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Tyler Biggs's discussion thread.

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Old
12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
  #526
smitty10
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Ryane Clowe has only cracked the 20 goal mark twice in his career and most Leafs fans on these boards salivate at the thought of him becoming a Maple Leaf. If Biggs can become a 20-30 guy that'd be fantastic for us because he brings so much to the table. I think he's actually ahead of the curve in terms of the development of power forwards. Just take a look at how late most of them bloom. Some examples:

- Ryane Clowe played an overage season in the QMJHL and two years of AHL hockey before even playing a game with the Sharks. Didn't become an NHL regular until 24.

- Dustin Penner went undrafted and didn't play at all in his first NCAA season (not sure of reason) at 20 years old. Played a full year of College then 2 years of AHL hockey before becoming an NHL regular at 25.

- Erik Cole was drafted at the age of 20. He played 3 years of NCAA and a year in the IHL before making the NHL at 24.

- Troy Brouwer played an overage year in the WHL and the majority of two seasons in the AHL before becoming a regular NHLer.

Although Biggs does still have some developing to do I think he's well on his way to having a good career in the NHL. These power forwards take a little longer to develop and realize their scoring touch, but they're definitely worth the wait. Hopefully he does a full year in the AHL and is ready for a bottom 6 role on the big club the following season. I think he has the tools and game that needs development at the NHL level more than the AHL.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:06 AM
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Biggs wasn't drafted to be a goon.
Biggs wasn't drafted to be a 30 goal scorer.

He was drafted to be a hybrid off both. I think if he can become a just under 20 goal scorer each year, while playing physical hockey, that be great.

Like, if he can pan out to be a less offensive version of Dustin Brown or Ryan Callahan, that be a good use of a low 1st round pick.
I don't see why Brown and Callahan levels would be so out of reach. Both great players, highly effective, far beyond their goals and assists. I'm looking forward to watching him in the WJC. I don't expect big points but I hope he's effective on the ice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
Nobody is disagreeing with you, but you need work on your comparisons...LOL

Gary Roberts, Wendel Clark, Bobby Ryan???

You left out Rick Tocchet, Cam Neely and Brendan Shanahan.
Was comparing playing styles and impact on the ice. Roberts (when he was a Leaf) was that TYPE of player. He was no longer a 50 goal guy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Woah, pump the brakes there. I'll agree that players with a skillset similar to Biggs are more valuable than other players who show similar offensive ability, but nobody is going to draft Tyler Biggs over Claude Giroux. The gamble you make there is a more translatable game vs a higher reward game. Sometimes it works, like Giroux or Lucic. And then other times it doesn't, like Beach or Esposito. But you can't just make a unilateral statement like that.

---
We agree. A 15-20 goal 3rd line guy isn't an unrealistic projection for Biggs. All I'm saying is that he hasn't shown the offensive acumen to be projected as a top 6 forward. Biggs hasn't been a big scorer at any level he's ever played at. The argument that he's going to be a 2nd line guy is a difficult one to make.
well said. The translatable game is a big part of drafting a guy like Biggs.

I don't like the limitation on his upside though. Big forwards are often very raw at 18-19. And not everyone has offensive success in junior. James Neal never cracked 30 goals, Ryan Getzlaf scored less in junior than in the NHL.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:23 AM
  #528
smitty10
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I wouldn't say Roberts was ever an elite sniper. Playing with Fleury and Nieuwendyk inflated his stats a lot, especially in that era. I think he was more of a 30-40 guy than a 50-40 guy on a normal line.

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12-11-2012, 07:51 AM
  #529
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If he plays on a 1st line as the muscle he could be a poor mans Clark Gillies. Take away Gillies few monster seasons (90 points thank you Trottier and Bossy) and you could see potential for Biggs to be that type of player. Not saYing he will be another Gillies, but he could play that role on a top line.

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12-11-2012, 09:57 AM
  #530
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So with Biggs more than likely making the US WJ squad, is there any concerns about his skating on the big ice? Not overly familiar with how well he skates, and for a guy his size and style, skating is commonly an issue, especially on the larger ice surface.

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12-11-2012, 11:24 AM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
So with Biggs more than likely making the US WJ squad, is there any concerns about his skating on the big ice? Not overly familiar with how well he skates, and for a guy his size and style, skating is commonly an issue, especially on the larger ice surface.
He's actually a really solid skater. I'd say it's actually his biggest asset.

