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Old
12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #101
DisneyDucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
High end young players like Seguin are worth far more than players like Getzlaf factoring in his UFA status. Would you trade Cam Fowler for a player like Getzlaf?

Also, what makes you think any team would trade their prized young player (RNH, Seguin, Hall, etc) for someone who A. is coming off a bad season and B. has already reached UFA status, and will likely make more money than any of the youngins?

Trade makes no sense for either team.
1. Yes, if I would be sure he signed a new contract of course.

2. Im not really arguing against the value of an unsigned Getzlaf. Im more arguing that getzlaf is a better then seguin right NOW. And I totally agree that this trade makes no sense for either team which I have stated earlier in this thread.

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12-11-2012, 01:22 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You're 'assuming' Getzlaf just had a down season & will rebound,, just as I'm assuming that Seguin will continue to improve on his stats he just put up as a 19yr old (29g 38a 67pts)
Four straight seasons of over a PPG tends to make a pretty strong statement regarding Getzlaf's chances here.

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& he perhaps is already on his way there. He already at age 19 has surpassed Getzlafs career high goals scored in a season.

Thus I dont think it's far fetched to suggest that he may one day soon be at least as good as Getzlaf, perhaps better. He's 7yrs younger, is under contract for the next 7yrs. Getzlaf after this season (?) will be a 28yr old UFA, so yes IMO Seguin is the most valuable asset in this proposed deal.
Ryan Getzlaf's career high in goals is 25. Don't make it sound like some big accomplishment. You're trying to, what? Punish Getzlaf because he isn't an older version of Seguin? That's a laugh. Getzlaf is a passer. An elite passer at that. Any other season, and Getzlaf basically matches Seguin's offensive totals with just his assists.


Last edited by Sojourn: 12-11-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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12-11-2012, 01:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Four straight seasons of over a PPG tends to make a pretty strong statement regarding Getzlaf's chances here.



Ryan Getzlaf's career high in goals is 25. Don't make it sound like some big accomplishment. You're trying to, what? Punish Getzlaf because he isn't an older version of Seguin? That's a laugh. Getzlaf is a passer. An elite passer at that. Any other season, and Getzlaf basically matches Seguin's offensive totals with just his assists.
At age 19 Getzlaf was playing for the Portland Pirates.

At age 20 Getzlaf scored 39pts in his rookie season with the Ducks.

At age 21 Getzlaf scored 25g 33a 58pts

At age 22 Getzlaf reached "PPG" status, notching 24g 58a 82pts.


I dont think it's far fetched to think Seguin within the next 3 seasons will reach "PPG" status. My point is NOT that Seguin is better than Getzlaf now, it's that he's on his way to soon becoming a similar player or perhaps better. And when considering age & contract status, Seguin IMO becomes more valuable.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:54 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
At age 19 Getzlaf was playing for the Portland Pirates.

At age 20 Getzlaf scored 39pts in his rookie season with the Ducks.

At age 21 Getzlaf scored 25g 33a 58pts

At age 22 Getzlaf reached "PPG" status, notching 24g 58a 82pts.


I dont think it's far fetched to think Seguin within the next 3 seasons will reach "PPG" status. My point is NOT that Seguin is better than Getzlaf now, it's that he's on his way to soon becoming a similar player or perhaps better. And when considering age & contract status, Seguin IMO becomes more valuable.
Different players develop at different rates. You are, yet again, trying to punish Getzlaf because he isn't Seguin. Big players like Getzlaf typically take longer to develop. Not to mention, Getzlaf's first NHL eligible season was a locked out season. What was he supposed to do about that?

Actually, you have implied, a number of times now, that Seguin is comparable to Getzlaf right now. You've flat out claimed he out-scored Getzlaf, despite the fact it took the worst season of Getzlaf's career to do it. You might want to get your arguments straight. I've never said Getzlaf had more value. I've said he's the better player, and he is.

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12-11-2012, 04:11 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
At age 19 Getzlaf was playing for the Portland Pirates.

At age 20 Getzlaf scored 39pts in his rookie season with the Ducks.

At age 21 Getzlaf scored 25g 33a 58pts

At age 22 Getzlaf reached "PPG" status, notching 24g 58a 82pts.


I dont think it's far fetched to think Seguin within the next 3 seasons will reach "PPG" status. My point is NOT that Seguin is better than Getzlaf now, it's that he's on his way to soon becoming a similar player or perhaps better. And when considering age & contract status, Seguin IMO becomes more valuable.
Calgary Hitmen actually. And he would have been in the NHL if the season wasn't cancelled.

And as Sojourn said, different players develop at different rates. Look at the Sedins for example. They didn't hit PPG levels until the were around 26 years old. I think Seguin will be a great player but I don't know that he will ever eclipse Getzlafs 08-09 numbers.

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Old
12-11-2012, 04:37 PM
  #106
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Love all 4 players here but...............pass!

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:33 PM
  #107
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Love all 4 players here but...............pass!
Agreed.

Seguin and Getzlaf are pretty much a wash, I'll stay with Seguin because he's signed and younger.

