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Lockout Thread 2: Deal reached in early morning hours

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12-12-2012, 04:01 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Who is to say what is a legit offer and what is not? The PA offered to negotiate while a season was being played but the owners refused. Their choice was to lock them out and throw out a ridiculous initial offer. The lockout is all done to gain leverage. What did you expect from the PA?

The players wanted their existing contracts honored and the initial make whole proposals were garbage, therefore you get de-linked counters.

All of this final bickering to appease a few small market teams that will likely fold either way. The NHL will still be the only league with a true hard cap. Now they want to limit any flexibility in getting players long term contracts. The PA has agreed to 50/50... we should have a deal by now. The owners are just plain greedy at this point.

SHOCKING!

The players offered to continue to play if they continued to get paid the ridiculously high % they where receiving for the previous years after refusing to not negotiate until then.

If the owners did that Fehr and the PA would have no desire to negotiate because the players where getting exactly what they want so why change it.

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12-12-2012, 04:06 PM
  #252
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Mediation and discussion today planned as a 1-day exercise. If subsequent meeting is called for tomorrow that will be a good thing
...By good thing, I don't mean an indication a deal is imminent. Going into the day it didn't sound like NHL was willing to be flexible.



Those players....at it again! Just totally screwing everything up.

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12-12-2012, 04:14 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
SHOCKING!

The players offered to continue to play if they continued to get paid the ridiculously high % they where receiving for the previous years after refusing to not negotiate until then.


If the owners did that Fehr and the PA would have no desire to negotiate because the players where getting exactly what they want so why change it.
Purely your opinion. You guys that side with the owners act you like you own the team and it hits your bottom line. It doesn't and they don't give a **** about the average fan, neither do the players. No one forced owners to hand out huge contracts.

You have players on what side that are greedy and don't know how well they got it. You have owners that don't know how the hell to run their respective business and their sole negotiating tactic is work stoppages. Not to mention awarding franchises for short term gains, not the long term success of the league and then using them as examples to take back.

The lost an entire season to get their hard cap and the best deal possible. The fact that it comes to this again in very few years is truly ****ed up for everyone involved.

What pisses me off is the owners take it or leave it approach. We won't talk to you unless you work off the frame work of our deal. Weeks pass, they end up talking to the PA anyways. They storm out, week passes, they come back. The hold presser last Friday, storm out and there is nothing to talk about. Ton of wasted time here posturing. You work at it until it gets done.

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12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
  #254
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Purely your opinion. You guys that side with the owners act you like you own the team and it hits your bottom line. It doesn't and they don't give a **** about the average fan, neither do the players. No one forced owners to hand out huge contracts.

You have players on what side that are greedy and don't know how well they got it. You have owners that don't know how the hell to run their respective business and their sole negotiating tactic is work stoppages. Not to mention awarding franchises for short term gains, not the long term success of the league and then using them as examples to take back.

The lost an entire season to get their hard cap and the best deal possible. The fact that it comes to this again in very few years is truly ****ed up for everyone involved.

Playing this year would have meant keeping the current CBA numbers in place and then negotiating off of that.

Again fact of the matter is the owners wanted to negotiate 2 years ago but the players kept refusing.

No I am not an owner but I see the forest through the trees. If you want a healthy and productive league then you need healthy and productive teams. When Forbes reports that 13 teams are losing money and several of them in the $10s of millions then your league isn't healthy and things need to change.

The players should realize this and offer what they can do to help. They're fighting for their last dollar but failing to realize that if they go their way the NHL would be in major trouble in a few years. I don't know if it's just that they are too naive to see that or if they just don't care.

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12-12-2012, 04:25 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Playing this year would have meant keeping the current CBA numbers in place and then negotiating off of that.

Again fact of the matter is the owners wanted to negotiate 2 years ago but the players kept refusing.

No I am not an owner but I see the forest through the trees. If you want a healthy and productive league then you need healthy and productive teams. When Forbes reports that 13 teams are losing money and several of them in the $10s of millions then your league isn't healthy and things need to change.

