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Lockout Thread 2: Deal reached in early morning hours

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12-11-2012, 07:51 PM
  #226
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The perspective of who's really at fault has changed dramatically.

1) Bettman
2) Bettman and the owners
3) Everybody
4) The players
5) Fehr, which is where we're at now.

Fehr's goal is to get his paycheck, and fight for more of it in any way he can. The problem is, the players don't play, the players don't get paid. The players don't get paid, the PA doesn't make any money. The PA doesn't make any money, I have a hard time believing Fehr will make a crap ton.
His pay is in no way dictated by how long or little the lockout lasts.

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12-12-2012, 12:50 AM
  #227
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Me too. It's like a mistreated, underfed dog choosing to take the side of one of his abusive owners with regard to how he's treated.

Ugh. Bubba, I want to get back to the days where we'd argue endlessly about Bowman's merits as a GM.
This league has even taken that away

I miss those conversations. I really do.


I like what Hamrlik did

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12-12-2012, 12:59 AM
  #228
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I miss those conversations. I really do.


I like what Hamrlik did
Agree on both counts. Nice to hear a player who isn't blindly repeating after King Donald.

It is genuinely scaring me that I'm so apathetic about this lockout. I was incredibly upset in 2004... not this time.

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12-12-2012, 04:36 AM
  #229
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Agree on both counts. Nice to hear a player who isn't blindly repeating after King Donald.

It is genuinely scaring me that I'm so apathetic about this lockout. I was incredibly upset in 2004... not this time.
I just think your used to it. If my job wasn't effected by it I wouldn't be as upset either because sadly this is becoming the norm. I actually wish the owners played harder last time and went to 50-50 from the get go because I knew this was coming from the last CBA. I honestly think they are getting to an agreement that should work for most teams. Yes some like Columbus, Miami, Phoenix might have to be moved but most teams should be for profitable with increased revenue sharing and the NHL continuing to gain more revenue streams with things like the Winter Classic and etc.

The reaction to Roman is pathetic and disgusting. Other players calling him selfish is the dumbest thing in the history of mankind, the one guy not being selfish being called selfish by all the selfish people would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Then Hartnell just basically threatening him is beyond pathetic. So the guys speaks his mind, and BTW, he has been through this more times then most and he should be attacked violently for it? Then people wonder why more players aren't speaking out about the last deal and how it seemed fair for most of the NHL. They're not because they saw Fehr and his goons go after someone who has been in the league longer then most so what happens if a 2nd or 3rd year player said something. Their reaction to him has been reprehensible and disgusting and any player who said anything about him has 0 respect from me for the rest of their careers.

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12-12-2012, 05:53 AM
  #230
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Jamie Benn goes back to NA. He left Hamburg. Giroux stays in NA the next couple of weeks instead of going back to berlin.

hopefully a good sign for an agreement.

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12-12-2012, 05:58 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Jamie Benn goes back to NA. He left Hamburg. Giroux stays in NA the next couple of weeks instead of going back to berlin.

hopefully a good sign for an agreement.
Either that or those guys are very anti-German.

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12-12-2012, 10:02 AM
  #232
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1. Stop with the whole, risking life and limb thing. There are 1000's more jobs that are much more dangerous then playing in the NHL so lets not act like these guys are out there dying left and right. If the payment for the job is about risk, Firefighters, Soldiers, and Policemen should all be making 8 figures.
The 1000’s of other jobs that are more/as dangerous aren’t there for entertainment, so stop using them as a comparison. It’s a $3.3bil business and the players provide the entertainment, they should make what they make. The salary of the fire fighters, soldiers etc, is a completely different argument on it’s own.

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2. The avg NHL contract is actually higher then the avg NFL contract, so no they aren't the least paid professional athlete. Which is weird, NFL players play in a league just as dangerous, play for non guaranteed contracts, which means you don't get paid if you get cut, and play in a league that makes 3X what the NHL makes. But they don't have the same labor issues as the NHL. But it's the owners who are greedy?
Taking into account the number of games the NFL plays vs. the number of games the NHL plays, the NHL makes far less on a per game basis, AINEC.
NHL = ~30k/game
NFL = ~119k/game

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3. The players aren't more United then ever. More and more you hear rumblings of how players are upset with the fact that it seems Fehr is protecting the top 1% and not everyone. No one comes out and says anything because morons like Cole and Hartnell come out and basically threaten to kill anyone to speaks out and their families like they're some mafia..
More and more? Like who? Roman Hamrlik and Michael Neuvirth? Those are the only 2 guys I have heard say they are upset. Fehr is not protecting the 1%, he is protecting the 99% more than anybody. That’s why they are fighting for a longer limit on contract length, to protect the guys who make a lot less. If you think Fehr is just protecting the 1%, you are nuts.

