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Isles to Brooklyn 2015 Part III **Preseason Game v Devils 9-21-13

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:55 PM
  #26
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{MOD EDIT: SPECULATION}A poster on Mania says he spoke to Bruce Ratner before tonight's Net game. Ratner told him the Isles will be in Brooklyn for the '14-'15 season for sure.

This is consistent with what I heard from a Nets source.

So if this season is locked out completely that leaves just 41 games left at NVMC. (or about 60 games left if they squeeze in half a season.)


Last edited by Homeland Security: 12-12-2012 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Edit
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12-12-2012, 06:45 AM
  #27
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A poster on Mania says he spoke to Bruce Ratner before tonight's Net game. Ratner told him the Isles will be in Brooklyn for the '14-'15 season for sure.

This is consistent with what I heard from a Nets source.

So if this season is locked out completely that leaves just 41 games left at NVMC. (or about 60 games left if they squeeze in half a season.)
Don't forget that Nassau county still has some projected revenue from the Islanders until 2015. So unless Ratner is willing to pony up the money there will have to be a deal struck with Nassau.

Let's hope Wang does not agree to use some of his new found revenue to pay for the expense of moving from Nassau early and build himself another excuse for not spending on the ice!

On the other hand if Ratner can convince Nassau that getting rid of the Islanders ASAP translates into moving forward with the transformation of the NVMC into the new home of Disney on Ice, American Idols in concert and the Nassau Suffolk lumber show, more power to him.

IMO if playing in Nassau till 2015 means a bigger on ice payroll in Brooklyn then I am all for honoring the lease until its conclusion.

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12-12-2012, 07:45 AM
  #28
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Don't forget that Nassau county still has some projected revenue from the Islanders until 2015. So unless Ratner is willing to pony up the money there will have to be a deal struck with Nassau.

Let's hope Wang does not agree to use some of his new found revenue to pay for the expense of moving from Nassau early and build himself another excuse for not spending on the ice!

On the other hand if Ratner can convince Nassau that getting rid of the Islanders ASAP translates into moving forward with the transformation of the NVMC into the new home of Disney on Ice, American Idols in concert and the Nassau Suffolk lumber show, more power to him.
IMO if playing in Nassau till 2015 means a bigger on ice payroll in Brooklyn then I am all for honoring the lease until its conclusion.
Bingo. The whole weird Ratner/Wang consulting on the future of the NVMC makes me think the Isles will be in Brooklyn earlier than 2015.

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12-12-2012, 08:32 AM
  #29
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Don't forget that Nassau county still has some projected revenue from the Islanders until 2015. So unless Ratner is willing to pony up the money there will have to be a deal struck with Nassau.

Let's hope Wang does not agree to use some of his new found revenue to pay for the expense of moving from Nassau early and build himself another excuse for not spending on the ice!

On the other hand if Ratner can convince Nassau that getting rid of the Islanders ASAP translates into moving forward with the transformation of the NVMC into the new home of Disney on Ice, American Idols in concert and the Nassau Suffolk lumber show, more power to him.

IMO if playing in Nassau till 2015 means a bigger on ice payroll in Brooklyn then I am all for honoring the lease until its conclusion.
How do you get a bigger payroll with arena revenues going to Ratner/Prokorov, fewer seats at a higher price, the same sh****y management and no other revenue sources? Just curious? Fewer seats, a lower take......yeah, more revenue. We should leave tomorrow. Maybe sooner. And like with the Mets after the new stadium/arena smell wears off, what does the attendance look like in Ranger country when people decide to not take the train for twenty bucks to the arena an hour away? Good times. We better win.

And we better draw some serious crowds.

Otherwise, Ratner or Prokorov better buy the friggen team for it to survive.

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12-12-2012, 09:32 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by lorwood View Post
Don't forget that Nassau county still has some projected revenue from the Islanders until 2015. So unless Ratner is willing to pony up the money there will have to be a deal struck with Nassau.

