't elected officials who are theoretically trained in their professional area who are the ones driving the bus on these sort of issues. I honestly couldn't find what the deadline is in Arizona but I am not sure how much you could do to accelerate it especially since the outside audit firm probably has a set schedule when they are going to look at Glendale.

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12-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #755
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Did Greg Jamison do an interview with a local radio station today? I saw a reference to it on Facebook but I haven't been able to nail it down yet.

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12-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #756
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azsportstalk.com

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well ya, thats what I mean, what Im saying. Take it to limit of the stat deadline, meanwhile re-negotiate re-financing with the completed financials, hopefully get that secured, then release the documents and present it all as a fait au compli' to the incoming Council & Mayor, the Electorate. The unelected Civil Servants are the ones driving the bus. I dont know about you or others posting here, but I have a real problem with that concept.
I think that's how all government works. Sort of like, Radar from M A S H, sign here colonel...

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12-11-2012, 09:45 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Did Greg Jamison do an interview with a local radio station today? I saw a reference to it on Facebook but I haven't been able to nail it down yet.
http://www.azsportstalk.com/
Top item for now.

Doesn't sound like he wants them....

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:24 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by wildthing202 View Post
http://www.azsportstalk.com/
Top item for now.

Doesn't sound like he wants them....
Am I the only one here having a weird/uneasy feeling hearing GJ answer questions about a hockey team he doesn't own? I understand he's the front runner of an (undisclosed) group that's been planning on buying the team (for what 18months), but something, to me, isn't right.

Before putting road runners on the menu, maybe this Coyote should first catch it first.

But again, maybe it's just me.

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12-11-2012, 10:27 PM
  #760
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Here's an idea. Move the Coyotes for good. Bring in an AHL team call them the Arizona Coyotes (same Jersey and all), drop ticket prices by $10.

Bet the attendance rises. Further I bet that the fans don't know the difference in calibre except teams like the IceCaps and Wolves are coming to town instead of Red Wings and Jets... Hockey is hockey to a true hockey market, which is why Winnipeg supported their Manitoba Moose (stupid name I know).

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12-11-2012, 10:39 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
I think that's how all government works. Sort of like, Radar from M A S H, sign here colonel...
Interesting analogy. Radar with his "incoming", hearing the choppers before anyone else.... now my turn according to your theory; Beasley & Tindall et al posses this same talent, 6th sense, only instead of the warm & cuddly Radar O'Reilly, these guys are full-on Ray Liotta as Henry Hill in Goodfellas'. Freaking because they too hear & see the choppers only instead of bringing in the wounded, these things are piloted by the FBI, the frikin US Justice Department and the Arizona State Attorneys Offices...

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12-11-2012, 10:49 PM
  #762
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Apparently on Twitter roc and manuch said "Gotta say, stomach turning. Was not convinced. You?" then backtracked later.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:55 PM
  #763
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Jamsion;

"I feel good for the council members who, err for all the council members (especially the ones voted out of office because of this deal)"

"I understand their having some financial difficulties in Glendale (but who gives a *****)"

"sure there are differences between San Jose and Phoenix, you actually have people buying tickets in San Jose"

"If it all comes together (if there is a season we will play in Phoenix, if there isn't a season, it was fun..au revoir)"

After wasting almost 23 minutes listening to gramps with the two sports bozo's, the conclusion is gramps Jamison would make a perfect politician!


Last edited by sipowicz: 12-11-2012 at 11:13 PM.
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Old
12-11-2012, 10:59 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
... Hockey is hockey to a true hockey market, which is why Winnipeg supported their Manitoba Moose (stupid name I know).
Tell that to the all the empty seats at Copps Coliseum, the Ricoh Centre in Toronto and the Abbotsford Entertainment & Sports Complex in BC. You get into large Canadian markets like Hamilton, Toronto & the Lower Mainland the AHL simply doesnt cut it. People want steak. Let alone a market like Phoenix which has been living on a steady diet of it, albeit under-done for the past 17yrs. Their not going to go for that. Suicide to put an AHL franchise in that market after all thats gone down.

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12-11-2012, 11:06 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Tell that to the all the empty seats at Copps Coliseum, the Ricoh Centre in Toronto and the Abbotsford Entertainment & Sports Complex in BC. You get into large Canadian markets like Hamilton, Toronto & the Lower Mainland the AHL simply doesnt cut it. People want steak. Let alone a market like Phoenix which has been living on a steady diet of it, albeit under-done for the past 17yrs. Their not going to go for that. Suicide to put an AHL franchise in that market after all thats gone down.
Then maybe they should put arena football, or whatever they like over there. There is a good chance t will do better then the NHL and it wont bankcrupt their city...

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:08 PM
  #766
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Then maybe they should put arena football, or whatever they like over there. There is a good chance t will do better then the NHL and it wont bankcrupt their city...
Absolutely Pat. And they should be looking at doing that regardless of
whether or not Jamison ever does get this deal closed. Diversification.
I rather suspect that this may be part of his overall plan, but he's mute.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:12 PM
  #767
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Absolutely Pat. And they should be looking at doing that regardless of
whether or not Jamison ever does get this deal closed. Diversification.
I rather suspect that this may be part of his overall plan, but he's mute.
Problem is the entertainment money
is not limitless... they cant do everything, that's when sound judgement is required, which Glendale city government as none...


Last edited by Undertakerqc: 12-11-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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Old
12-11-2012, 11:12 PM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Here's an idea. Move the Coyotes for good. Bring in an AHL team call them the Arizona Coyotes (same Jersey and all), drop ticket prices by $10.