I really love Ryan, he would be a PERFECT fit for this team, but we simply can't trade a defenseman without getting a better one back. It's a really ballsy trade, Chiarelli isn't into that.

If we wanted to win now this would be a good trade. But with Seguin and Hamilton, plus the rest of the team, we have the potential to win now and later. So no thanks, a polite hang-up.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:35 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
Seguin or Getzlaf, which one is on Team Canada 2014.... I know which one I think is more likely..
If Getzlaf has normal Getzlaf seasons, it's pretty obviously him

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12-12-2012, 01:36 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
That "one day" was last season, where Seguin outscored Getzlaf and Ryan

And we can most likely expect it an annual occurence
Yes that one day was a miserable season, while Seguin had his best, clearly at 27 years old Ryan Getzlaf will never recover, 4 straight ppg seasons is nothing to scoff at, which you apparently do

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12-12-2012, 01:38 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
At age 19 Getzlaf was playing for the Portland Pirates.

At age 20 Getzlaf scored 39pts in his rookie season with the Ducks.

At age 21 Getzlaf scored 25g 33a 58pts

At age 22 Getzlaf reached "PPG" status, notching 24g 58a 82pts.


I dont think it's far fetched to think Seguin within the next 3 seasons will reach "PPG" status. My point is NOT that Seguin is better than Getzlaf now, it's that he's on his way to soon becoming a similar player or perhaps better. And when considering age & contract status, Seguin IMO becomes more valuable.
at 21 Getzlaf was the best forward in the playoffs on a cup winning team by the way

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Old
12-12-2012, 10:25 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Yes that one day was a miserable season, while Seguin had his best, clearly at 27 years old Ryan Getzlaf will never recover, 4 straight ppg seasons is nothing to scoff at, which you apparently do
Seguin had his "best" season as a 19 year old, which just happened to be his only season of consistent top six ice time.

I think Getzlaf is better right now, but I wouldn't trade Seguin for Getzlaf, and woudlnt think twice about it.

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12-12-2012, 11:32 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
If Getzlaf has normal Getzlaf seasons, it's pretty obviously him
I'm not so sure. that's a pretty big "if". I can counter by saying "if" Seguin continues to progress at the rate he has shown then its pretty obvious it would be Seguin. I guess we can disagree and discuss again in about 13 months.

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12-12-2012, 12:30 PM
  #113
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An elite first line center and winger...

for a young albeit very talented top-six forward and a defenseman prospect?

I'm pretty sure we'll pass on this one.

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12-12-2012, 01:05 PM
  #114
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An elite first line center and winger...

for a young albeit very talented top-six forward and a defenseman prospect?

I'm pretty sure we'll pass on this one.
You forgot "UFA to be" in your description of Getzlaf...that's where this becomes an easy 'no' from Boston

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12-12-2012, 01:13 PM
  #115
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I assume this is all under the assumption they magically do away with the cap during these CBA discussions.

Makes no sense. And no anyway. Boston is a competitive team now capable of winning it all. No reason to give up their two best young players at this juncture.

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12-12-2012, 02:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You forgot "UFA to be" in your description of Getzlaf...that's where this becomes an easy 'no' from Boston
Which actually isn't nearly as relevant for Anaheim, since by all accounts he intends to re-sign.

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12-12-2012, 04:19 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Which actually isn't nearly as relevant for Anaheim, since by all accounts he intends to re-sign.
Said Dallas fans regarding Brad Richards
Said NJ fans regarding Parise
Said Nashville fans regarding Suter

You get my point

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12-12-2012, 04:21 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Said Dallas fans regarding Brad Richards
Said NJ fans regarding Parise
Said Nashville fans regarding Suter

You get my point
All thre have VERY different situation.

Franchise not stable with finances. Same with NJ. Suter is the one who wanted to shed the number 2.

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12-12-2012, 04:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
You forgot "UFA to be" in your description of Getzlaf...that's where this becomes an easy 'no' from Boston
Well we've established that there's no reason for either side to do it. We're just justifying our stance on it.

Let's assume Seguin IS the center you guys think he will be. That's good value then for our older captain who is in UFA.

By the way. It's almost a guarantee Getzlaf stays in Anaheim and I can really see him taking a hometown discount on his next contract. He hasn't left for Europe and he probably won't because he's at home with his newborn son and he's gonna take advantage of the time he has with his family. He's committed to southern California.

So we lose one top line center and fill it in with a younger maybe or maybe not better alternative. So one lineup hole is filled. Then we have to give up our pretty much guaranteed 30 goals yearly from the left wing in Bobby Ryan for Dougie Hamilton. That creates a hole at the top of our left wing that can only be filled by two unproven talents in Palmieri and Etem. Will they work out? Probably. But it's possible they don't. And either way, they're both smaller than Ryan so that changes up the make up of the Ducks roster.

