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Old
12-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Ouch. I like KL. I suspect he has these gripes for a reason. Still sort of hurts to hear it from him though as a real fan of the team.

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12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
  #477
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The contract gripe is legitimate; he should've gotten the max.

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12-11-2012, 06:58 PM
  #478
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I hate Taylor/Khan so much.
There's a strong chance we're going to lose the best PF in the NBA because they're idiots.

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12-11-2012, 07:34 PM
  #479
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Kahn has been pretty bad, drafting all those guards and then knowing Rubio wasn't going to be on this side of the Pond didn't sit with me, although I do like Rubio's potential abilities.

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12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #480
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Sure, KLove is almost 100% correct in all his comments, but the fact that these 'comments' exist during the season is unbelievable. Sure, do what you want when your opt out comes up...but making these comments is a huge distraction for the team in a year they have a chance to be a playoff team.

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12-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #481
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Kevin may be right but I still believe it was best to save the max contract for Rubio (although risky), he is more likely to leave even if we have a good team (atleast it sounded like it before he came over).

But if the Wolves don't get a top4 in the west before Love contract expires it won't matter anyway, both Love and Rubio will be gone in some ****** trade by LA/Boston/NY/Dallas.

The media will pretend that they are good trades and the Wolves needed to do them and we will return to irrelevance.

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12-11-2012, 08:40 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
The contract gripe is legitimate; he should've gotten the max.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC2600 View Post
I hate Taylor/Khan so much.
There's a strong chance we're going to lose the best PF in the NBA because they're idiots.
At the time they said they gave him a shorter contract so they could give him a max when he is still restricted. Which would ultimately get him more money and they'd be able to offer more than any other team. Something like that. But it definitely makes sense. No point in Love saying anything about it now. He signed the deal.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:09 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by melinko View Post
Kevin may be right but I still believe it was best to save the max contract for Rubio (although risky), he is more likely to leave even if we have a good team (atleast it sounded like it before he came over).
But we're allowed to have 2 max guys, unless they are working under some internal budget (which I don't think they are). Giving one to Love wouldn't affect Rubio.

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12-11-2012, 10:30 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
But we're allowed to have 2 max guys, unless they are working under some internal budget (which I don't think they are). Giving one to Love wouldn't affect Rubio.
I think Love has a max deal? I think the only thing he didn't get was the 5th year, which you can only have 1 of for your roster.

If my understanding of the situation is correct I think while it is upsetting to Kevin it's the right move. I think not being able to offer Rubio 5 years (if he's deserving) could cause him to leave, and if Rubio gets a max deal and the wolves are winning it may be enough to entice Love to sign another max deal after his next one expires (or give him an extension before year 3 or 4)

It's a tough situation with Love... I like him and I think he's the best player we have and have had since garnett... but there's also a side of me that thinks he's eying a move to the west coast to team up with someone on his level...

To keep Love here the Wolves need to build a winner, and their best shot of that is keeping Rubio on this team long-term with him.

And again, there's no guarantee that this team can compete long-term... The wolves still can't draft... and it's a tough sell to the free agent market to come here.

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12-11-2012, 10:34 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Kahn has been pretty bad, drafting all those guards and then knowing Rubio wasn't going to be on this side of the Pond didn't sit with me, although I do like Rubio's potential abilities.
I think Kahn's strategy was a good one, he just chose the wrong guy to pair with the Rubio pick. Rubio was an excellent investment, and getting a young point guard to run the team until he gets there was a good idea... they just wiffed on Flynn's talent.

Had they just taken Curry instead this roster would be amazing. Rubio at the point, Curry at the 2, AK, Pek and Love...

(also, had they not wiffed on every pick besides Rubio this roster could be pretty good)

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:50 PM
  #486
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Also while this does look bad, and Kahn is an idiot, the article WAS written by Woj, who has pretty much had a vendetta against Kahn and wolves management for a while.

Britt Roboson on it (has covered the wolves since 1990)

Quote:
Just got back in from an afternoon of errands and saw this thing with Woj about Love. Once again I'm really glad I have a "dumb phone" and didn't waste an otherwise very pleasant day on this.

The first thing that comes to mind is the timing is lousy, and reflects very badly on Love. What, you wanted to wait until right before the return of Ricky Rubio to vent? That makes a lot of sense, and certainly adds credibility to the notion that you are doing everything possible to help this ballclub point toward a playoff berth and potential championship run down the line. Or not.