Let's hope Wang does not agree to use some of his new found revenue to pay for the expense of moving from Nassau early and build himself another excuse for not spending on the ice!

On the other hand if Ratner can convince Nassau that getting rid of the Islanders ASAP translates into moving forward with the transformation of the NVMC into the new home of Disney on Ice, American Idols in concert and the Nassau Suffolk lumber show, more power to him.IMO if playing in Nassau till 2015 means a bigger on ice payroll in Brooklyn then I am all for honoring the lease until its conclusion.
The bold is the reason for the Ratner/NVMC consulting and why they'll leave early.

If Wang is still the owner in 2014 or 2015, Ratner must have wanted some assurances that money will be spent to put a quality product out, now that more revenue will be made - $35 million right away. They wouldn't leave early if the plusses didn't heavily outweigh the minuses financially. I'd think the last thing Ratner wants is to add a tenant that will run a bare bones operation. They had to have some conversations about the future of the Isles and spending like a legitimate franchise should.

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12-12-2012, 10:19 AM
  #31
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How do you get a bigger payroll with arena revenues going to Ratner/Prokorov, fewer seats at a higher price, the same sh****y management and no other revenue sources? Just curious? Fewer seats, a lower take......yeah, more revenue. We should leave tomorrow. Maybe sooner. And like with the Mets after the new stadium/arena smell wears off, what does the attendance look like in Ranger country when people decide to not take the train for twenty bucks to the arena an hour away? Good times. We better win.

And we better draw some serious crowds.

Otherwise, Ratner or Prokorov better buy the friggen team for it to survive.
According to what I have read (or maybe I miss read it) revenue increases 35 mil more a season just by moving to Brooklyn.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

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12-12-2012, 12:31 PM
  #32
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According to what I have read (or maybe I miss read it) revenue increases 35 mil more a season just by moving to Brooklyn.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
There's no way that's true.. I believe what you read was forbes projection on franchise value going up $35mil with the move. Revenue will go up but is not going to skyrocket certainly not $35mil.

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12-12-2012, 12:43 PM
  #33
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There's no way that's true.. I believe what you read was forbes projection on franchise value going up $35mil with the move. Revenue will go up but is not going to skyrocket certainly not $35mil.
Forbes estimated per season revenue increasing by $40M. As for Franchise valuations, the Nets went from $357M to $575M from last season to this season. I don't expect the Isles to jump over $200M, but I think it is a safe bet the number will be considerably more than $35M.

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12-12-2012, 12:43 PM
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There's no way that's true.. I believe what you read was forbes projection on franchise value going up $35mil with the move. Revenue will go up but is not going to skyrocket certainly not $35mil.
Correct.

Revenue goes up not in cable revenue, CERTAINLY not long term in arena revenue with fewer seats and higher ticket prices or lower ticket prices, but in merchandising, and that would depend on a lot more than the "newness" of Brooklyn.

The Isles have to win, and then win over the Ranger fans locally, win over those affected by the commute and hassle (though admittedly, it makes it much easier for some, for others it is a long train ride, and for parents, a nightmare if bringing kids to games).

Advertising revenue will increase, but.....for whom? Wang got all ad revenue before, but will likely only get a small share of revenue as many are advertising with the Nets. Arena operator, Nets and the lowly Islanders.....what kinda piece of the action do they get?

What is Wang's share of the 41 nights of luxury suites corporates buy for the full year?

I don't see revenue being up much except maybe in the beginning few years as we saw with the Mets rise in popularity with the new stadium.

But we shall see. If the team suddenly "unsucks" and becomes a contender, naturally, revenue will increase as it would have in the NVMC, but by more given the better ad generating in the shared arena and location. Hipsters and celebs will boost the attendance and wow factor. They start losing and I wouldn't count on celebs going to Isles game save maybe for "E" the uberceleb.

