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Old
12-12-2012, 01:35 PM
  #51
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I don't understand, if the pick is going to be no better that 11th, why the hesitation still?

If TO gets within the top10, the pick defaults to 2014 anyways, but a 2nd this year would have to be thrown in to compensate.
Call it risk management. This is a deep draft, even players rated at 15-20 look good. If we have our normal collapse, it eases the pain. I also believe that once alot of contracts clear out after this season, Burke is going to make a big UFA push...that is when Luongo becomes more valuable to us.

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12-12-2012, 01:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Yea I do. Kessel is not a crap player, but it was a dumb trade to make for a winger and for a team that needed to rebuild not retool. Toronto fans have said as much themselves.

Had you kept those picks you could have had Seguin, Hamilton and knight
. Your team already looks more impressive. Your D is slot more solid in future years and you have that centre that you need. Centre is more important that wing.

Wingers can be picked up at FA or trade deadlines or w/e and they are much easier to draft. The Centre makes almost all the players on the ice better if he is a true difference maker, like Seguin is.
Yup, ask me again why i don't want to deal our 1st.

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12-12-2012, 01:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Call it risk management. This is a deep draft, even players rated at 15-20 look good. If we have our normal collapse, it eases the pain. I also believe that once alot of contracts clear out after this season, Burke is going to make a big UFA push...that is when Luongo becomes more valuable to us.

Protecting the 1st is risk management...

Cool, so no deal this year and the Leafs run with what they have?


Risk management to ease the pain? Tell me something, is picking in the mid-1st round really going to ease the pain of yet another losing season? Further, why do you assume Burke will even be around to make the pick or make a big UFA push in the offseason?

He's not going to get the chance.

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12-12-2012, 01:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
My good man, our whole team collapsed. If we go on an 8 game losing streak in a 48 game season, we're done. That's the problem. All of you have stated that Luongo's 1st month is typically bad, and then he rounds into form. In an 82 game season, that's something that can be overcome....in 48, not so much.
No, he plays rough in October...as you can see by the lack of pumpkins and halloween memorablia and the excessive of christmas stuff....october is gone.

I'm kidding.

So...maybe he wont help you this season but if you take a look at his contract you wont have him for just this season. I'm really not seeing the problem here, if thats concerning wait until the off season.

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12-12-2012, 01:44 PM
  #55
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Go look up lists for some of the most lopsided trades in NHL history, I've seen that Luongo deal on one or two. Such poor reasoning LL.


A 35 year old Kaberle returned a 1st and a prospect. Luongo doesn't deserve as much? Give your head a shake.


Oh, and G&G signed Lu to such a deal knowing full well they were prepared to roll with him in the latter years of his career. It makes no difference what his age is now vs back then to this club's management team. Again, they signed him knowing full well the risks. If Burke thinks it's too much, he can walk. But I think he's got more common sense than that, believe it or not.
Kaberle was 32 at the time (soon turned 33). and some of the most well connected Toronto sources didn't expect much coming back for the Leafs (from what I remember)..Just like the lopsided Luongo trade at the time, so was that Kaberle trade.

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12-12-2012, 01:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Yup, ask me again why i don't want to deal our 1st.
he dealt two 1sts for a winger. A winger that has very little else to him then speed and great offense. By all accounts he doesn't get dirty, go into the corners and has very little to no defense game to speak of.

A goalie is much more important to the team then a winger.

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12-12-2012, 01:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Call it risk management. This is a deep draft, even players rated at 15-20 look good. If we have our normal collapse, it eases the pain. I also believe that once alot of contracts clear out after this season, Burke is going to make a big UFA push...that is when Luongo becomes more valuable to us.
I also think something Gillis may value is prospects who are close to the NHL.

So there may be more appeal to him to have kadri who could play next year, and Bigs who is 2-3 years away.

Whereas a kid drafted this year is maybe 3-4 years away.

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12-12-2012, 01:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Protecting the 1st is risk management...

