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NHL Lockout Discussion XXVII: Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:07 PM
  #976
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
How do you not say the same thing about the owners? Why don't they put it to a vote and make it public? Seems you've got some double standards going. Whatever gets us hockey back asap, sign me up for that.
I have a pretty clear understanding of the league's position on almost all the issues.

There will obviously be differing opinions from group to group amongst the owners like the players, but so far all the proposals from the NHL have been clear.

The PA has not been clear. Their offers are all over the map, not even being really feasible until November 21st.

I still sit confused on the 2 apparently big issues the PA had with the NHL's last offer on term lengths and cba length.

Both their counter offers make no sense to me. Those offers are so irrelevant to their positions and so relevant to the NHL's position it makes no sense they wanted them altered. To me at least.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:07 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Turco , Campoli , Morrison

Why are these guys with no NHL future involved here?
Probably all angling for union jobs since their NHL careers are basically over.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:08 PM
  #978
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The tax payers might as well enjoy what they're paying for.
You know what would be even better than skating on the ice. Actually being able to use those season tickets and go to the games lol

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:08 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
@mturco35
ď@MattBarnaby3636: I think at some point players demand a vote and it passes. League goes right over Fehr to get deal they want.Ē Ur a tool

https://twitter.com/mturco35/status/279015911040618496

MARTY TURCO HAS SPOKEN
awesome

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:08 PM
  #980
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Put Bettman and Fehr at the podium in front of the press and rock paper scissors, best of 3. Winner gets their last offer as the new CBA.

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12-12-2012, 07:08 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Well, I explained why, I guess I didn't explain it very well.

IMO - and it's just IMO - the owners are directing Bettman. He is doing what they are telling him to do. Therefore, IMO, if he's doing what they're telling him (i.e., not accepting the PA's offer), then that's a pretty clear indication that they have, essentially, already "voted" by telling him what to do.

The players, on the other hand, don't have a real voice until a vote is taken. There are 750 (or so) of them. There are 30 owners. It's far easier for the 30 owners to make their stance clear via their instructions to Bettman than it is for the players to make their voices heard if they can't vote.

In other words, I don't think the owners need to vote because they essentially already have.
How about a counter opinion?
At $8 million per year Bettman actually has some power here. Of course, if he is just the owners' messenger boy then I can do the job just as well and I will only charge $4 million a year. Anyone know what Jacobs takes in his coffee?

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:09 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Of the 13 players present today, two are below 30 years of age (one of those being Campoli). One (possibly two with Andy McDonald) is a first line/first pairing guy. Three don't have a contract for next year (Campoli, Darche and Morrison).

The talk about the CBA can't be too long because the next generation won't have a voice is hollow, when they have eliminated the younger half of this generation from the talks.
It's about principles when someone is asking something of you, but it's just business when you ask for more money.

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12-12-2012, 07:09 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Wonder what Barnaby will respond
Isn't it obvious? "No U R!"

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12-12-2012, 07:10 PM
  #984
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Isn't it obvious? "No U R!"
LOL (for real)

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:10 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by ogas1121 View Post
You know what would be even better than skating on the ice. Actually being able to use those season tickets and go to the games lol
Like that's ever gonna happen now.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:13 PM
  #986
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Bettman should just say to the PA, you have until the 30th midnight to accept our proposal or the season would be cancel. no more games.

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12-12-2012, 07:14 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
That is what people on this board seem to think. I have yet to see a player actually tweet or state that in an interview. Until I do, it's all speculation.
OK, here's the quote from the article. Not a direct quote, but I haven't seen anyone saying that this writer's statement that the players said this is false.

Quote:
"Itís not as if Donald Fehr was lying to us, several players said. Rather, itís as if he has been economical with information, these players believe, not sharing facts these players consider to be vital."
Click here

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:15 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by albator71 View Post
Bettman should just say to the PA, you have until the 30th midnight to accept our proposal or the season would be cancel. no more games.
It will get to that point eventually, but not yet. When it does, we won't know about it either, not until it's too late. If it works it won't be brought up by anyone.

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12-12-2012, 07:16 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Well, I explained why, I guess I didn't explain it very well.

IMO - and it's just IMO - the owners are directing Bettman. He is doing what they are telling him to do. Therefore, IMO, if he's doing what they're telling him (i.e., not accepting the PA's offer), then that's a pretty clear indication that they have, essentially, already "voted" by telling him what to do.

The players, on the other hand, don't have a real voice until a vote is taken. There are 750 (or so) of them. There are 30 owners. It's far easier for the 30 owners to make their stance clear via their instructions to Bettman than it is for the players to make their voices heard if they can't vote.

In other words, I don't think the owners need to vote because they essentially already have.
If that's the case, why do people credit Bettman with doing a lot of good things for the league? For example, 'saving' some of the Canadian franchises in the 90's when the Canadian dollar was weak.