So we win big and make money or we lose, and likely lose big. Same as always.

I hope to God Wang starts giving a rat's *** now, because I'm tired of losing.

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12-12-2012, 12:58 PM
  #35
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There's no way that's true.. I believe what you read was forbes projection on franchise value going up $35mil with the move. Revenue will go up but is not going to skyrocket certainly not $35mil.
Incorrect.

From the NY Times -


Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?

A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club’s current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.

The main benefit in this move “is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it’s in the huge increase they’ll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats,” said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country.

The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million.

Barclays Center, which is far more geographically convenient to corporate customers than the Coliseum, has 104 luxury suites. Knopp estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum.

“I’d happily ride the train for another 25 minutes to watch $35 million more in talent on the ice,” Knopp said.




http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...es/?ref=hockey

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12-12-2012, 02:00 PM
  #36
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Incorrect.

From the NY Times -


Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?

A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club’s current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.

The main benefit in this move “is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it’s in the huge increase they’ll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats,” said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country.

The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million.

Barclays Center, which is far more geographically convenient to corporate customers than the Coliseum, has 104 luxury suites. Knopp estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum.

“I’d happily ride the train for another 25 minutes to watch $35 million more in talent on the ice,” Knopp said.




http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...es/?ref=hockey
Yeah this is what I read.

Sometimes you have to let common sense take over and common sense tells you that there had to be something more than frustration with Nassau for Wang to make the move.

The good news is that this 35 million bump is mostly corporate revenue which win or lose will be pretty steady.

The big question is will Wang respond "properly" with this new income and put it on the ice?

Well as been pointed out you would think Ratner and Bettman would expect so as Wang has no more excuses.

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12-12-2012, 04:36 PM
  #37
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How do you get a bigger payroll with arena revenues going to Ratner/Prokorov, fewer seats at a higher price, the same sh****y management and no other revenue sources? Just curious? Fewer seats, a lower take......yeah, more revenue. We should leave tomorrow. Maybe sooner. And like with the Mets after the new stadium/arena smell wears off, what does the attendance look like in Ranger country when people decide to not take the train for twenty bucks to the arena an hour away? Good times. We better win.

And we better draw some serious crowds.

Otherwise, Ratner or Prokorov better buy the friggen team for it to survive.
The seats prices are being raised because Brooklyn has less seats than NVMC. This is to make up for it. However there are more luxury boxes at the Barclays Center which is where the money is made. As long we start to turn everything around, we'll fill most seats and luxury boxes everynight, so we will be making more money. Plus factor in merchandise and the TV deal.

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12-13-2012, 11:48 AM
  #38
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Correct.

Revenue goes up not in cable revenue, CERTAINLY not long term in arena revenue with fewer seats and higher ticket prices or lower ticket prices, but in merchandising, and that would depend on a lot more than the "newness" of Brooklyn.

The Isles have to win, and then win over the Ranger fans locally, win over those affected by the commute and hassle (though admittedly, it makes it much easier for some, for others it is a long train ride, and for parents, a nightmare if bringing kids to games).

Advertising revenue will increase, but.....for whom? Wang got all ad revenue before, but will likely only get a small share of revenue as many are advertising with the Nets. Arena operator, Nets and the lowly Islanders.....what kinda piece of the action do they get?

What is Wang's share of the 41 nights of luxury suites corporates buy for the full year?

I don't see revenue being up much except maybe in the beginning few years as we saw with the Mets rise in popularity with the new stadium.

But we shall see. If the team suddenly "unsucks" and becomes a contender, naturally, revenue will increase as it would have in the NVMC, but by more given the better ad generating in the shared arena and location. Hipsters and celebs will boost the attendance and wow factor. They start losing and I wouldn't count on celebs going to Isles game save maybe for "E" the uberceleb.

So we win big and make money or we lose, and likely lose big. Same as always.