The players should realize this and offer what they can do to help. They're fighting for their last dollar but failing to realize that if they go their way the NHL would be in major trouble in a few years. I don't know if it's just that they are too naive to see that or if they just don't care.
And who ran those teams into the ground? The owners right? Who set up the system where the league is failing? The owners right? Who authorized them to put teams in Phoenix and Tampa? The owners right? I'm sure if the players just give back millions of dollars they'll fix it this time just like they promised in 2005.

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12-12-2012, 04:29 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Playing this year would have meant keeping the current CBA numbers in place and then negotiating off of that.

Again fact of the matter is the owners wanted to negotiate 2 years ago but the players kept refusing.

No I am not an owner but I see the forest through the trees. If you want a healthy and productive league then you need healthy and productive teams. When Forbes reports that 13 teams are losing money and several of them in the $10s of millions then your league isn't healthy and things need to change.

The players should realize this and offer what they can do to help. They're fighting for their last dollar but failing to realize that if they go their way the NHL would be in major trouble in a few years. I don't know if it's just that they are too naive to see that or if they just don't care.
The fact that you cite this article is quite hilarious. I won't even bother to educate you in all the errors as it has been discussed numerous times.

I do believe some teams are struggling but that's not the players fault. It's the owners. They run the teams, they agreed to the previous CBA. They have made some very BAD decisions obviously. Now we all get to pay for their ignorance. How can you not blame the owners for losing a season to get a deal that makes so many teams lose money a few years later? Seems like some of them suck at what they're doing or there is a bit of creative accounting going on. There is a little bit of both.

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12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
  #257
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The fact that you cite this article is quite hilarious. I won't even bother to educate you in all the errors as it has been discussed numerous times.

I do believe some teams are struggling but that's not the players fault. It's the owners. They run the teams, they agreed to the previous CBA. They have made some very BAD decisions obviously. Now we all get to pay for their ignorance. How can you not blame the owners for losing a season to get a deal that makes so many teams lose money a few years later? Seems like some of them suck at what they're doing or there is a bit of creative accounting going on.
Right, Rocky Wirtz is claiming the freaking Blackhawks are losing money. Does anyone believe that?

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12-12-2012, 04:34 PM
  #258
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Right, Rocky Wirtz is claiming the freaking Blackhawks are losing money. Does anyone believe that?
I'm sure they are when you roll the proceeds from concessions and a ton of other stuff through another business. But yeah, some of the fault in that Forbes article. I do think they were when they were drawing less than 9k a night but that again was an owner created situation.

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12-12-2012, 04:36 PM
  #259
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So the NHL is again refusing to negotiate, said their last offer is still take it or leave it. But people will still find a way to tell us that its the PA who isn't negotiating.

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12-12-2012, 04:37 PM
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So the NHL is again refusing to negotiate, said their last offer is still take it or leave it. But people will still find a way to tell us that its the PA who isn't negotiating.
Is the PA's last offer really that bad? I mean really? The NHL does not negotiate, it tables an offer and then leaves when it's not accepted.

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12-12-2012, 04:40 PM
  #261
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Fact is teams are losing money and some of them it's not because of bad leadership. When the rules state that no matter what you have to pay the players X amount and that amount is 57% of what the league makes it's bad because some teams can't even make the cap floor in revenue.

Those same teams have no chance to sign any player to try an increase attendance and revenue because they can't sign one of those 13 year deal back diving contracts that the top players now require.

There is the lockout in a nutshell. Some teams can't opperate in the current market so the market needs to change. Part of that market is players salaries and contracts.

Part of that market is revenue sharing and new revenue streams.

Both sides have a part to play in it.

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12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Fact is teams are losing money and some of them it's not because of bad leadership. When the rules state that no matter what you have to pay the players X amount and that amount is 57% of what the league makes it's bad because some teams can't even make the cap floor in revenue.

Those same teams have no chance to sign any player to try an increase attendance and revenue because they can't sign one of those 13 year deal back diving contracts that the top players now require.

There is the lockout in a nutshell. Some teams can't opperate in the current market so the market needs to change. Part of that market is players salaries and contracts.

Part of that market is revenue sharing and new revenue streams.

Both sides have a part to play in it.
Who signed that deal? The owners signed that deal and lost a season to get it! Part of this is the owners trying to replicate other recent deals in the NBA & NFL. Except the NHL has a hard cap in place. The revenue sharing was proposed by the PA which I find quite interesting.

