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Off-Season Madness the 9th: Tom Cheek Memorial Edition

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:29 PM
  #926
thatshype
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I have mixed feelings about true platooning, that is sitting a guy no matter what based on what arm the starting pitcher throws with. The stats are always season-averages, and if a guy is swinging the bat well you don't take away his confidence by sitting him against a LHP. I'm not referring to Lind or Rasmus or anybody in particular, I'm just talking about in general circumstances.


Additionally, if the whole lineup is doing their job, the starting pitcher should really be in there for 6IPs max. Beyond that, when the game is on the line, it's a crapshoot of who you're gonna face in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. When the game is on the line, I want my best hitters in the lineup....not just who hits LHP better.

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12-12-2012, 01:30 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
I have mixed feelings about true platooning, that is sitting a guy no matter what based on what arm the starting pitcher throws with. The stats are always season-averages, and if a guy is swinging the bat well you don't take away his confidence by sitting him against a LHP. I'm not referring to Lind or Rasmus or anybody in particular, I'm just talking about in general circumstances.


Additionally, if the whole lineup is doing their job, the starting pitcher should really be in there for 6IPs max. Beyond that, when the game is on the line, it's a crapshoot of who you're gonna face in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. When the game is on the line, I want my best hitters in the lineup....not just who hits LHP better.
The funny thing is that splits are usually highly skewed because people only look at LHP and RHP and ignore that Lind faces a lot of situational lefties (which he shouldn't).

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12-12-2012, 01:34 PM
  #928
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Now that I look at it, Baseball Reference allows you to split by starter/reliever.

Lind's career splits are

.836OPS against RHP
.607OPS against LHP

but

.799OPS against Righty Starter
.696OPS against Lefty Starter

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Old
12-12-2012, 01:43 PM
  #929
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The piggyback system would end after the All Star break, enabling Syndergaard to become even more focused and find even more success. In the second half of the season, he started 12 of his 13 games and went 5-3 with a 1.65 ERA with 65 strikeouts and 16 walks. He would finish 2012 with a 8-5 record and a 2.60 ERA, recording 122 strikeouts and 31 walks in over 103 innings of work. His 122 strikeouts led all Lugnuts pitchers and was third in the Midwest League.

The star prospect credits a lot of his success to his pitch repertoire, “I use a fastball, change-up, curveball, and I’m working on a slider,” he said. “My fastball is going really well, I am able to command it on both sides of the plate. I feel my change-up is my second best pitch. I throw that whenever I need to get back into a pitchers count. My curveball is coming out nicely. The addition of my slider is maintaining the velocity on my curveball. My curveball was lacking velocity and arm strength before adding the slider.”

He added, “I think I have topped my fastball out at 99 mph, but it usually sits around 94-95 mph.”

Lansing Lugnuts Pitching Coach Vince Horsman added, “Noah is an ugly son of a buck. The maturation of Noah Syndergaard from a thrower to a pitcher has far exceeded my expectations for this year. He’s starting to fully understand how to be successful and not one dimensional. This was definitely witnessed in his last start. In fact, it was probably the most dominating start by any of our pitchers [all] year.

“At the beginning of the season, Noah was a fastball, change-up guy. We implemented the curveball into his game and that was okay, but then around the halfway point we added a slider and the slider helped his curveball. So developing one pitch turned into two pitches so now he has a very good curveball and a very good slider to compliment his change-up.

“Thus, he has now gone from a two-pitch pitcher to a four-pitch pitcher. This was unexpected. I can’t wait to see what else the future has in store for him.”

http://jaysprospects.com/2012/12/12/...tter-for-2013/

Good stuff on Syndergaard.

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12-12-2012, 01:49 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
The piggyback system would end after the All Star break, enabling Syndergaard to become even more focused and find even more success. In the second half of the season, he started 12 of his 13 games and went 5-3 with a 1.65 ERA with 65 strikeouts and 16 walks. He would finish 2012 with a 8-5 record and a 2.60 ERA, recording 122 strikeouts and 31 walks in over 103 innings of work. His 122 strikeouts led all Lugnuts pitchers and was third in the Midwest League.

The star prospect credits a lot of his success to his pitch repertoire, “I use a fastball, change-up, curveball, and I’m working on a slider,” he said. “My fastball is going really well, I am able to command it on both sides of the plate. I feel my change-up is my second best pitch. I throw that whenever I need to get back into a pitchers count. My curveball is coming out nicely. The addition of my slider is maintaining the velocity on my curveball. My curveball was lacking velocity and arm strength before adding the slider.”

He added, “I think I have topped my fastball out at 99 mph, but it usually sits around 94-95 mph.”

