HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official Arena Thread Part 6

View Poll Results: On what day will city council vote to finalize a new arena for Edmonton's downtown?
Between now and Christmas 2012 8 7.41%
Between New Year's Day and the end of February 2013 30 27.78%
Between March and July, 2013 16 14.81%
Before the October 2013 civic election 14 12.96%
Not until 2014 4 3.70%
Not until 2015 3 2.78%
Not until 2016 1 0.93%
Not until 2017 6 5.56%
Never 26 24.07%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2012, 09:06 PM
  #576
Hockey Fan #751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
So whats the over under on what gets done first. The arena deal or the NHLPA/NHL deal?
I'll say over.

Hockey Fan #751 is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 09:45 PM
  #577
Billybaroo*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Also just love this little ditty:

"David Staples ‏@dstaples
LaForge says he's talked to Bettman about Edm getting different NHL team. "He says this line of thinking is not realistic or constructive."


Katz and his cronies are just sooo unbelievable. The greed is quite astounding.
Yeah, they have integrity & good faith.

Billybaroo* is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:22 PM
  #578
April Ethereal
Eternal rains...
 
April Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Also just love this little ditty:

"David Staples ‏@dstaples
LaForge says he's talked to Bettman about Edm getting different NHL team. "He says this line of thinking is not realistic or constructive."


Katz and his cronies are just sooo unbelievable. The greed is quite astounding.
Yeah, they have integrity & good faith.
What. The. ****?

April Ethereal is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:30 PM
  #579
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Also just love this little ditty:

"David Staples ‏@dstaples
LaForge says he's talked to Bettman about Edm getting different NHL team. "He says this line of thinking is not realistic or constructive."


Katz and his cronies are just sooo unbelievable. The greed is quite astounding.
Yeah, they have integrity & good faith.
God, LaForge is a sniveling joke.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 10:58 PM
  #580
Up the Irons
Registered User
 
Up the Irons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,509
vCash: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Also just love this little ditty:

"David Staples ‏@dstaples
LaForge says he's talked to Bettman about Edm getting different NHL team. "He says this line of thinking is not realistic or constructive."


Katz and his cronies are just sooo unbelievable. The greed is quite astounding.
Yeah, they have integrity & good faith.
meh. I'm not going to read too much into one misplaced statement from Laforge. The Group seems to be admitting that their aggressive, demanding approach may work in taking over IDAs, but when dealing with civic gorvernment, not so much.

i think for many of us, this (and the CBA) is a rare glimpse into big money negotiations, and the dirty tactics and lying are sickening.

look, if this arena is going to get built, its either going to cost us more or we build the ACC or GM place (rogers centre?). sad but tru-ue.

the Katz Group's proposal to start a slush fund for Arena costs that is built up with taxes generated from the CRL ,after they have reached a projected tax revenue increase, is not nearly as unpalatable as a 6 million dollar yearly subsidy. so, say after 2 billion dollars in taxes have been generated (a timely that would probabably coincide with Arena upgrades, say 30 years), then we can start helping out.

i'm sure there are other ideas. if we can see their books (thru a mediator), yearly, maybe we can help them out in bad years, if they pay it back in goods years.

but, they have to win our trust by being trustworthy.

the tone is alot better.

Up the Irons is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:19 PM
  #581
Billybaroo*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
meh. I'm not going to read too much into one misplaced statement from Laforge. The Group seems to be admitting that their aggressive, demanding approach may work in taking over IDAs, but when dealing with civic gorvernment, not so much.

i think for many of us, this (and the CBA) is a rare glimpse into big money negotiations, and the dirty tactics and lying are sickening.

look, if this arena is going to get built, its either going to cost us more or we build the ACC or GM place (rogers centre?). sad but tru-ue.

the Katz Group's proposal to start a slush fund for Arena costs that is built up with taxes generated from the CRL ,after they have reached a projected tax revenue increase, is not nearly as unpalatable as a 6 million dollar yearly subsidy. so, say after 2 billion dollars in taxes have been generated (a timely that would probabably coincide with Arena upgrades, say 30 years), then we can start helping out.

i'm sure there are other ideas. if we can see their books (thru a mediator), yearly, maybe we can help them out in bad years, if they pay it back in goods years.

but, they have to win our trust by being trustworthy.

the tone is alot better.
No, but it just speaks again to their integrity. They obviously have no shame. This just confirms it again.
And I have no idea why the City would give them a penny more. They agreed to the framework. It was exceedingly generous. Why make it more generous?
And frankly, if the surrounding development takes off Ive got a little secret for you. The City does well. You know who else does? Thats right. And is he going to share with the City his windfall?
You got that right.