Cool, so no deal this year and the Leafs run with what they have?


Risk management to ease the pain? Tell me something, is picking in the mid-1st round really going to ease the pain of yet another losing season? Further, why do you assume Burke will even be around to make the pick or make a big UFA push in the offseason?

He's not going to get the chance.
Why do you assume we are guranteed to miss the playoffs without Luongo? I know it's a long shot, but if Reimer is healthy...maybe we make a run.

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12-12-2012, 01:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
he dealt two 1sts for a winger. A winger that has very little else to him then speed and great offense. By all accounts he doesn't get dirty, go into the corners and has very little to no defense game to speak of.

A goalie is much more important to the team then a winger.
Let's not bring that up in a Lu thread.

THere's enough nonsense that goes on in here anyways.

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12-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
he dealt two 1sts for a winger. A winger that has very little else to him then speed and great offense. By all accounts he doesn't get dirty, go into the corners and has very little to no defense game to speak of.

A goalie is much more important to the team then a winger.
The winger became their franchise player...

And doesnt that descriotion sound like our 2 top players?

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12-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Kaberle was 32 at the time (soon turned 33). and some of the most well connected Toronto sources didn't expect much coming back for the Leafs (from what I remember)..Just like the lopsided Luongo trade at the time, so was that Kaberle trade.

Meaning what Kaberle garnered was unexpectedly good, correct? He got a 1st and a solid prospect, even when there was talk of him being on the market for so long. He got his return.


It will be the same for Luongo. A 1st + good prospect + 3C is not out of line for his value, not matter how it is spun here.

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12-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
No, he plays rough in October...as you can see by the lack of pumpkins and halloween memorablia and the excessive of christmas stuff....october is gone.

I'm kidding.

So...maybe he wont help you this season but if you take a look at his contract you wont have him for just this season. I'm really not seeing the problem here, if thats concerning wait until the off season.
The problem is, if he doesn't help this season, we just dealt a high pick in a deep draft. Again, if we are talking full season, i'm all for it...you guys know that. But the shorter this season gets...the bigger risk TO takes.

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12-12-2012, 01:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ok, i want you to be totally honest, would you do the deal from TO's side? In a deep draft like this, dealing our 1st would be a HUGE risk given the status of our team and a looming shortened season. We have alot of variables other than goaltending. Then you add the MULTIPLE plusses some are talking about and it becomes totally not doable.
well i am baised, and not an expert on TO's players. TO does need a goalie, but when examining what the Canucks need, and what TO can part with, these 2 teams really arent good trading partners. I definitely understand why Toronto wouldnt want to part with a 1st tho.

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12-12-2012, 01:49 PM
  #64
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Meaning what Kaberle garnered was unexpectedly good, correct? He got a 1st and a solid prospect, even when there was talk of him being on the market for so long. He got his return.


It will be the same for Luongo. A 1st + good prospect + 3C is not out of line for his value, not matter how it is spun here.
If the 1st is in the 22-30 range...i agree.

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12-12-2012, 01:52 PM
  #65
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The winger became their franchise player...

And doesnt that descriotion sound like our 2 top players?
and their franchise hasn't made the playoffs since the last lockout. Thats one hell of a drought.

One of those two top players happens to be a centre...and a damn good one and the winger is his twin brother. You can not seriously be telling me that you are drawing similarites between the Sedins and Kessel?

Besides that, there are enough dirty players on the team to do that dirty work that the Sedins don't need to. Burrows, Kes, etc. You get the idea.

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12-12-2012, 01:53 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The problem is, if he doesn't help this season, we just dealt a high pick in a deep draft. Again, if we are talking full season, i'm all for it...you guys know that. But the shorter this season gets...the bigger risk TO takes.
I get that, and I'm fine with a 2014 pick. you'd have to add a 2nd for delaying it a year, because the picks value isn't as high in the next years draft.