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12-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
So with Biggs more than likely making the US WJ squad, is there any concerns about his skating on the big ice? Not overly familiar with how well he skates, and for a guy his size and style, skating is commonly an issue, especially on the larger ice surface.
at the start of the year i would of had that in the back of my mind but his speed and his footwork has improved alot this year.

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12-11-2012, 02:06 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
You live in Windsor?
NO, but I always make the effort to see Leaf picks when I can. Have always done that, I was at the Draft in Minny when the took the 3 Bulls that fall and Sundin went No.1, that Fall I made my annual trek to Newmarket to see the Saints and caught the Bulls in Kitchner on the way back. The three prospects were dissappointing to say the least, I could see their skating would never allow them to be stars in the nhl. I got to know Floyd Smith a bit having seen him around different rinks, at that time Domi was playing for the Saints and all he did was fight but I'd watch him in practise and could see his skating wasn't bad and he had a decent shot and some skill. I mentioned this to Floyd and he looked at me like you can't be serious that off season Domi was traded to the Rangers for a guy who never played but a few NHL games. I'll say this about Floyd he wanted to take Joe Sakic but Brophy went to Ballard that he needed size of the back end thus they took Richarson, I was at that draft in 87 it was held in Detroit at the Joe best draft I've ever been too all the Pizza and Drinks were Free, and believe me the Pizza at the Joe is much better than you can get at the outlets all over the world. Ilitch's have always done it right.

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12-11-2012, 02:58 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
The three prospects were dissappointing to say the least, I could see their skating would never allow them to be stars in the nhl.

Not sure thats 100% accurate. Rob Pearson always looked like he was skating in sand, but Scott Thornton was a good skater, but just seemed to have stone hands for a top pick. Considering we had three picks in first round that year, was definitely disapointing that none of them turned out to be much use to the Leafs.
In fact, if I remember correct we took Scott Pearson with a reasonably high pick the previous season. 4 x first round picks in 2 years...none of them had much impact with the Leafs.

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12-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
Not sure thats 100% accurate. Rob Pearson always looked like he was skating in sand, but Scott Thornton was a good skater, but just seemed to have stone hands for a top pick. Considering we had three picks in first round that year, was definitely disapointing that none of them turned out to be much use to the Leafs.
In fact, if I remember correct we took Scott Pearson with a reasonably high pick the previous season. 4 x first round picks in 2 years...none of them had much impact with the Leafs.
Your right Scott had hands of stone Rob couldn't skate, they passed on Billy Guerin. After Rob went Travis Green, and after Bancroft was Adam Foote.

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12-11-2012, 03:25 PM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Your right Scott had hands of stone Rob couldn't skate, they passed on Billy Guerin. After Rob went Travis Green, and after Bancroft was Adam Foote.
Hindsight won't make a difference now and it never does. Marcus Johansson has performed more so the average 09 draft players but I am sure a lot of the other GMs are more than happy with their picks and can't do much about it. The saying crying over spilled milk comes to mind here.

Edit: With that let's continue to dicuss Tyler Biggs only. He has been good so far and better than many, including myself has though he would be.

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12-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Hindsight won't make a difference now and it never does. Marcus Johansson has performed more so the average 09 draft players but I am sure a lot of the other GMs are more than happy with their picks and can't do much about it. The saying crying over spilled milk comes to mind here.
This. There's nothing you can do about it.

And you can't make a statement like "the Leafs have drafted terrible since the early 90's". GM's and Ownership has changed, its not a constant, we've had some good luck and bad luck.

If you go through each organization you'll realize that most of them have some late round hits and early round misses. Everyone always brings up the Red Wings, how they got Datsyuk in the 6th round. People fail to mention that they only had one other player from that draft ever play in the NHL, passing on names like Fisher, Gionta, Ribeiro, Richards and Cole in favour of players who never played a game.

The NHL draft is extremely tough.

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Hindsight won't make a difference now and it never does. Marcus Johansson has performed more so the average 09 draft players but I am sure a lot of the other GMs are more than happy with their picks and can't do much about it. The saying crying over spilled milk comes to mind here.

Edit: With that let's continue to dicuss Tyler Biggs only. He has been good so far and better than many, including myself has though he would be.
We realize and weren't trying to conjure up comparison to the past or de-rail the thread, just a little bit of nostalgia. It was around that time I first started following the draft and prospects more intently...and with no internet back then, hockey news was the main source of draft and prospect material. Recall top ten prospects like John McIntyre, Joe Sacco, Peter Ing, Jack Capuano, and Eric Lacroix.

