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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #226
kthsn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50MissionCap View Post
Would Vancouver loose all that much by keeping Luongo at his post for the rest of his contract?
Luongo/Schneider tandem is 15% of a 60M cap.

During the Luongo era we used to spend 13-17% and end up 3rd in the West. If we ran with the tandem again it would hurt our depth but we would still ice a very very good team.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:07 PM
  #227
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I would split it half and half with Schneider to ease him into a starting role.
Play till you lose system imo

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12-11-2012, 07:13 PM
  #228
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Play till you lose system imo
First one to allow 4 goals in a game gets traded.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:14 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Play till you lose system imo
Would rather do a variation on that, something like play until your Sv% is below .900. We've seen both Luongo and Schneider lose games where they put up a wall only to have the rest of the team not show up.

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Old
12-11-2012, 07:49 PM
  #230
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The sooner Lu leaves the better. Luongo is the type of player that needs to play a few games to get relaxed and in the zone. Having breaks all of the time (especially when he won't be classified as the starter) will make him worse. Schneider, on the other hand, beasts no matter what.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:16 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50MissionCap View Post
Under what circumstances WOULD you trade Luongo if the cap stays the same?
An offer that blows our socks off, or at least fits very well. None of this "he could be a xx goal scorer" or "he could slot in next to xxxxx". A definite upgrade to our top six (ie better then Booth, closer to Burrows, ideally a tougher playmaking winger), a top line RD or a bluechip prospect to start up. I'm not trying to sound like a zealot, but we don't need to trade him if we have the cap space, so we won't unless it's of absolute benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Luongo/Schneider tandem is 15% of a 60M cap.

During the Luongo era we used to spend 13-17% and end up 3rd in the West. If we ran with the tandem again it would hurt our depth but we would still ice a very very good team.
Taking 5.33 or 4 off the block, add Lack's....I want to say 750k, and apply to another area...stellar, if we could fill it in free agency, or with a trade, for something better then what we had. I'd be happy sitting on both, it's not like we will see a massive drop in value from both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Would rather do a variation on that, something like play until your Sv% is below .900. We've seen both Luongo and Schneider lose games where they put up a wall only to have the rest of the team not show up.
Bingo. Not on wins/losses, but individual play, perhaps not Sv%, but not straight wins.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:49 PM
  #232
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First one to allow 4 goals in a game gets traded.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:25 PM
  #233
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So, never quite understood why Gillis was asking for Gardiner. As of now, Canucks have an abundance of lefty d-men. But Gallagher and Botch have suggested/implied that this might be Edlers last season in Van:

Botch
Q: more i look at it, more it seems like real possiblityole Edler may not be around for a while. you believe it?
A: I have it as 75% gone after this year

Gallaghers article: Link

Yes, some complainants don't like Botch or Gallagher, but Edler didn't resign before the expiring CBA - so it def poses a ?? If Edler wants to much, might they package him in a goalie trade? Or, will Gillis be looking for another top 4 d-man in a goalie trade instead of centre/winger for Kes? If you look at the 2013 UFA d-men, it's a bust. So Gillis might need to get his replacement back in a goalie trade.

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12-11-2012, 10:29 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
First one to allow 4 goals in a game gets traded.
I don't post on these board very often, but this made me laugh out loud. Well done.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:32 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
So, never quite understood why Gillis was asking for Gardiner. As of now, Canucks have an abundance of lefty d-men. But Gallagher and Botch have suggested/implied that this might be Edlers last season in Van:

Botch
Q: more i look at it, more it seems like real possiblityole Edler may not be around for a while. you believe it?
A: I have it as 75% gone after this year

Gallaghers article: Link

Yes, some complainants don't like Botch or Gallagher, but Edler didn't resign before the expiring CBA - so it def poses a ?? If Edler wants to much, might they package him in a goalie trade? Or, will Gillis be looking for another top 4 d-man in a goalie trade instead of centre/winger for Kes? If you look at the 2013 UFA d-men, it's a bust. So Gillis might need to get his replacement back in a goalie trade.
Botch also recently wrote a disparaging article about Edler. He has no insight into what's going on with the club and just writes controversial articles to get himself views.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:32 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
So, never quite understood why Gillis was asking for Gardiner. As of now, Canucks have an abundance of lefty d-men. But Gallagher and Botch have suggested/implied that this might be Edlers last season in Van:

Botch
Q: more i look at it, more it seems like real possiblityole Edler may not be around for a while. you believe it?
A: I have it as 75% gone after this year

Gallaghers article: Link

Yes, some complainants don't like Botch or Gallagher, but Edler didn't resign before the expiring CBA - so it def poses a ?? If Edler wants to much, might they package him in a goalie trade? Or, will Gillis be looking for another top 4 d-man in a goalie trade instead of centre/winger for Kes? If you look at the 2013 UFA d-men, it's a bust. So Gillis might need to get his replacement back in a goalie trade.
What would Edler get elsewhere that he wouldn't get in Vancouver?
He currently gets top pairing minutes on a top NHL team, and the Canucks should have plenty of cap space to re-sign him (although Ballard may need to be moved).