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12-12-2012, 01:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Meaning what Kaberle garnered was unexpectedly good, correct? He got a 1st and a solid prospect, even when there was talk of him being on the market for so long. He got his return.


It will be the same for Luongo. A 1st + good prospect + 3C is not out of line for his value, not matter how it is spun here.
Burke got his return. Before the Kaberle trade, Burke stated that a deal will be made if he got an offer that "knocked his socks off." As of this moment, he's stated that he will go into next season with Reimer/Scrivens unless he can upgrade the goaltending position at a reasonable price. I don't think that reasonable price includes trading one of his top 10 picks (Kadri) alongside another 1st round pick.

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12-12-2012, 01:55 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Besides that, there are enough dirty players on the team to do that dirty work that the Sedins don't need to. Burrows, Kes, etc. You get the idea.
The Sedins game is centred around the cycle game and board play... They do thier own dirty work for the most part.

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12-12-2012, 01:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Why do you assume we are guranteed to miss the playoffs without Luongo? I know it's a long shot, but if Reimer is healthy...maybe we make a run.


I think history is on my side on this one. As it is when I project Luongo to continue to play at a high level. I'm looking back to the past for evidence in order project the future, you are projecting the future contrary to evidence. See the difference?



But regardless, TO running with Reimer will be an interesting case study, should it occur. Let's see what happens. Maybe Burke will be hailed as a genius by predicting Reimer takes TO to the playoffs? It's possible.

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12-12-2012, 01:56 PM
  #70
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The Sedins game is centred around the cycle game and board play... They do thier own dirty work for the most part.
Thank you.

So there is nothing in common with Kessel and the Sedins.

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12-12-2012, 01:57 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If the 1st is in the 22-30 range...i agree.

Was it a guarantee that the pick would be no better than 22nd at the time of the deal?

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12-12-2012, 01:59 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
and their franchise hasn't made the playoffs since the last lockout. Thats one hell of a drought.

One of those two top players happens to be a centre...and a damn good one and the winger is his twin brother. You can not seriously be telling me that you are drawing similarites between the Sedins and Kessel?

Besides that, there are enough dirty players on the team to do that dirty work that the Sedins don't need to. Burrows, Kes, etc. You get the idea.
When you criticize Kessel for being soft, its kind of ironic dont you think?

Were a franchise that takes a lot of heat for being soft.

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12-12-2012, 02:00 PM
  #73
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At this point I visit the Luongo threads not to see if there is anything new being discussed but merely to see what part of the circular argument is being visited at present.

There really is a great opportunity for someone to create a detailed info graphic of the whole thing
the ongoing luongo threads are just a time killer for 2 rabid fanbases that love their team and have no substitute other than these threads haha.

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12-12-2012, 02:01 PM
  #74
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When you criticize Kessel for being soft, its kind of ironic dont you think?

Were a franchise that takes a lot of heat for being soft.
Well I cant speak for Kessel, but the Sedins are 2 of the strongest, most dominant in the corners/along the boards players in the league. They are anything but 'soft'.... they just arent fighters, and Henrik does go down easily to fantom slashescrosschecks after the whistle.

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12-12-2012, 02:04 PM
  #75
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Burke got his return. Before the Kaberle trade, Burke stated that a deal will be made if he got an offer that "knocked his socks off." As of this moment, he's stated that he will go into next season with Reimer/Scrivens unless he can upgrade the goaltending position at a reasonable price. I don't think that reasonable price includes trading one of his top 10 picks (Kadri) alongside another 1st round pick.


That is the best deal Burke is going to encounter for a goalie of Luongo's calibre. Right now, the table is set for Burke to capitalize. Tallon hasn't yet figured out what type of goaltending Theodore will provide this year. So if Burke is able to swing the deal before the season starts, it will be at the lowest price possible IMO.


If he goes into the season and his goaltending falters at any point, the price goes up IMO. The same is true if FLA's goaltenting goes south, or EDM gets real desparate. With the current landscape, this is the most opportune time to buy. He won't get a more "reasonable" price.

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