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12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
SHOCKING!

The players offered to continue to play if they continued to get paid the ridiculously high % they where receiving for the previous years after refusing to not negotiate until then.

If the owners did that Fehr and the PA would have no desire to negotiate because the players where getting exactly what they want so why change it.
They could of worked out something that would of been retroactive to the beginning of the season. Pay players their contracts, but once the new CBA is signed, all the money that was over paid would go into escrow. So if players would be making 57% and the new CBA was 50% then that escrow payment would go to the owners at the end of the year. It wouldn't have been that difficult to figure out, but it is Bettman so who knows.

And in the end, the owners will basically be paying the players their contracts with this make whole payment any way, so your argument is pretty weak, like usual.

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12-12-2012, 04:45 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Fact is teams are losing money and some of them it's not because of bad leadership. When the rules state that no matter what you have to pay the players X amount and that amount is 57% of what the league makes it's bad because some teams can't even make the cap floor in revenue.

Those same teams have no chance to sign any player to try an increase attendance and revenue because they can't sign one of those 13 year deal back diving contracts that the top players now require.

There is the lockout in a nutshell. Some teams can't opperate in the current market so the market needs to change. Part of that market is players salaries and contracts.

Part of that market is revenue sharing and new revenue streams.

Both sides have a part to play in it.
Which is why the players have agreed to give back hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries.

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12-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #265
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Which is why the players have agreed to give back hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries.
Que SPT saying "quit saying the players gave back X amount of $$ based off of the old CBA, they haven't given anything" as he talks about how teams are losing money based off of the old CBA.

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12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #266
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No progress today. No new talks scheduled.

Both sides can go to hell.

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12-12-2012, 04:57 PM
  #267
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No progress today. No new talks scheduled.

Both sides can go to hell.
Maybe as time passes more of the board will see the light and echo this instead of wasting their time continuing to defend one pathetic, greedy side or the other.

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12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
  #268
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Maybe as time passes more of the board will see the light and echo this instead of wasting their time continuing to defend one pathetic, greedy side or the other.
..what the hell would we talk about then?

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12-12-2012, 05:13 PM
  #269
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Players were asked by a mediator today if they wanted to accept the last NHL offer.

Brenden Morrison, who is an aging, non-star player, with no NHL contract said it was an easy decision amongst ALL players. No.

This is clearly Fehrs decision, and he is clearly catering to the 1% of star players, right?

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12-12-2012, 05:27 PM
  #270
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No progress today. No new talks scheduled.

Both sides can go to hell.
Huh, they are still there.

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12-12-2012, 05:42 PM
  #271
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Huh, they are still there.
Yeah, looks like the early tweets were false info.

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12-12-2012, 05:45 PM
  #272
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"The board has to approve whatever is presented to us. We unanimously went against taking it to a vote." Jamal Mayers, on the league's last offer.
But.... but... I thought it was all Fehr.

Apparently the PA is working on an offer. How hard is it to cut the contract rights difference down the middle. I mean really.

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12-12-2012, 05:48 PM
  #273
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Que SPT saying "quit saying the players gave back X amount of $$ based off of the old CBA, they haven't given anything" as he talks about how teams are losing money based off of the old CBA.
WHAT?

Yes the owners where losing money in the old CBA so there is going to be a new one.

The $ the players keep talking about losing is if the old CBA and HRR continued and continued to grow at the same rate.

I don't get how it's that hard to understand.

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12-12-2012, 05:50 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Players were asked by a mediator today if they wanted to accept the last NHL offer.

Brenden Morrison, who is an aging, non-star player, with no NHL contract said it was an easy decision amongst ALL players. No.

This is clearly Fehrs decision, and he is clearly catering to the 1% of star players, right?
And yet there are players who said they wanted to vote on the last deal but they don't matter because they disagree with what you say right?

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12-12-2012, 05:56 PM
  #275
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And yet there are players who said they wanted to vote on the last deal but they don't matter because they disagree with what you say right?
Then maybe those players should go to the meetings? Nothing worse than players who sit at home and don't involve themselves, speaking out.

And I meant all as in all the players at the meeting.

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