The only way I see the Canucks not re-signing him is if he wants $7+ mil per year, or if Edler has personal issues and wants out.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:38 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Botch also recently wrote a disparaging article about Edler. He has no insight into what's going on with the club and just writes controversial articles to get himself views.
Perhaps. But it's now 2 sources 'implying' the same thing, so it's at least a conversation peice. Botch also had all the Luongo and Doan info this summer when no one else did. Of course, I am sure he had things wrong as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
What would Edler get elsewhere that he wouldn't get in Vancouver?
He currently gets top pairing minutes on a top NHL team, and the Canucks should have plenty of cap space to re-sign him (although Ballard may need to be moved).

The only way I see the Canucks not re-signing him is if he wants $7+ mil per year, or if Edler has personal issues and wants out.
I have no idea, I have no inside info. I posted this info more of a conversation piece re: a goalie trade. 'If' they don't resign Edler, it might explain why Gillis allegedly asked for another lefty d-man. Also, 'if' it's true, how are they going to replace him - they might have to do it with a goalie trade. Also, what could a Luongo/Edler get?

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:17 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
First one to allow 4 goals in a game gets traded.


Lu's reaction to no October this season.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:25 AM
  #239
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Anything more than $6.1million and Edler walks I think.

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:27 AM
  #240
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Interesting how revisionist history works though re: that article. Mattias Ohlund was one of the defenders Gillis saw as necessary to drop given the way the style of this team was going.

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12-12-2012, 04:42 AM
  #241
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Posted this in the T&R Forum:




There is a divide between giving up pieces to improve VAN's roster and giving up pieces that are NHL ready. For instance, Kadri _seems_ like he's NHL ready, but it remains to be seen if he can help a team like TO, let alone VAN. It is doubtful, that if dealing with TO, that VAN receives pieces that helps them more in the here and now. It would weaken TO too much...



Burke has to define TO's goals for this year. If it's to make his biggest push for the playoffs, then Luongo and current NHL roster pieces are the priority. If it's to continue to build for the future, then Luongo does not make sense in TO and they will run with what they have. Burke can't do both IMO, not if he's serious about Luongo. There will be no middle ground. So if he's offering a pittance for Luongo, he's pretty much conveyed that he is willing to stay the course. If he's offering something serious, and rumours report that his offer is the best on the table right now (outbid EDM), then he's made the call that he's going to push for the playoffs. Which means he's going to try and retain as many NHL roster pieces as possible.



What does this mean? To me it means Bozak is perhaps the _only_ current roster player coming back. Maybe Frattin. Everything else is likely to stay. But what it also means is that the bulk of the assets coming back will be in the NHL ready assets/futures mold. Players that haven't made an impact yet in the pros. This puts Kadri on the table, and other names like Colborne, Ashton, Blacker _AND_ most all future assets that haven't been drafted 5th overall etc...






So basically, push for the playoffs = NHL roster pieces retained, Luongo pursued. And in contrast, stay the course = No Luongo. It cannot be both -> Unless you are expecting Luongo for a song, and Burke + Gillis know better.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 12-12-2012 at 06:11 AM.
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Old
12-12-2012, 05:05 AM
  #242
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@Bleach: Me and you actually see it very fairly, but I see Bozak as a Kyle Wellwood if you will. Someone who is decent offensively on a non-serious contender, but bad offensively and at-best semi-competent defensively defensively in a proper 3rd line centre's role. See past Cup-winners such as: Jarret Stoll, Chris Kelly, Dave Bolland, Jordan Staal, Valterri Filppula, Sami Pahlsson, and Doug Weight.

The third-line center has always been a critically role for being a two-way player. While Bozak might provide offensively, I don't trust him for a second defensively.

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12-12-2012, 06:09 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
@Bleach: Me and you actually see it very fairly, but I see Bozak as a Kyle Wellwood if you will. Someone who is decent offensively on a non-serious contender, but bad offensively and at-best semi-competent defensively defensively in a proper 3rd line centre's role. See past Cup-winners such as: Jarret Stoll, Chris Kelly, Dave Bolland, Jordan Staal, Valterri Filppula, Sami Pahlsson, and Doug Weight.

The third-line center has always been a critically role for being a two-way player. While Bozak might provide offensively, I don't trust him for a second defensively.


Neither do I. His two-way play is suspect. That said, he's the "best" C option coming back (Grabo won't be traded IMO), so it is what it is.


I can see him being the only NHL piece coming back though, which is more my point. With the pending cap fall to 60m, and having to re-sign Higgins and Edler at the very least, now is not the time to be taking on much salary back. With Kadri being on the cusp of having to get NHL time, those two pieces alone should be enough for the short-term. Long-term, it's another story...