I hope to God Wang starts giving a rat's *** now, because I'm tired of losing.
-The Islanders' "territory" right now is filled with Ranger fans. They don't need to move to Brooklyn in order to face this problem. It (literally) takes a dynasty for the Islanders to be the #1 team in their own territory (Long Island). Let's no kid ourselves about that.

-Brooklyn has a LOT more access to people (in sheer numbers) than NVMC does. Give me a break the NVMC does't even have a LIRR stop across the street from it-Barclays does.

-Not sure where you get the idea that all advertising will be split? Advertising at Islander games would be different than Net games for the most part (different demographics).

Finally-we get it. You didn't want our precious team moving from NVMC. That's been beaten to death as it is. Brooklyn is a MUCH better option than Long Island for this team-and I think just about everybody knows that deep down inside. It's common sense. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-get over it. Let's all support them there-because it was either there or Quebec. Nassau was NOT an option.

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12-13-2012, 02:49 PM
  #39
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The seats prices are being raised because Brooklyn has less seats than NVMC. This is to make up for it. However there are more luxury boxes at the Barclays Center which is where the money is made. As long we start to turn everything around, we'll fill most seats and luxury boxes everynight, so we will be making more money. Plus factor in merchandise and the TV deal.
Seat prices will be inevitably increased due to supply and demand. Barclays Center is in reasonable accessible distance from about 20 million people, Nassau Coliseum is in reasonable accessible distance from about 6-8 million people. (Monday through Friday) Ticket prices will go up because more people will be interested in going to the games.

If Barclays was on Hempstead turnpike, after the first year, ticket prices would regress back to what they are now, as the market would be no different, even with a shiny newer, smaller arena.

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12-13-2012, 11:40 PM
  #40
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-The Islanders' "territory" right now is filled with Ranger fans. They don't need to move to Brooklyn in order to face this problem. It (literally) takes a dynasty for the Islanders to be the #1 team in their own territory (Long Island). Let's no kid ourselves about that.

-Brooklyn has a LOT more access to people (in sheer numbers) than NVMC does. Give me a break the NVMC does't even have a LIRR stop across the street from it-Barclays does.

-Not sure where you get the idea that all advertising will be split? Advertising at Islander games would be different than Net games for the most part (different demographics).

Finally-we get it. You didn't want our precious team moving from NVMC. That's been beaten to death as it is. Brooklyn is a MUCH better option than Long Island for this team-and I think just about everybody knows that deep down inside. It's common sense. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-get over it. Let's all support them there-because it was either there or Quebec. Nassau was NOT an option.
I think Nassau essentially died when the referendum was defeated on August 1, 2011. But it officially died when Wang showed NO interest on the latest Nassau Hub RFQ which closed on July 30, 2012. Even though Wang could have sold the team to a developer who wants to keep the Isles in Nassau, no one was going to meet his price (300 M).

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...87aiMxswHMkaxO

Unfortunately for LaFontaine, who still lives on Long Island and is active in charities there, that price is said to be a sky-high $300 million...

At the same time, former Islander greats Bob Nystrom and Denis Potvin are advising one Long Island developer on a plan to keep the team right where it is.

The two are working with Ed Blumenfeld, one of three finalists to become “master developer” of the Coliseum site, which would include a new arena.

Blumenfeld’s goal is either to persuade Wang to stay in the area and use the new arena or, if Wang moves the team out of the area, to persuade another owner to move a team to Nassau County.

The developer is interested, according to sources, in buying a hockey team but he does not want to buy the Islanders for $300 million.

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12-13-2012, 11:44 PM
  #41
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http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot....o-proceed.html

At the end of a hearing last Friday (12/7/12) regarding a request for attorneys' fees in the case that forced the ESDC to study the community impacts of a potential 25-year Atlantic Yards buildout, Supreme Court Justice Marcy Friedman asked, just for informational purposes, the status of the SEIS.