Billybaroo* is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:25 PM
  #582
The Dayvan Cowboy
Registered Genius
 
The Dayvan Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhoenixx View Post
Yes, I do live in Edmonton.

I earned my degree at the U of A.

I currently live Downtown.

I grew up North of Edmonton.

I travel up toward Peace River every two weeks.

Nice try though.
And I spent 18 years near Peace River.

It is filled up the *** with trucks. For **** sakes I drove a truck and I'm the least small town person on the planet.

Dad drives a truck. (during winter)
Mom drives a truck.
3/4s of my relatives drive a truck.
Every guy that I graduated with or every guy I knew from neighboring schools drove a truck.
Almost every family friend we have drives a truck.

The Dayvan Cowboy is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:34 PM
  #583
flashy
Fire Tambellini.
 
flashy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,500
vCash: 1860
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhoenixx View Post
Yes, I do live in Edmonton.

I earned my degree at the U of A.

I currently live Downtown.

I grew up North of Edmonton.

I travel up toward Peace River every two weeks.

Nice try though.
You have a degree?

In what?

flashy is offline  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:53 PM
  #584
tempest2i
Feral
 
tempest2i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cowtown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
And I spent 18 years near Peace River.

It is filled up the *** with trucks. For **** sakes I drove a truck and I'm the least small town person on the planet.

Dad drives a truck. (during winter)
Mom drives a truck.
3/4s of my relatives drive a truck.
Every guy that I graduated with or every guy I knew from neighboring schools drove a truck.
Almost every family friend we have drives a truck.
There's nothing wrong with driving a truck.

On the other hand, there's a lot wrong with driving a truck that has a ridiculous lift kit, massive tires and dual straight exhaust.

tempest2i is online now  
Old
12-12-2012, 11:59 PM
  #585
The Dayvan Cowboy
Registered Genius
 
The Dayvan Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
There's nothing wrong with driving a truck.

On the other hand, there's a lot wrong with driving a truck that has a ridiculous lift kit, massive tires and dual straight exhaust.
I traded mine in for a car the second I moved out of residence. All I was doing though was arguing his point saying that the stereotype is way overblown -- it isn't.

The Dayvan Cowboy is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 12:02 AM
  #586
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,839
vCash: 500
I'm 6'6" tall, I drive a truck because well, I'm not too car friendly If I sit in a regular cab Chevy truck my head hits the roof.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 12:29 AM
  #587
Puckschmuck*
Doan Shall Be Boo'ed
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
*What I've learned today*

According to SOME people here, driving a truck = being a redneck hillbilly.

Puckschmuck* is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 12:39 AM
  #588
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Also just love this little ditty:

"David Staples ‏@dstaples
LaForge says he's talked to Bettman about Edm getting different NHL team. "He says this line of thinking is not realistic or constructive."


Katz and his cronies are just sooo unbelievable. The greed is quite astounding.
Yeah, they have integrity & good faith.
Not sure what the problem with that quote it.

Bettman is right, the belief that the NHL would be tripping over itself to move another team back to Edmonton if they somehow lost the team over these negotiations was never realistic, and most certainly wasn't constructive.

I'm sure if you asked Bettman about Katz's threats to move the team there is a chance you'd get a similar answer.

Tarus is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 01:42 AM
  #589
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Not sure what the problem with that quote it.

Bettman is right, the belief that the NHL would be tripping over itself to move another team back to Edmonton if they somehow lost the team over these negotiations was never realistic, and most certainly wasn't constructive.

I'm sure if you asked Bettman about Katz's threats to move the team there is a chance you'd get a similar answer.
The key word that Bettman used was "constructive." It's not constructive in the least to even float that idea. Get it done in Edmonton.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 02:32 AM
  #590
Hockey Fan #751
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Not sure what the problem with that quote it.