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12-12-2012, 06:18 AM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Neither do I. His two-way play is suspect. That said, he's the "best" C option coming back (Grabo won't be traded IMO), so it is what it is.


I can see him being the only NHL piece coming back though, which is more my point. With the pending cap fall to 60m, and having to re-sign Higgins and Edler at the very least, now is not the time to be taking on much salary back. With Kadri being on the cusp of having to get NHL time, those two pieces alone should be enough for the short-term. Long-term, it's another story...
Mmm. Like I said. If we were a Dallas Stars, or Buffalo Sabres team I'd take it, but we are not. We are a Kings-team, ready to make a run for the Cup and have the experience to do so. Luongo is an extremely talented goalie which is an asset for our team (unless we want to go back to the Labarbera/Sanford/Sabourin years) we should ehold onto him until we can get most value, he ain't going to be a UFA ever I think, which works in our advantage. Whichever team he goes to, he'll be that goalie for 7-9years. He might be able to take them into th Finals in the next 5-6 years so you never know which is why expect a considerably higher price than most on this thread, though I find your logic most reasonable throughout the past 2 months.

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12-12-2012, 06:34 AM
  #245
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Mmm. Like I said. If we were a Dallas Stars, or Buffalo Sabres team I'd take it, but we are not. We are a Kings-team, ready to make a run for the Cup and have the experience to do so. Luongo is an extremely talented goalie which is an asset for our team (unless we want to go back to the Labarbera/Sanford/Sabourin years) we should ehold onto him until we can get most value, he ain't going to be a UFA ever I think, which works in our advantage. Whichever team he goes to, he'll be that goalie for 7-9years. He might be able to take them into th Finals in the next 5-6 years so you never know which is why expect a considerably higher price than most on this thread, though I find your logic most reasonable throughout the past 2 months.


Thanks. To me that high price is Bozak + Kadri + Percy + 1st. Some might feel that is crap, but realistically, that's a package we can expect given all of the pros and cons of Luongo. That's plenty IMO.


You get a "good prospect" that is ready to step up, a Dman prospect, a 1st and a current 3C. It makes sense on many levels. Does it involve Lupul, Kulemin, and/or Grabovski? No, but then I never expected any of those pieces coming back for differing reasons. TO needs _every_ possible NHL piece to remain on the roster in order to compete now. It just so happens, that this aligns almost perfectly with what VAN wants because they want younger, cost-controlled pieces right now. This is why I think Kadri and Bozak have been rumoured recently. And why I think they will be the _only_ NHL pieces coming back.





Edit: My opinion, and going on record here, I think he goes to TO for Kadri + Bozak + 1st and that's it. Percy would be a nice swap for Sauve, but I doubt it will happen.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 12-12-2012 at 06:47 AM.
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12-12-2012, 09:05 AM
  #246
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Lupul+ or bust.

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Old
12-12-2012, 09:19 AM
  #247
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If Bozak as the centrepiece is truly the best we can do for Luongo right now, no way I would do that trade.

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12-12-2012, 09:26 AM
  #248
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If Bozak as the centrepiece is truly the best we can do for Luongo right now, no way I would do that trade.


I would do Bozak + Kadri + 1st for Luongo + Tochkin. But then I like Kadri more than some do around here. To me, it's a trade that makes sense for both clubs _if_ Burke feels Connolly can fill in for Bozak this year.

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12-12-2012, 09:35 AM
  #249
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I think Edler and Luongo would transform a team like Edmonton. They could certainly wow everybody with return.

I am thinking several teams in the Eastern conference might benefit from these players. I think a top six forward and possibly a pick would be good return.

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12-12-2012, 09:41 AM
  #250
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Thanks. To me that high price is Bozak + Kadri + Percy + 1st. Some might feel that is crap, but realistically, that's a package we can expect given all of the pros and cons of Luongo. That's plenty IMO.


You get a "good prospect" that is ready to step up, a Dman prospect, a 1st and a current 3C. It makes sense on many levels. Does it involve Lupul, Kulemin, and/or Grabovski? No, but then I never expected any of those pieces coming back for differing reasons. TO needs _every_ possible NHL piece to remain on the roster in order to compete now. It just so happens, that this aligns almost perfectly with what VAN wants because they want younger, cost-controlled pieces right now. This is why I think Kadri and Bozak have been rumoured recently. And why I think they will be the _only_ NHL pieces coming back.





Edit: My opinion, and going on record here, I think he goes to TO for Kadri + Bozak + 1st and that's it. Percy would be a nice swap for Sauve, but I doubt it will happen.
The shorter this season gets, the more unlikely the possibility of the pick being traded becomes. We have to many other issues to risk dealing that pick in a 48 or less games dash for cash style season. And if the season is canceled....then obviously the pick goes nowhere.

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