Lansing Lugnuts Pitching Coach Vince Horsman added, “Noah is an ugly son of a buck. The maturation of Noah Syndergaard from a thrower to a pitcher has far exceeded my expectations for this year. He’s starting to fully understand how to be successful and not one dimensional. This was definitely witnessed in his last start. In fact, it was probably the most dominating start by any of our pitchers [all] year.

“At the beginning of the season, Noah was a fastball, change-up guy. We implemented the curveball into his game and that was okay, but then around the halfway point we added a slider and the slider helped his curveball. So developing one pitch turned into two pitches so now he has a very good curveball and a very good slider to compliment his change-up.

“Thus, he has now gone from a two-pitch pitcher to a four-pitch pitcher. This was unexpected. I can’t wait to see what else the future has in store for him.”

http://jaysprospects.com/2012/12/12/...tter-for-2013/

Good stuff on Syndergaard.
Sounds like he is developing nicely. Fastball, Slider, Curveball, and Changeup in his arsenal. Fastball averaging 94-95. Sounds like JJ .

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12-12-2012, 02:21 PM
  #931
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Thanks for that Nasty Nazem!

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12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
  #932
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The thing about platooning rasmus is that he'll never learn to hit left handed pitching. Not sure thats something i want to do to a 25-26 year old player oozing with potential

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12-12-2012, 03:36 PM
  #933
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braves - bonifacio ?

dec 5:
Although he indicated last night that Emilio Bonifacio could be available, David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal Constitution tweets today that the Blue Jays don't want to move him, "at least not yet."
dec 6:
The Braves have interest in Emilio Bonifacio and have learned that he could be available.
dec 7:
Toronto is speaking with the Mets about R.A. Dickey.
The club could make Emilio Bonifacio available.
dec12:
The Braves have already made one notable trade this offseason (Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden), and Dave O'Brien of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution says they are still involved in multiple trade talks (Twitter links). Emilio Bonifacio and Dexter Fowler are believed to be among their targets.

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12-12-2012, 03:43 PM
  #934
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AA said he wouldn't do the trade without bonafacio... Why would he trade him?

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12-12-2012, 04:10 PM
  #935
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AA said he wouldn't do the trade without bonafacio... Why would he trade him?
the return would have to be to much to turn down.

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12-12-2012, 04:11 PM
  #936
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AA said he wouldn't do the trade without bonafacio... Why would he trade him?
Probably for this reason exactly. There's obviously interest in him

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:13 PM
  #937
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Rangers claim Eli Whiteside, lol.

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12-12-2012, 04:21 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
AA said he wouldn't do the trade without bonafacio... Why would he trade him?
He wouldn't but that doesn't mean other teams aren't interested in trading for him.

Jays won't get much for a utility player and they like his ability to play premium position(s), his speed and fill in an everyday spot adequately for a bit. It doesn't make much sense to trade him right now and they likely won't.

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12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
  #939
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Rangers claim Eli Whiteside, lol.
Meh. I think Bobby Wilson is still available. They're basically just looking for a vet guy they can stick in Buffalo to back up d'Arnaud. Not that big of a piece to need to replace

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12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
  #940
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Probably for this reason exactly. There's obviously interest in him
Yep. Hes good in the club house, versatile off the bench, shown he can hit and be a solid contributor. I doubt AA trades him, if anything I could see him being a big surprise and kicking someone, maybe like Rasmus if he cant get his bat going, out of the starting lineup.

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12-12-2012, 04:26 PM
  #941
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Sounds like he is developing nicely. Fastball, Slider, Curveball, and Changeup in his arsenal. Fastball averaging 94-95. Sounds like JJ .
From the scouting reports I've read, I thought the curve has the potential to be his 2nd best pitch and it was at best below average (with room for development). Whereas the change doesn't project to be as good? From the sounds of it, the secondary offerings need a ton of development.

His fastball is SO good though that he'll AT LEAST make the majors on that one pitch.

Hopefully his secondary stuff catches up though. If it does, he could be scary good.

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12-12-2012, 04:29 PM
  #942
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I pointed this out a little while ago. If the Braves want Bonifacio, I'd have to think we're targeting one of Venters/Maholm. In that scenario I don't see something being worked out unless the deal gets bigger.

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
  #943
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From the scouting reports I've read, I thought the curve has the potential to be his 2nd best pitch and it was at best below average (with room for development). Whereas the change doesn't project to be as good? From the sounds of it, the secondary offerings need a ton of development.

His fastball is SO good though that he'll AT LEAST make the majors on that one pitch.