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Old
12-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #539
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Leafs haven't actually drafted terribly. They've got good results from their drafting in terms of quantity of NHLers.

What they've failed to do, though, is draft any stars.

Kaberle's the only one in the last 20 years of drafting. Rielly's probably going to be #2. Though I guess Rask has a chance too.

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12-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Leafs haven't actually drafted terribly. They've got good results from their drafting in terms of quantity of NHLers.

What they've failed to do, though, is draft any stars.

Kaberle's the only one in the last 20 years of drafting. Rielly's probably going to be #2. Though I guess Rask has a chance too.
This i would agree with. Most of their selections are safe. They tend to avoid selecting boom/bust players. Definitely don't mind, as long as Burke is capable of trading for these star players. I do believe that this Dominic Toninato kid could end up being a steal. Did some thorough research on him and from what i've seen and heard, he could definitely be a gem. Reminds me of hybrid Mike Richards/David Krejci. We will see in a few years.

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12-11-2012, 05:21 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
This i would agree with. Most of their selections are safe. They tend to avoid selecting boom/bust players. Definitely don't mind, as long as Burke is capable of trading for these star players. I do believe that this Dominic Toninato kid could end up being a steal. Did some thorough research on him and from what i've seen and heard, he could definitely be a gem. Reminds me of hybrid Mike Richards/David Krejci. We will see in a few years.
kadri I believe will also be fine, he is a boom bust pick,

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12-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #542
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I think at this point the cupboard is stocked full of safe picks, time to go for that boom/bust draft.

Biggs has been doing welll so far this year, let's hope he continues.

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12-12-2012, 09:28 AM
  #543
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I think at this point the cupboard is stocked full of safe picks, time to go for that boom/bust draft.
Maybe that was the level of thinking last year, when they selected Reilly.

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12-12-2012, 09:32 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
Maybe that was the level of thinking last year, when they selected Reilly.
Rielly isn't a boom-bust.

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Old
12-12-2012, 09:41 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
Maybe that was the level of thinking last year, when they selected Reilly.
Rielly is more of a boom or boom pick... lol

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12-12-2012, 09:55 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
Rielly isn't a boom-bust.
Disagree. Certain amount of risk selecting Reilly due to his injury.

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12-12-2012, 09:59 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Rielly is more of a boom or boom pick... lol
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12-12-2012, 10:17 AM
  #548
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Biggs has been performing really well but I hope people keep in mind his linemates. They have certainly helped his stats. If he had been in rielly's situation, I doubt he would have amassed this many points.

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12-12-2012, 10:37 AM
  #549
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Biggs has been performing really well but I hope people keep in mind his linemates. They have certainly helped his stats. If he had been in rielly's situation, I doubt he would have amassed this many points.
I don't think hes ever going to be someone that's going to create his own offense and scoring chances. Hes a guy you put on a line with 2 skilled guys and expect him to work the boards and be a big net presence. Chip in those dirty goals and fight to protect our skilled guys when necessary.

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12-12-2012, 11:39 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
NO, but I always make the effort to see Leaf picks when I can. Have always done that, I was at the Draft in Minny when the took the 3 Bulls that fall and Sundin went No.1, that Fall I made my annual trek to Newmarket to see the Saints and caught the Bulls in Kitchner on the way back. The three prospects were dissappointing to say the least, I could see their skating would never allow them to be stars in the nhl. I got to know Floyd Smith a bit having seen him around different rinks, at that time Domi was playing for the Saints and all he did was fight but I'd watch him in practise and could see his skating wasn't bad and he had a decent shot and some skill. I mentioned this to Floyd and he looked at me like you can't be serious that off season Domi was traded to the Rangers for a guy who never played but a few NHL games. I'll say this about Floyd he wanted to take Joe Sakic but Brophy went to Ballard that he needed size of the back end thus they took Richarson, I was at that draft in 87 it was held in Detroit at the Joe best draft I've ever been too all the Pizza and Drinks were Free, and believe me the Pizza at the Joe is much better than you can get at the outlets all over the world. Ilitch's have always done it right.
Interesting.

And I agree, You go to ANY outlet in a building that houses an Ilitch team, and you'll get AMAZING food. Little Caesar's sucks outside of the Joe or Comerica. It's like cardboard, but you get it at those two places, and it's stellar.

I don't get out to as many games this year, as I had to step away from coaching/managing in the last couple weeks. got laid off (like a good portion of the people here in Windsor), and have to find stable work before I can dedicate so much time to coaching.

At least I have the tele....

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