The cynic in me thinks Love got played, found himself enmeshed in one of Woj's longstanding vendettas. I don't imagine Love expected the amount of vitriol Woj would ladle into the story toward Kahn and Taylor. I'm no apologist for anyone on this team, from Taylor to the ball boys, but I'm also no fan of toxic journalism exacerbating a tenuous situation that isn't going to be resolved for two years minimum anyway.

Did Kahn make a mistake not signing Love for the five years Love wanted? Yes, he did, and I told him so the first time I interviewed him after it happened. (By the way, that egregious act occurred months ago now.) It was during that interview that Kahn told me that Rubio would be getting the same offer, four years with a three-year option, that Love received, so either Kahn is lying to me--a possibility--or Woj (and Love?) are blowing an inaccurate angle out of proportion to further Love's martyrdom.

Any way you look at it, if you enjoy basketball from the Minnesota Timberwolves, the story stinks. One could look at Woj and say, "don't blame the messenger," and I'll take that position and give it up to Woj if Love is as forthrightly pissed in subsequent interviews on the topic as Woj makes him out to be in this piece. Otherwise, I'll look at the byline and make my own determination who is merely the messenger and who went out of his way to concoct the message.

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:55 PM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
Sure, KLove is almost 100% correct in all his comments, but the fact that these 'comments' exist during the season is unbelievable. Sure, do what you want when your opt out comes up...but making these comments is a huge distraction for the team in a year they have a chance to be a playoff team.
It may not be that big of a distraction. Sure they may be asked about it but if they can't focus on basketball while fielding questions about their front office, they aren't a playoff team anyway. Kahn has improved the roster somewhat but he still needs to go and if he doesn't, I'm certain Love will follow KG's path right out the door.

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Old
12-12-2012, 12:32 AM
  #488
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Kevin Love is so ****ing talented, not disputing that but he really needs to stop incessantly *****ing and moaning to the media about the team's state of affairs. This is like the fifth time this has happened (justified or not), it makes me not want this selfish ******* on the team. Remember when we *****ed about playing time on the Olympics team? Unbelievable.

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Old
12-12-2012, 12:53 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
But we're allowed to have 2 max guys, unless they are working under some internal budget (which I don't think they are). Giving one to Love wouldn't affect Rubio.
Kevin Love does have a max contract, he just has a 4 year long max contract (with an opt-out after the 3rd year) instead of a 5 year long max contract. The newest NBA CBA ridiculously allows teams to only offer one 5 year extension of a rookie contract at a time. Giving one to Love would have taken that option off the table for Rubio.

Kahn overlooked the bird in the hand in order to save a bargaining chip for "his guy" down the road. There were rampant reports that Rubio would never slip on a Timberwolves uniform due to dissatisfaction with being drafted by them, so keeping all options on the table isn't the worst thing. Unfortunately, it's also not completely clear that Rubio will be able to command that type of contract when the time comes.

I'm not a fan of Kahn, but he was in a bit of a rock and a hard place situation due to being the first GM in position to have his core get ****ed over by the NBA's stupid new rule on rookie extensions. A team like the Thunder was able to give 2 of their guys 5 years at the max because Durant was drafted a year before Love. It was also crap timing due to the Wolves only getting an 18 game look at a Love/Rubio tandem before the deadline to extend Love.

The real mistake was the opt-out after the 3rd year, but supposedly that was an attempt to compromise with Love over not being willing to give him a 5th year.

I've gotten used to Love using his status as star who gives a good interview to make it clear to anyone who will listen that he feels no obligation to the Timberwolves, but it's a little disappointing that he's still reiterating all of that even though he has a legitimate supporting cast around him (particularly once Rubio gets back).

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12-12-2012, 01:29 AM
  #490
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Love is elite; Rubio is...who knows. Is it just me that sees this? Yes, he's a flashy and fun player to watch, but honestly do you think he will ever be on Love's level?

All this infighting, pissing and moaning - this is an extension of the pro sports scene of our beloved state.

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12-12-2012, 01:40 AM
  #491
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Statistically he'll never be at Love's level, but he's an elite floor general and maybe the only PG I've ever seen who can anchor a defense. Yes, he's flashy and fun to watch, but there's as much substance to his game as there is Love's. Time will tell if he ends up being worth a max contract, but the early returns are encouraging.

It shouldn't be Love vs. Rubio to begin with. Stupid addition to the CBA the doesn't seem to have any point other than **** over less desirable markets.

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12-12-2012, 10:09 AM
  #492
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I'm just surprised he was complaining about getting new teammates now. Last time I checked, guys like Kirilenko, Shved, Stiemsma, and Roy were a lot better than Beazley, Wes Johnson, Darko, and Ellington.