Hopefully his secondary stuff catches up though. If it does, he could be scary good.
The article states he thinks his Changeup is his second best, he says he uses it to get back in the count when he falls behind.

He's still got another two seasons or so till we will see him, but sounds like he is developing nicely. That much time to grow those two pitches to the same level as his change up and fastball and he could be deadly.

Seems like he wroks pretty hard too. Only took a week off before he started his training.

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12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
  #944
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That Bonifacio to the Braves rumour has been floating for awhile.
It actually makes some sense in terms of them really wanting a guy who can play CF and they have a abundance of young starters (Minor, Teheran, Delgado etc). AA did say he wanted to aquire a pitcher with options so maybe those are the type of guys he was talking about. I could get behind a Bonifacio+prospect for Teheran deal but not sure the Braves do that. Apparently the reason they really want him is because Freddi Gonzalez is extremely high on him from his time in Miami.

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12-12-2012, 04:41 PM
  #945
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The article states he thinks his Changeup is his second best, he says he uses it to get back in the count when he falls behind.

He's still got another two seasons or so till we will see him, but sounds like he is developing nicely. That much time to grow those two pitches to the same level as his change up and fastball and he could be deadly.

Seems like he wroks pretty hard too. Only took a week off before he started his training.
Sounded to me like a "get me over" kind of pitch (the change that is).

I just read another scouting report, projects the fastball as a plus-plus pitch (both 2 seamer and 4 seamer), as well as the change and curve projecting to be above average pitches. But it doesn't even make mention of a slider (the article linked in the thread mentioned it is new).

Do the Jays still put emphasis on developing a changeup? Or is that something that they've moved on from?

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12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
  #946
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AA in a great position of having to deal from a position of strength.

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12-12-2012, 04:51 PM
  #947
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I pointed this out a little while ago. If the Braves want Bonifacio, I'd have to think we're targeting one of Venters/Maholm. In that scenario I don't see something being worked out unless the deal gets bigger.
Either of those make sense for us. Maholm would be my first guess to round out the bottom of the rotation, but Venters would really give us that solid BP. We know AA would definitely push to make sure he got quality back for a guy like Boni. What would we have to add would be the question though

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12-12-2012, 04:56 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
From the scouting reports I've read, I thought the curve has the potential to be his 2nd best pitch and it was at best below average (with room for development). Whereas the change doesn't project to be as good? From the sounds of it, the secondary offerings need a ton of development.

His fastball is SO good though that he'll AT LEAST make the majors on that one pitch.

Hopefully his secondary stuff catches up though. If it does, he could be scary good.
Change-up is a good pitch, projected as potetially plus. His curveball is fringy, because the velocity isn't good on it and its like this looping curveball. He started throwing a slider and if he can get one of his breaking pitches to be average, he'll be pretty good with the fastball/change-up combo.

He is still super young and was very raw when drafted and has made a lot of progress so far.

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12-12-2012, 05:04 PM
  #949
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That Bonifacio to the Braves rumour has been floating for awhile.
It actually makes some sense in terms of them really wanting a guy who can play CF and they have a abundance of young starters (Minor, Teheran, Delgado etc). AA did say he wanted to aquire a pitcher with options so maybe those are the type of guys he was talking about. I could get behind a Bonifacio+prospect for Teheran deal but not sure the Braves do that. Apparently the reason they really want him is because Freddi Gonzalez is extremely high on him from his time in Miami.
We would have to add, but I'd be open for a Teheran trade (if we got him for Boni + something not to significant thatd be sweet). They were supposedly adjusting his delivery to prevent injuries to his arm, which caused his season to be what it was last year. He'd likely start in AAA, but would give us that depth if we need it (and likely that #5 at some point).

Side note, if AA turned that package sent to Miami into Beurhle, Reyes, JJ, Buck and Teheran, he'd be looking pretty good.


Last edited by calcal798: 12-12-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old
12-12-2012, 05:14 PM
  #950
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Do the Jays still put emphasis on developing a changeup? Or is that something that they've moved on from?
Not sure why they would? (...move on from the changeup, that is.) Seems to me (as an ignorant lay-person) that as long as your starter has two other pitches behind their fastball, he can adequately disguise the release, and they introduce variability in either the X (slider), Y (curve) or Z-axis (changeup), then it shouldn't really matter what pitches they are.

I would think the onus is on the coaching staff to help the prospect develop the pitches that will give them the best stuff, the most control, the most deceptive release, and the biggest delta (in whichever axis). Those are going to vary from pitcher to pitcher based on their ability and mechanics. So is there a reason the Jays' coaches would exclude one of those options as a possibility?

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