HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New Jersey Devils
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 New Jersey Devils (Team News, Player Discussion Part XXI)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2012, 12:18 AM
  #526
Bleedred
Pete still coach?
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 33,330
vCash: 500
I want Fayne too. If I were to get rid of him I'd want something good in return. We really won't have the cap space for what I would want in return for him after re signing Zajac, and Clarkson if we can. I am kinda bummed he only got a 2 year contract which could bring him to UFA when it ends depending on the CBA.

If you want me to shoot straight I just want Tallinder gone even if we just get a D'Agostini, or Mason Raymond player. Someone more than Poni as we got Poni for an AHL D man, and a pick.

I don't want Fayne gone either, but I don't know why you gotta jump at me as if I want him to leave. I just think anything is possible. I don't think anyone but Larsson is off limits. People said not a chance at the possibility Arnott, and Sykora would be traded a year before they were too.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 08:24 AM
  #527
internetdotcom
11 + 15 + 19 = 666
 
internetdotcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Capital O
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,612
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to internetdotcom Send a message via Yahoo to internetdotcom
Interesting scenario re: Devils' forfeited 1st rounder

Hey Devils fans, Sens fan coming in peace.

From what I'm told, the NHL Draft is part of the CBA, meaning that if no CBA is signed before the 2013 draft, it would not happen, and all 2013 draft eligible prospects would be available in the 2014 draft (assuming it happens).

As far as I can recall, as part of the NHL's punishment for the Kovalchuk contract attempted cap circumvention, the Devils have to forfeit a first rounder in one of the drafts from 2011 to 2014 inclusively. Obviously only 2013 and 2014 remain. So if the 2013 draft doesn't happen (i.e. no CBA signed by then), then they would effectively lose 2 first rounders, as next year's draft would essentially be 2 drafts in 1.

Am I correct in this line of thinking? If so, I imagine Devils fans are every bit as anxious to get a CBA signed as the rest of us.

internetdotcom is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 08:31 AM
  #528
Richer's Ghost
Moderator
Pickle Pops?
 
Richer's Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: photoshop labor camp
Country: United States
Posts: 47,672
vCash: 425
Regardless of WHO is in the pool (2 years worth of eligible players or 1) there is still only 1 pick forfeited so NO, it is not like losing 2 picks.

Math still be math regardless of pool size.

__________________

Ball pits are just toilets filled with brightly colored balls instead of water.
Richer's Ghost is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 08:36 AM
  #529
MartyOwns
NYRB!!!2013********33333
 
MartyOwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 10,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Hey Devils fans, Sens fan coming in peace.

From what I'm told, the NHL Draft is part of the CBA, meaning that if no CBA is signed before the 2013 draft, it would not happen, and all 2013 draft eligible prospects would be available in the 2014 draft (assuming it happens).

As far as I can recall, as part of the NHL's punishment for the Kovalchuk contract attempted cap circumvention, the Devils have to forfeit a first rounder in one of the drafts from 2011 to 2014 inclusively. Obviously only 2013 and 2014 remain. So if the 2013 draft doesn't happen (i.e. no CBA signed by then), then they would effectively lose 2 first rounders, as next year's draft would essentially be 2 drafts in 1.

Am I correct in this line of thinking? If so, I imagine Devils fans are every bit as anxious to get a CBA signed as the rest of us.
we're secretly hoping that penalty is filed under "horse****" and be dissolved

MartyOwns is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 09:03 AM
  #530
DKQ
Generic User Title
 
DKQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Press Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,127
vCash: 500
I would hope that in such a scenario they extend the deadline by a year so that the Devils aren't forced into missing out on two consecutive first round picks. It would also be interesting to see how they handled the picks that have already been traded (NYR and LAK's first round picks for example)

DKQ is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #531
internetdotcom
11 + 15 + 19 = 666
 
internetdotcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Capital O
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,612
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to internetdotcom Send a message via Yahoo to internetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Regardless of WHO is in the pool (2 years worth of eligible players or 1) there is still only 1 pick forfeited so NO, it is not like losing 2 picks.