Bet the attendance rises. Further I bet that the fans don't know the difference in calibre except teams like the IceCaps and Wolves are coming to town instead of Red Wings and Jets... Hockey is hockey to a true hockey market, which is why Winnipeg supported their Manitoba Moose (stupid name I know).
I am by no means a supporter of what the CoG is doing right now, and I'm a proud Pegger, but this is off base in terms of your point here:

1) The core fan base of the Coyotes, those who keep supporting the team during all the turmoil, those STHs, are very likely more than knowledgeable about hockey enough to know there will be a difference between the NHL and AHL.

2) I love hockey. I enjoyed the Moose (not as much as ABD though ) but I never felt anything remotely similar to the AHL club as I did (and currently do) with the Jets. The Jets are the buzz of the town, the buzz of the country, very hugely supported by and large (the Jets logo is more common than the Canadian flag in Winnipeg) but the Moose were nothing like that. Collectively, the city didn't care about the moose the same way it does with the Jets.

Not even close.

Sure Manitoba was among the tops in AHL attendance with high (relative) ticket prices, but bottom in collective mindshare. It simply wasn't the NHL. How do you think hockey fans would have felt if our AHL team was known as the Winnipeg Jets?

3) I think the whole idea of AHL hockey in AZ is both good and bad as an idea; good in the sense that it is seemingly much more plausible from hypothetical financial sanity that the NHL club. But bad because if you're a Yotes fan, it's a slap in the face. Conversely, If you're opposed to the Yotes existence in AZ, its destined to be a bigger failure since "no one supports the coyotes"

I don't see what the reasoning really is behind it other than belittling sentiments.

It's fine from a potential tenant replacement perspective, but to give the the connotations of "hey it will do better than the NHL duh they're an AHL market" is off base. It might even do worse since there may be even less interest for it, just like pretty much any other city with an AHL club not named Hershey. AHL is great hockey. I was happy and felt fortunate we had the Moose. I'm not anti-AHL. But to suggest fans in AZ wont know the difference or attendance would rise; do you honestly think it will perform any better? Would it even be a good replacement from a benefit-to-Glendale and Jobing.com perspective? Maybe, maybe not.

But the way you said it isn't right man. If you're a jets fan, you know what relocation bs feels like.

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:18 PM
  #769
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Then maybe they should put arena football, or whatever they like over there. There is a good chance t will do better then the NHL and it wont bankcrupt their city...
Phoenix actually already has arena football. But they play out of the US Airways Arena in downtown Phoenix.

Arizona Rattlers

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #770
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Tell that to the all the empty seats at Copps Coliseum, the Ricoh Centre in Toronto and the Abbotsford Entertainment & Sports Complex in BC. You get into large Canadian markets like Hamilton, Toronto & the Lower Mainland the AHL simply doesnt cut it. People want steak. Let alone a market like Phoenix which has been living on a steady diet of it, albeit under-done for the past 17yrs. Their not going to go for that. Suicide to put an AHL franchise in that market after all thats gone down.
You speak the truth but Hamilton is among the top teams in the league: Only 3 teams have averaged more fans than them this season.

http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance

(don't know why, but google said that link was unsafe)

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:23 PM
  #771
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For Ellman it was never about the hockey, it was about bringing people to Westgate. He and others managed to convince the COG that if you have a world-class football stadium, you might as well have an 18000 seat arena to match and got them to pay for it.

And they've still falling for it.
Except the arena and Westgate came before the football stadium.

But you were right about where Ellman's priorities were.

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12-11-2012, 11:27 PM
  #772
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It wasn't like nobody saw the cliff looming ahead. That was a huge bubble, anyone with any perspective knew it was going to burst. And it did. Big time.

Another issue here, though, was investing all this in sports. I know there is this perception out there that pro teams make money for communities, have big spin offs, etc., but there is no proof for this whatsoever. Taking on massive amounts of debt for stuff like this is sheer insanity. Again, not like people out there weren't aware of pro sports arenas being money pits. If people in Winnipeg hadn't known this in 1994-1995, the Jets would never have left in the first place.

Glendale is a very, very special place.
You're right.... huge bubble..... and nobody in Phoenix Metro really saw it coming.

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12-11-2012, 11:29 PM
  #773
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I get the insults and whatever happened via Twitter, but Clark played up a Hispanic conspiracy as part of her campaign platform. Don't think anyone insulting her through social media stooped that low...
One paragraph in one small campaign brochure isn't what I would call "playing it up". But if that's how you feel so be it.

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12-11-2012, 11:41 PM
  #774
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Apparently on Twitter roc and manuch said "Gotta say, stomach turning. Was not convinced. You?" then backtracked later.
Roc was concerned about Jamison's answer to the question about any of his investors being "hockey" people. Jamison responded "yes and no". Roc was trying to get Jamison to leak some clues as to who's in his investor group and he didn't bite.

Jamison did on and explained it's about putting the right people in the right position..... and the role of ownership is to support that front line management. He seems to be fine with the on-ice side of the franchise right now.

EDIT: I was in error above. Roc did clarify later what he was referring to in that tweet. It was about the lockout.


Last edited by TheLegend: 12-12-2012 at 01:10 AM.
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Old
12-12-2012, 12:04 AM
  #775
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He seems to be fine with the on-ice side of the franchise right now.
And mentioned he "hoped to close by mid-January".... also of note; Glendales floating $230M+
in tax relief Bonds Thursday backed by its excise tax, re-structuring debt on Camelback, the Arena etc.

http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/121_...1046656-1.html

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