Hartnell and Cole didn’t threaten anybody, you are so delusional. They said it would be hard to stand up for a guy like that, who just wants to play, doesn’t care about other players, just their own pay cheque. Hamrlik knows he isn’t going to get another 5mil contract, that’s the only reason he wants to play this year.

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The reason I am upset with the players more then the owners, and I am upset at both, is because the entire lockout didn't have to happen. 2 years ago the owners went to the players and said, the current CBA is running out and there are some issues we want to address can we talk, the players kept saying no, no, no until it was basically too late. Then once the lockout happened the players immediately go on some media rampage about how the owners are after them and the players are these poor defenseless victims in all of this. Some go on about how their treated like cattle and how it's akin to modern day slavery and that nonsense.
Entire lockout didn’t have to happen when the players said they would play without a CBA and were willing to sign a 1 year ‘no-strike’ deal. That, and the owners offered a ridiculous 43%/57% in June. If they offered 50/50 in June we would be playing hockey right now.

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The lockout happened, deal with it and get it fixed. Instead Fehr and the players refused to negotiate on any and every deal the NHL sent for months and months and basically dragged it out longer
Fehr and the players refused to negotiate? WHAT? What ****ing world are you living in? The players have negotiated off of EVERY proposal the NHL has given them, first the owners wanted a 5 year deal, players came back and offered 5, owners said they wanted 6. Players come back and offer 6, owners say they want 10. Players have agreed to 50/50 with make whole. Players agreed to contract length limit (they offered 8yrs), as opposed to no contract limit like they were offering.

PA proposes a deal, NHL walks out in 10mins because their offer was a take it or leave it.
PA trys to NEGOTIATE off of the last NHL proposal, NHL says it was take it or leave it.

Again, I am done with this. We are never going to see eye to eye on this, so we may as well quit.

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12-12-2012, 10:08 AM
  #233
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They're signing a contract this week. BOOK IT!

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12-12-2012, 10:16 AM
  #234
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They're signing a contract this week. BOOK IT!
I said that last Tuesday and got burned :angry:

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12-12-2012, 11:25 AM
  #235
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They're signing a contract this week. BOOK IT!
Is that you, Chris Botta?

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12-12-2012, 11:27 AM
  #236
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Fehr and the players refused to negotiate? WHAT? What ****ing world are you living in? .

Hmmm. Hawkaholic meet kettle. You may have noticed that most posters here donít share your peculiar perspective on the lockout. The NHLPA is not the angelic group that you like to paint them. Of course the players in the forefront are being masterfully manipulated into the group think of the Fuhrer as they continue to fight for the clauses that will have little if any impact for the average NHLíer.

That said, I too expect something significant to come out of this weeks meetings. Maybe we will see NHL hockey yet in 2012.

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12-12-2012, 11:33 AM
  #237
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Hmmm. Hawkaholic meet kettle. You may have noticed that most posters here donít share your peculiar perspective on the lockout. The NHLPA is not the angelic group that you like to paint them. Of course the players in the forefront are being masterfully manipulated into the group think of the Fuhrer as they continue to fight for the clauses that will have little if any impact for the average NHLíer.

That said, I too expect something significant to come out of this weeks meetings. Maybe we will see NHL hockey yet in 2012.
Hilarious. Ya, blame the players for the lockout they didn't create.

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12-12-2012, 11:45 AM
  #238
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Just because they didn't create it doesn't mean they haven't done everything in their power to extend it...

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12-12-2012, 11:50 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Jamie Benn goes back to NA. He left Hamburg. Giroux stays in NA the next couple of weeks instead of going back to berlin.

hopefully a good sign for an agreement.
Aren't most of Euro leagues going into a break

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12-12-2012, 11:52 AM
  #240
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Just because they didn't create it doesn't mean they haven't done everything in their power to extend it...
Everything in their power? Are you serious? What outlandish demands have they made on the owners? They've given back hundreds of millions of dollars already, they dare say they don't want 5 year max deals and the owners shut down talks and storm out of the room. No, they haven't bent over and taken it from the owners....how dare they.

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12-12-2012, 11:52 AM
  #241
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Hilarious. Ya, blame the players for the lockout they didn't create.
Oh didnít they?????. What do you call delaying talks until July that the NHL wanted to begin negotiating months, if not years prior? And then finally forwarding three off the wall proposals that read like they were written in a bar on the back of a napkin? And then sticking with that premise only putting a different face on it with each SUPPOSED new proposal? By the time they abandoned that doomed approach, it was well into the Fall. Oh yeah, they were willing to play without an agreement. I guess so; that would mean they kept their sweetheart deal for as long as they could delay the inevitable. Fehr has you, the players and some of the media hoodwinked.