First, Karmel said, ESDC will issue a Draft Scope for an SEIS--an optional process that welcomes community input to define the issues that need to be studied. (A Draft Scope was issued in 2005 before a Final Scope for the Environmental Impact Statement.)

"We intend to go out with a Draft Scope this month," Karmel said. A public hearing will be held in January or February.

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12-13-2012, 11:58 PM
  #42
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-The Islanders' "territory" right now is filled with Ranger fans. They don't need to move to Brooklyn in order to face this problem. It (literally) takes a dynasty for the Islanders to be the #1 team in their own territory (Long Island). Let's no kid ourselves about that.

-Brooklyn has a LOT more access to people (in sheer numbers) than NVMC does. Give me a break the NVMC does't even have a LIRR stop across the street from it-Barclays does.

-Not sure where you get the idea that all advertising will be split? Advertising at Islander games would be different than Net games for the most part (different demographics).

Finally-we get it. You didn't want our precious team moving from NVMC. That's been beaten to death as it is. Brooklyn is a MUCH better option than Long Island for this team-and I think just about everybody knows that deep down inside. It's common sense. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn-get over it. Let's all support them there-because it was either there or Quebec. Nassau was NOT an option.
Whoa! You scared me with that last part.

The rest, I won't even bother with. Ads on the boards are Isles but the rest of the arena ads change in between Net and Isles games and concerts as sponsors are shuffled is what you mean? Not gonna wade into that.

Lemme know the target markets in Brooklyn broken down by demographics and everything. The train is great, area not horrible, and we had Nassau or Brooklyn and some mumbo jumbo about moving said by Wang contradicting Bettman saying the team would not move added to the offer for the team with the developer and Wang refusing to sell for less than $300M...added up, Wang's is the one you buy? OK. Like I said, go with it if it makes you feel good. I do NOT judge, just disagree.

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12-14-2012, 07:41 PM
  #43
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[B]I think Nassau essentially died when the referendum was defeated on August 1, 2011. But it officially died when Wang showed NO interest on the latest Nassau Hub RFQ which closed on July 30, 2012.Even though Wang could have sold the team to a developer who wants to keep the Isles in Nassau, no one was going to meet his price (300 M).

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...87aiMxswHMkaxO

Unfortunately for LaFontaine, who still lives on Long Island and is active in charities there, that price is said to be a sky-high $300 million...

At the same time, former Islander greats Bob Nystrom and Denis Potvin are advising one Long Island developer on a plan to keep the team right where it is.

The two are working with Ed Blumenfeld, one of three finalists to become “master developer” of the Coliseum site, which would include a new arena.

Blumenfeld’s goal is either to persuade Wang to stay in the area and use the new arena or, if Wang moves the team out of the area, to persuade another owner to move a team to Nassau County.

The developer is interested, according to sources, in buying a hockey team but he does not want to buy the Islanders for $300 million.
Nassau stopped begin a viable option LONG before the vote. And with all due respect to Potvin-what business credentials does he have? NOBODY would ever choose the NVMC over Barclays-I think we can all agree on that. And who in their right mind wouldn't take a brand new state of the art arena in Brooklyn over a bunch of question marks in Nassau? The suburbs definately don't work for the NHL anymore-and I'm not quite sure they ever did in the first place.

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12-15-2012, 12:40 PM
  #44
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Nassau stopped begin a viable option LONG before the vote. And with all due respect to Potvin-what business credentials does he have? NOBODY would ever choose the NVMC over Barclays-I think we can all agree on that. And who in their right mind wouldn't take a brand new state of the art arena in Brooklyn over a bunch of question marks in Nassau? The suburbs definately don't work for the NHL anymore-and I'm not quite sure they ever did in the first place.
I also think suburbs are bad places for a team in NHL, MLB and NBA since they play a lot of games. The suburban New Jersey Devils model is likely one of the reasons why they are bankrupt, likely due to competition from the Flyers and Rangers within New Jersey. I think the Devils are better off in Quebec since they won't have the same kind competition for the fans with the Canadiens.