I'm gonna assume that Hamilton won't be quite the phenom you guys are expecting, but still be one of the better young blue-liners in the league. He'd provide us with offense from the blueline and good physical play in the defensive zone. The thing is, with the blueline we have it's not like we can't afford NOT to have him
A Fowler-Sbisa pairing alone would bring us what Hamilton could and more. You could argue that matching Vatanen with Beauchemin or Lindholm will bring the same result. Would it be nice to add Hamilton? Of course, but not at the expense of guaranteed goals when our ability to replace them is unclear.

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12-12-2012, 05:14 PM
  #120
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Well we've established that there's no reason for either side to do it. We're just justifying our stance on it.

Let's assume Seguin IS the center you guys think he will be. That's good value then for our older captain who is in UFA.

By the way. It's almost a guarantee Getzlaf stays in Anaheim and I can really see him taking a hometown discount on his next contract. He hasn't left for Europe and he probably won't because he's at home with his newborn son and he's gonna take advantage of the time he has with his family. He's committed to southern California.

So we lose one top line center and fill it in with a younger maybe or maybe not better alternative. So one lineup hole is filled. Then we have to give up our pretty much guaranteed 30 goals yearly from the left wing in Bobby Ryan for Dougie Hamilton. That creates a hole at the top of our left wing that can only be filled by two unproven talents in Palmieri and Etem. Will they work out? Probably. But it's possible they don't. And either way, they're both smaller than Ryan so that changes up the make up of the Ducks roster.

I'm gonna assume that Hamilton won't be quite the phenom you guys are expecting, but still be one of the better young blue-liners in the league. He'd provide us with offense from the blueline and good physical play in the defensive zone. The thing is, with the blueline we have it's not like we can't afford NOT to have him
A Fowler-Sbisa pairing alone would bring us what Hamilton could and more. You could argue that matching Vatanen with Beauchemin or Lindholm will bring the same result. Would it be nice to add Hamilton? Of course, but not at the expense of guaranteed goals when our ability to replace them is unclear.
i think ducks pass here but i think you're underappreciating what Hamilton can bring. hes a stud imo. i'd love to have him on this team tbh. i see him being a solid potential #1 in the future. not a 1B

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12-12-2012, 06:23 PM
  #121
Sojourn
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Said Dallas fans regarding Brad Richards
Said NJ fans regarding Parise
Said Nashville fans regarding Suter

You get my point
That those three players were different circumstances? Because that's exactly what they were. I can understand why you might doubt Getzlaf would sign in Boston, but Anaheim doesn't have that concern. Not with Getzlaf. This is exactly why Anaheim would say no to this deal. If we were talking about Perry, I would probably agree that his future is uncertain, but Getzlaf is committed to the Ducks and vice versa, and he isn't in a situation like Suter where he's in the shadow of another.

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12-12-2012, 06:34 PM
  #122
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That those three players were different circumstances? Because that's exactly what they were. I can understand why you might doubt Getzlaf would sign in Boston, but Anaheim doesn't have that concern. Not with Getzlaf. This is exactly why Anaheim would say no to this deal. If we were talking about Perry, I would probably agree that his future is uncertain, but Getzlaf is committed to the Ducks and vice versa, and he isn't in a situation like Suter where he's in the shadow of another.
I guess you can see how Getzlaf's desire to re-sign with the Ducks and nowhere else kind of depreciates his value to every other team. Any team trading for him is trading for 1 year of him. Is one year of a 90 point player worth 10 years of a 60+ point player who hasn't even come close to hitting his prime yet? Not to me anyway.

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12-12-2012, 07:00 PM
  #123
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I guess you can see how Getzlaf's desire to re-sign with the Ducks and nowhere else kind of depreciates his value to every other team. Any team trading for him is trading for 1 year of him. Is one year of a 90 point player worth 10 years of a 60+ point player who hasn't even come close to hitting his prime yet? Not to me anyway.
Hey, I've said all along that I don't think either team would be interested. There is no denying that Getzlaf's contract status would be a turn-off for Boston, and I certainly don't think Boston has any interest in losing Hamilton and Seguin for a deal where the best player could shortly walk. At the same time, from Anaheim's perspective, they wouldn't be moving a soon-to-be UFA in Getzlaf, but their #1 center and captain who wants to spend his entire career with one team. The value of this deal just isn't the same for both teams.

I've never tried to convince anyone that Boston should, or would, take this deal.

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12-12-2012, 11:58 PM
  #124
KEEROLE Vatanen
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I'm not so sure. that's a pretty big "if". I can counter by saying "if" Seguin continues to progress at the rate he has shown then its pretty obvious it would be Seguin. I guess we can disagree and discuss again in about 13 months.
A normal Getzlaf season is a PPG+ physical center who can take over games, a normal Getzlaf season is a top 7 center in the league

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12-13-2012, 03:27 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I guess you can see how Getzlaf's desire to re-sign with the Ducks and nowhere else kind of depreciates his value to every other team. Any team trading for him is trading for 1 year of him. Is one year of a 90 point player worth 10 years of a 60+ point player who hasn't even come close to hitting his prime yet? Not to me anyway.
Lol his wanting to re-sign here wouldn't depreciate the value, it would almost guaranteed take the name off the table.

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