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12-12-2012, 12:47 PM
  #493
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K-Love KINDA back tracks on his comments

At least he didn't claim he was hacked.

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12-12-2012, 01:12 PM
  #494
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I still say fire Kahn.

Not solely because of Love's comments, but because Kahn is a bad GM. But Taylor gave McHale so many years as GM while we just floundered I have my doubts he'll pull the trigger.

Really the Wolves need Taylor to step down as owner and then get rid of Kahn. Kahn's an incompetent GM and Taylor is a lousy owner.

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12-12-2012, 01:16 PM
  #495
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I liked their moves this summer, but man has he been bad in the draft and with trades.

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12-12-2012, 01:27 PM
  #496
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I liked their moves this summer, but man has he been bad in the draft and with trades.
Realistically none of those moves get done without Adelman as coach, if Rambis was still our coach no player would want to play here.
So I guess Kahn gets some credit for convincing one of the best coaches to come here, but the negatives outweigh the positives for Kahn.

And all the players we acquired this summer are players that excel in the Princeton offense, so I'm willing to bet Adelman was lobbying for some of the players, considering how Kahn was convinced of Darko's greatness earlier. But that's pure speculation on my part (minus the Darko part. He actually called Darko "Mana from heaven" for the wolves).

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12-12-2012, 01:38 PM
  #497
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And all the players we acquired this summer are players that excel in the Princeton offense, so I'm willing to bet Adelman was lobbying for some of the players, considering how Kahn was convinced of Darko's greatness earlier. But that's pure speculation on my part (minus the Darko part. He actually called Darko "Mana from heaven" for the wolves).
This. I would assume Adelman had as much to do with the new guys coming in as Kahn.

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12-12-2012, 01:40 PM
  #498
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I still say fire Kahn.

Not solely because of Love's comments, but because Kahn is a bad GM. But Taylor gave McHale so many years as GM while we just floundered I have my doubts he'll pull the trigger.

Really the Wolves need Taylor to step down as owner and then get rid of Kahn. Kahn's an incompetent GM and Taylor is a lousy owner.
In order to step down as owner there needs to be a buyer. Taylor's trying to sell for a couple years, but it seems like he's having trouble finding a buyer who will commit to keeping the team in MN. Over the summer there was a rumor he'd found one that would allow him to step away over a period of 2-3 years, but that seems to have fallen apart.

I will say that after costing himself a chance to hire Dennis Lindsey (former Spurs assistant GM, current Jazz GM) due to an unwillingness to pump money into revamping the player evaluation section of the front office, he seems to have listened to Adelman on the issue, particularly when it comes to beyond the box score type statistics.

I'd prefer Kahn be fired, but despite all his faults, he's finally managed to cobble together a nice supporting cast for Love, brought in one of the better NBA coaches in recent memory, and he's done so under budget (the budget probably being the reason he was hired in the first place). I think he'll keep his job because of that, but I'd much rather see them bring in someone with some people skills and talent evaluation acumen.

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12-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by DC2600 View Post
Realistically none of those moves get done without Adelman as coach, if Rambis was still our coach no player would want to play here.
So I guess Kahn gets some credit for convincing one of the best coaches to come here, but the negatives outweigh the positives for Kahn.

And all the players we acquired this summer are players that excel in the Princeton offense, so I'm willing to bet Adelman was lobbying for some of the players, considering how Kahn was convinced of Darko's greatness earlier. But that's pure speculation on my part (minus the Darko part. He actually called Darko "Mana from heaven" for the wolves).
Adelman absolutely had input (although he technically runs the corner offense, not the Princeton offense, and he's gotten away from many of those concepts with the Wolves for a more pick and roll/pop heavy offense in order to play to the strengths of his roster). His presence is also a big reason why someone like Kirilenko had interest in coming here in the first place.

Kahn's always let his coaches have input though. Rambis was the reason Darko was traded for in the first place. Kahn asked him for a list of guys who he thought might fit the triangle before the trade deadline, and Darko was on it.

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12-12-2012, 02:14 PM
  #500
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Oh god Rambis.

Maybe Kahn would be an alright GM for a basement team, the Twolves have turned around and I'm not going to give him no credit in that. But if we want to be a perennial playoff team we need a GM that can actually handle a situation like this Love/Rubio thing with grace and the ability to keep your star players happy. Also someone who can operate a draft (but I won't blame him for Dwill, none of the players from that draft 2-10 have really shown much).

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