Math still be math regardless of pool size.
True, but instead of getting one pick from player pool A and no picks from player pool B, you would be getting no picks of player pool (A+B) (sort of, since you wouldn't pick until the 2nd round, there may be a player in that spot that would have been around at your 1st pick in 2013 or 2014 anyway, but no guarantee). I realize this may sound like rambling, but makes sense to me. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
we're secretly hoping that penalty is filed under "horse****" and be dissolved
Now how would that be fair?

internetdotcom is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:01 AM
  #532
internetdotcom
11 + 15 + 19 = 666
 
internetdotcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Capital O
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,612
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to internetdotcom Send a message via Yahoo to internetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
It would also be interesting to see how they handled the picks that have already been traded (NYR and LAK's first round picks for example)
I would assume a lottery, either exactly like after the last lockout, or very close to that kind of format.

internetdotcom is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:12 AM
  #533
onefatsurfer
I speak in code
 
onefatsurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jersey Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Now how would that be fair?
Considering that the penalty is ******** anyway, I think it would be entirely fair.

onefatsurfer is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:16 AM
  #534
MartyOwns
NYRB!!!2013********33333
 
MartyOwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 10,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post


Now how would that be fair?
fairness went out the window upon the initial penalty. completely unprecedented BS move by the league. but, I donít want to go down that road again

MartyOwns is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:56 AM
  #535
GameSeven
ἢ τὰς ἢ ἐπὶ τὰς
 
GameSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Hey Devils fans, Sens fan coming in peace.

From what I'm told, the NHL Draft is part of the CBA, meaning that if no CBA is signed before the 2013 draft, it would not happen, and all 2013 draft eligible prospects would be available in the 2014 draft (assuming it happens).

As far as I can recall, as part of the NHL's punishment for the Kovalchuk contract attempted cap circumvention, the Devils have to forfeit a first rounder in one of the drafts from 2011 to 2014 inclusively. Obviously only 2013 and 2014 remain. So if the 2013 draft doesn't happen (i.e. no CBA signed by then), then they would effectively lose 2 first rounders, as next year's draft would essentially be 2 drafts in 1.

Am I correct in this line of thinking? If so, I imagine Devils fans are every bit as anxious to get a CBA signed as the rest of us.

GameSeven is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:20 AM
  #536
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
 
Feed Me A Stray Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,532
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Feed Me A Stray Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Hey Devils fans, Sens fan coming in peace.

From what I'm told, the NHL Draft is part of the CBA, meaning that if no CBA is signed before the 2013 draft, it would not happen, and all 2013 draft eligible prospects would be available in the 2014 draft (assuming it happens).

As far as I can recall, as part of the NHL's punishment for the Kovalchuk contract attempted cap circumvention, the Devils have to forfeit a first rounder in one of the drafts from 2011 to 2014 inclusively. Obviously only 2013 and 2014 remain. So if the 2013 draft doesn't happen (i.e. no CBA signed by then), then they would effectively lose 2 first rounders, as next year's draft would essentially be 2 drafts in 1.

Am I correct in this line of thinking? If so, I imagine Devils fans are every bit as anxious to get a CBA signed as the rest of us.
Every team in the NHL will be losing their 2013 first round pick, not just the Devils.

And if the 2014 draft will have, in effect, two first rounds, then the Devils will still have a defacto first rounder with their second round pick that year.

Feed Me A Stray Cat is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:24 AM
  #537
Cowbell232
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,086
vCash: 500
I think the Devils would appeal, based on the fact that they were basically screwed out of the rightful amount of time to decide when to waive a pick.

However, if they're picking in the 29th spot based on the SCF appearance, it makes sense to forfeit that first rounder regardless of the rest of the situation...

My big question is: Does Newark get screwed out of the draft somehow?

__________________
"Why I'll be a Devil forever [...] two words. Trust and respect." - Mr. Pat Burns
"I learned not to question Cowbell's willingness to ban." - Brian Boyle
Cowbell232 is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:29 AM
  #538
manilaNJ
Optimism: Unwavering
 
manilaNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,519
vCash: 500
Presumably.
Ottawa essentially got screwed out of it, since it was just held at a hotel.

But they got the draft back in 2008 and the ASG in 2012, so it'll be made up for in time.

manilaNJ is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 12:24 PM
  #539
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
 
CerebralGenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSeven View Post


But really, why are we losing 2 first round picks when we lose 1 pick? Comical.