You can't have it both ways - Bettman can't just be a 'messenger' when it comes to CBA negotiations but the at the same time, the mastermind behind the growth of the NHL. He either has power, or doesn't.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:17 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Former AHLer (with 7 NHL games before retiring) Graham Mink had this to say.

https://twitter.com/GrahamMink21/sta...98101367341056

https://twitter.com/GrahamMink21/sta...98708358615040

"4 NHLPA players who ask "whats in this deal for us?" I answer: Millions of $ to play a sport you love while you are young enough to play it.

Take the deal and get back on the ice. You'll never make up the money you've lost. Owners aren't right, but since when does that matter? "


It's not about money. It's about sending a message... Everything burns.

Except the egos of our fine NHLPA.

Here's a fun thought. That is roughly the same amount of money the players are turning down right now by holding out. And for what?

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
How about a counter opinion?
At $8 million per year Bettman actually has some power here. Of course, if he is just the owners' messenger boy then I can do the job just as well and I will only charge $4 million a year. Anyone know what Jacobs takes in his coffee?
True, he could be going against the wishes of his bosses. Somehow, if that was the case, I doubt he would still have a job. You really think the owners have told him to accept the PA's offer and he just refuses on his own?

As for the rest, I somehow doubt you really believe these negotiations are the sum total of Gary Bettman's duties.

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12-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #992
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Burn NHL burn!!!

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:21 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
OK, here's the quote from the article. Not a direct quote, but I haven't seen anyone saying that this writer's statement that the players said this is false.



Click here
That's all well and good but it's still speculation. I'm pretty sure all the players know exactly what was in the last NHL offer, as well as the players board. They still have not put it to vote. If there was so much discontent for Fehr, he would be gone by now. Still feel like it's a ploy to drive a wedge.

You need a source with at least one confirmed player. We have none. I'm sure there are differing opinions in 750 player just like there are different opinions in the owners group. I fail to see a point.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:22 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
True, he could be going against the wishes of his bosses. Somehow, if that was the case, I doubt he would still have a job. You really think the owners have told him to accept the PA's offer and he just refuses on his own?

As for the rest, I somehow doubt you really believe these negotiations are the sum total of Gary Bettman's duties.
No, I mentioned the fetching coffee part of his duties. He's also paid to get booed at hockey games
IMO, Bettman sets the agenda. He has I believe a 75% veto protection. To suggest that he is simply following the owners wishes in passing along what they will accept is simply not accurate. He's paid big bucks to negotiate the best deal he can.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:23 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
If that's the case, why do people credit Bettman with doing a lot of good things for the league? For example, 'saving' some of the Canadian franchises in the 90's when the Canadian dollar was weak.

You can't have it both ways - Bettman can't just be a 'messenger' when it comes to CBA negotiations but the at the same time, the mastermind behind the growth of the NHL. He either has power, or doesn't.
Totally disagree.

I've had my fair share of jobs over the years and have always had duties that required my boss' approval, and duties I did on my own.

So it would be (1) Gary, here's what we want you to get in this CBA; and (2) Gary, we want you to work on the growth of the league, get to work on it.

I suspect that he ran most of his actions to achieve that growth by the owners, as well.

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12-12-2012, 07:23 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
If that's the case, why do people credit Bettman with doing a lot of good things for the league? For example, 'saving' some of the Canadian franchises in the 90's when the Canadian dollar was weak.

You can't have it both ways - Bettman can't just be a 'messenger' when it comes to CBA negotiations but the at the same time, the mastermind behind the growth of the NHL. He either has power, or doesn't.
I think Bettman`s greatest (only?) quality is the ability to speak with 30 exceptionally rich people, and determine their real wants, needs, and wishes, and distill that down to one single opinion, which is then presented to each of them in a way that they agree and believe it had their best interests at heart.

It really is a skill, and I don't think it should be trivialized. Maybe he isn't a mastermind, but he is definitely skilled at what he does.

I will still boo him if (when.....) the Sens win the cup, but I will not underestimate him, because he deserves that at least.

EDIT: I agree with the above post by BoltsFan in it's entirety.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #997
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What happened today? I was away all day.
What we know, an offer was or was not tabled. It may or may not be the NHL offer from last week. They may or may not meet tomorrow. There may be mediation still. That pretty much sums it up.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #998
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Could anyone give a brief overview of today? Are the players working on a proposal?

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12-12-2012, 07:26 PM
  #999
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Could anyone give a brief overview of today? Are the players working on a proposal?
No one knows anymore.

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12-12-2012, 07:26 PM
  #1000
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Could anyone give a brief overview of today? Are the players working on a proposal?
No proposals on either side, just hypotheticals discussed (and apparently rejected). Supposedly the PA's waiting for the mediator to make an assessment before they plan their next move.

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