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12-12-2012, 11:53 AM
  #242
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Some of the remaining issues have more to do with owners not trusting each other. Contract limits and contract variances.

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12-12-2012, 11:54 AM
  #243
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as they continue to fight for the clauses that will have little if any impact for the average NHLíer.
Those clauses do effect the average NHLer. A 5 year limit with 5% variance effects everyone. To put it in better perspective the contracts signed by Sharp, Hossa, Frolik, Carcillo, Brookbank, Crawford, Montador, Seabrook, Toews, Kane, Stalberg, and Bickell would all be illegal in the future under the NHL's new proposed rules. Now try and tell me star players are the only ones that will be effected.

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12-12-2012, 01:19 PM
  #244
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Oh didnít they?????. What do you call delaying talks until July that the NHL wanted to begin negotiating months, if not years prior? And then finally forwarding three off the wall proposals that read like they were written in a bar on the back of a napkin? And then sticking with that premise only putting a different face on it with each SUPPOSED new proposal? By the time they abandoned that doomed approach, it was well into the Fall. Oh yeah, they were willing to play without an agreement. I guess so; that would mean they kept their sweetheart deal for as long as they could delay the inevitable. Fehr has you, the players and some of the media hoodwinked.
Did you read the NHLPA proposals? Are you Jeremy Jacobs? Awesome you got a seat at the table across from Donald Fehr. What was it like?

The NHL's opening position was a 57/43 split for the owners. Thats not even a good faith offer.

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12-12-2012, 02:15 PM
  #245
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Did you read the NHLPA proposals? Are you Jeremy Jacobs? Awesome you got a seat at the table across from Donald Fehr. What was it like?

The NHL's opening position was a 57/43 split for the owners. Thats not even a good faith offer.
Everyone knew it was 50/50 owners were after

If owners propose 50% from start ,, Fehr would try to meet them at middle of 57/50 = 54 and the NHL would never agree to that

1st offer = Always high and not what you end up with

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12-12-2012, 02:18 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Everyone knew it was 50/50 owners were after

If owners propose 50% from start ,, Fehr would try to meet them at middle of 57/50 = 54 and the NHL would never agree to that

1st offer = Always high and not what you end up with
^^ yep

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12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
  #247
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Everyone knew it was 50/50 owners were after

If owners propose 50% from start ,, Fehr would try to meet them at middle of 57/50 = 54 and the NHL would never agree to that

1st offer = Always high and not what you end up with
I agree, but the owners weren't in any hurry to get a deal done. That was my point. The players 54/46 offer was every bit as serious as the owners 57/43 offer, so I don't want the poster to pretend like the players were just being ridiculous when the owners were trying to get a deal done. That simply wasn't the case.

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12-12-2012, 02:38 PM
  #248
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I agree, but the owners weren't in any hurry to get a deal done. That was my point. The players 54/46 offer was every bit as serious as the owners 57/43 offer, so I don't want the poster to pretend like the players were just being ridiculous when the owners were trying to get a deal done. That simply wasn't the case.
^
The owners spent over a year trying to begin CBA talks ,, The NHLPA refused to discuss it and didn't even put together a neg committee until end of June

And NHLPA didn't make a legit offer until this month (Every offer before this month was not at all realisitc with no true 50/50 , variations absurd levels and no linkage)

Every offer until this past one by NHLPA had no linkage and were non-starters

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12-12-2012, 03:47 PM
  #249
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^
The owners spent over a year trying to begin CBA talks ,, The NHLPA refused to discuss it and didn't even put together a neg committee until end of June

And NHLPA didn't make a legit offer until this month (Every offer before this month was not at all realisitc with no true 50/50 , variations absurd levels and no linkage)


Every offer until this past one by NHLPA had no linkage and were non-starters
Who is to say what is a legit offer and what is not? The PA offered to negotiate while a season was being played but the owners refused. Their choice was to lock them out and throw out a ridiculous initial offer. The lockout is all done to gain leverage. What did you expect from the PA?

The players wanted their existing contracts honored and the initial make whole proposals were garbage, therefore you get de-linked counters.

All of this final bickering to appease a few small market teams that will likely fold either way. The NHL will still be the only league with a true hard cap. Now they want to limit any flexibility in getting players long term contracts. The PA has agreed to 50/50... we should have a deal by now. The owners are just plain greedy at this point.


Last edited by HawksFan74: 12-12-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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12-12-2012, 03:54 PM
  #250
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Everyone knew it was 50/50 owners were after

If owners propose 50% from start ,, Fehr would try to meet them at middle of 57/50 = 54 and the NHL would never agree to that

1st offer = Always high and not what you end up with
Exactly it's called negotiating. Its how you negotiate, you don't offer your final goal in your first offer because then there is no where to go after that.

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