Since you're from Tampa, how popular are the Rays compared to the Lightning? Aren't the Rays in St. Petersburg?


Last edited by Steve55: 12-15-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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12-15-2012, 07:48 PM
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I also think suburbs are bad places for a team in NHL, MLB and NBA since they play a lot of games. The suburban New Jersey Devils model is likely one of the reasons why they are bankrupt, likely due to competition from the Flyers and Rangers within New Jersey. I think the Devils are better off in Quebec since they won't have the same kind competition for the fans with the Canadiens.

Since you're from Tampa, how popular are the Rays compared to the Lightning? Aren't the Rays in St. Petersburg?
The Lightning were always ahead of the Rays until the Rays made the World Series a few years ago, and became a competitive team. They're probably on par with each right now imo-currently the Rays are a little bigger due to the lockout. (Baseball is absolutely bigger than hockey-but there's tons of Yankee and Redsox fans down here).

The Rays are located in St. Pete, and it has a BIG role in why they don't draw more fans to games. It's VERY hard for many people to get out to the games there. If they played near the Bucs or the Lightning (especially)-they'd draw a lot more people.

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12-15-2012, 09:41 PM
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http://www.newsday.com/long-island/n...sses-1.4337718

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12-15-2012, 10:18 PM
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I don't have access to Newsday, but does the article say anything about what they're going to do in 3 years when the team is no longer in the Coliseum?

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12-16-2012, 02:03 AM
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I don't have access to Newsday, but does the article say anything about what they're going to do in 3 years when the team is no longer in the Coliseum?
Here's Newsday mobile's version of the article.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...4337718&part=0
NHL lockout hurting Coliseum-area businesses
Frank Borrelli, owner of Borrelli's Restaurant in East Meadow , said hockey games typically boost his business by up to 30 percent on weekdays and 15 percent on weekends. To replace that revenue, he has increased his marketing and begun off-premise catering.


The business owners' concerns come not only as the lockout continues, but also as the local community and county officials prepare for the departure of the team for Brooklyn's Barclays Center in 2015.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #49
Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post

The reader's comments on that artcle say it all -

"Get used to it. Isles are Brooklyn bound in 2015. The only ones to blame are your politicians, Town of Hempstead and all the people who voted no on 8/1. Nassau, you sunk your own ship."

"Perhaps its time for Newsday to ask Mr. Maragos about all the dates that have been filled at the Coliseum since the last Islander home game.* The biggest activity at the Coliseum was as a staging area and tent-city for Sandy workers.** Of course, a tent city might be the property's long-term use anyhow. Then ask him how they are going to replace all the tax revenue."

" Nothing happens around here unless D'Amato and Mondello get their cut. Just look at who was hired as a consultant by Veolia when they were in line for the Nassau bus contract. Just another scam brought to you by the WASTE Conservative Rupublicans."

"Just wait until they get to Brooklyn".

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
  #50
Homeland Security
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
The reader's comments on that artcle say it all -

"Get used to it. Isles are Brooklyn bound in 2015. The only ones to blame are your politicians, Town of Hempstead and all the people who voted no on 8/1. Nassau, you sunk your own ship."

"Perhaps its time for Newsday to ask Mr. Maragos about all the dates that have been filled at the Coliseum since the last Islander home game.* The biggest activity at the Coliseum was as a staging area and tent-city for Sandy workers.** Of course, a tent city might be the property's long-term use anyhow. Then ask him how they are going to replace all the tax revenue."

" Nothing happens around here unless D'Amato and Mondello get their cut. Just look at who was hired as a consultant by Veolia when they were in line for the Nassau bus contract. Just another scam brought to you by the WASTE Conservative Rupublicans."

"Just wait until they get to Brooklyn".

Spot on for both comments. Sad thing is some people are so blind, they can't even hate the right people.

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