CerebralGenesis is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 12:29 PM
  #540
apice3*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middletown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
there would be 30 1st round picks from pool A and 30 1st round picks from pool B. If the draft doesnt happen, you effectively have 60 first round picks in pool B. We forfeit one pick and pick up a 1st round talent in the 2nd round. We lose our first rounder and thats it.

Also, if the 2013 draft doesnt happen, the devils would likely get the option to forfeit a 2015 pick. The penalty was to forfeit a pick in one of the next four drafts. I dont think it mentioned specific years and if the 2013 draft never exists, then the 4 year window extends

apice3* is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 12:46 PM
  #541
Richer's Ghost
Moderator
Pickle Pops?
 
Richer's Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: photoshop labor camp
Country: United States
Posts: 47,672
vCash: 425
2-1=1 still?

I'll be damned.

Richer's Ghost is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 01:10 PM
  #542
Bleedred
Pete still coach?
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 33,330
vCash: 500
They should just give us back the draft pick if they're only gonna punish these contracts in the next CBA.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:05 PM
  #543
AirheadPete
G-Dub
 
AirheadPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
They should just give us back the draft pick if they're only gonna punish these contracts in the next CBA.
agree, it would be absolutely ludacris if they were punished what was thrown at them last CBA plus whatever consequences come from the new one.

AirheadPete is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:10 PM
  #544
manilaNJ
Optimism: Unwavering
 
manilaNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,519
vCash: 500
The 3rd round pick + the $3million that's already been paid out is already well more punishment than deserved - especially considering the shenanigans that followed.

It'd be outrageous if a new CBA came back with another punishment for that contract.

manilaNJ is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:13 PM
  #545
Bleedred
Pete still coach?
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 33,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
The 3rd round pick + the $3million that's already been paid out is already well more punishment than deserved - especially considering the shenanigans that followed.

It'd be outrageous if a new CBA came back with another punishment for that contract.
Not just that contract, but they were talking about any player with a contract over 7 years it will go against the cap even if they retire. That's hard to imagine since almost half the teams in the league have one that long.

In our division every team has one. Rangers(Richards) Islanders(Dipietro) Penguins(Crosby) Flyers(Bryzgalov) We have Kovy. All of these players minus Crosby will be at least 40 when their contracts expire aside from Crosby. Crosby hasn't exactly stayed healthy though, and could be questionable in another 10 years.

Bleedred is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:53 PM
  #546
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
 
Feed Me A Stray Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,532
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Feed Me A Stray Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Not just that contract, but they were talking about any player with a contract over 7 years it will go against the cap even if they retire. That's hard to imagine since almost half the teams in the league have one that long.

In our division every team has one. Rangers(Richards) Islanders(Dipietro) Penguins(Crosby) Flyers(Bryzgalov) We have Kovy. All of these players minus Crosby will be at least 40 when their contracts expire aside from Crosby. Crosby hasn't exactly stayed healthy though, and could be questionable in another 10 years.
Not sure how they can justify retroactively applying that to deals signed before the new CBA.

Feed Me A Stray Cat is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:55 PM
  #547
apice3*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middletown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
My big question is: Does Newark get screwed out of the draft somehow?
Isn't that why we're locked out in the first place?

apice3* is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 03:58 PM
  #548
apice3*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middletown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Not sure how they can justify retroactively applying that to deals signed before the new CBA.
Yeah that's not really fair. Things should be grandfathered in. You can't penalize a team for operating under rules that were legal at the time.

apice3* is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 04:01 PM
  #549
manilaNJ
Optimism: Unwavering
 
manilaNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,519
vCash: 500
It hasn't popped up much in recent talks, but I remember some of the early November meetings have some rumblings of retroactively going after backdiving deals.

If that were the case, it'd be insane not to make an exception for Kovalchuk's.

manilaNJ is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 04:05 PM
  #550
Devils731
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Yeah that's not really fair. Things should be grandfathered in. You can't penalize a team for operating under rules that were legal at the time.
I think the NHL would feel like those teams need to be "punished" to bring back fairness. Those long term deals unjustly enrich teams in regards to the cap in the short term and carry no long term cap penalties, other teams who couldn't afford to do that carry a competitive disadvantage.

Creating a rule to properly account for those super long term, cap manipulative deal brings balance and fairness back to those deals. I believe it would be looked at as a proper correction, and not a penalty.

Devils731 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.