Bettman is right, the belief that the NHL would be tripping over itself to move another team back to Edmonton if they somehow lost the team over these negotiations was never realistic, and most certainly wasn't constructive.

I'm sure if you asked Bettman about Katz's threats to move the team there is a chance you'd get a similar answer.
Exactly. Shortly after LaForge said it, the mayor confirmed that he heard it himself from Bettman not too long ago.

Hockey Fan #751 is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 09:13 AM
  #591
Section337
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,285
vCash: 500
Do these guys have any awareness of reality? While trying to restart communication they let LaForge lose to invoke Bettman's, the great constructor, name. Rexall Sports has annoyed me so much during this arena gong show.

Section337 is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 09:38 AM
  #592
Halibut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,272
vCash: 500
I think the idea they put forward is a good one. A fund from the CRL if it exceeds expectations and if an external auditor can determine the teams finances require it. There do have to be contingencies built into it though, like what happens if the CRL doesnt exceed expectations but the team still needs a break?

Halibut is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 09:39 AM
  #593
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,768
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
So whats the over under on what gets done first. The arena deal or the NHLPA/NHL deal?
Well the arena won't be talked about again til January 23 at the earliest. Some think an arena deal will be done this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizuka View Post
Not much discussion on the actual look of the arena from the new renderings -- sorry, what's changed on the appearances?? Is it mostly cosmetic?

*edit* sorry, after having another look at the original renderings, there are some less marked differences than what I had imagined. I'm still a little underwhelmed at the surrounding building (Winter Garden?) design though.
I don't think they planned on changing much of the design. It was mentioned that changing the winter garden would result in them changing the whole project design.

Not shocking it was just cosmetic stuff that could make the project cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I think Mandel is playing more of the "bad cop" routine this time because he was probably a little embarrassed by being hung out to dry last time.

He still wants this project to go forward very much so IMO.
Not shocked to be honest. He's really stuck his neck out for Katz and followed all his demands of meeting with Bettman and such, and then Katz threw a curve at him.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #594
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,768
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
meh. I'm not going to read too much into one misplaced statement from Laforge. The Group seems to be admitting that their aggressive, demanding approach may work in taking over IDAs, but when dealing with civic gorvernment, not so much.

i think for many of us, this (and the CBA) is a rare glimpse into big money negotiations, and the dirty tactics and lying are sickening.

look, if this arena is going to get built, its either going to cost us more or we build the ACC or GM place (rogers centre?). sad but tru-ue.

the Katz Group's proposal to start a slush fund for Arena costs that is built up with taxes generated from the CRL ,after they have reached a projected tax revenue increase, is not nearly as unpalatable as a 6 million dollar yearly subsidy. so, say after 2 billion dollars in taxes have been generated (a timely that would probabably coincide with Arena upgrades, say 30 years), then we can start helping out.

i'm sure there are other ideas. if we can see their books (thru a mediator), yearly, maybe we can help them out in bad years, if they pay it back in goods years.

but, they have to win our trust by being trustworthy.

the tone is alot better.
I honestly don't see how that statement helped the Oilers if anything it told the Oilers and the city of Edmonton that the Oil aren't going anywhere.

As for the books. Does katz handing over the pieces of papers that he chooses really going to solve anyone. I'm not going to be shocked if Katz forgets to give certain documents.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 09:43 AM
  #595
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,768
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
*What I've learned today*

According to SOME people here, driving a truck = being a redneck hillbilly.
You just learned this today?

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 10:16 AM
  #596
T-Funk
Registered User
 
T-Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
You just learned this today?
Not every person who drives a truck is a redneck hillbilly, but every redneck hillbilly drives a truck.

T-Funk is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 10:50 AM
  #597
Billybaroo*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
I think the idea they put forward is a good one. A fund from the CRL if it exceeds expectations and if an external auditor can determine the teams finances require it. There do have to be contingencies built into it though, like what happens if the CRL doesnt exceed expectations but the team still needs a break?
Given that Katz will have a signifigant interest in the surrounding development, if it takes off doesnt that also mean he makes lots of $$$?
And on the flip side, if Katz wants that, maybe if the Arena does well City shares in some of that profit.
Thats seems fair,no?

Billybaroo* is offline  
Old
12-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #598
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,029
vCash: 500
i think the CRL idea is both a good idea and shrewd move by the katz group

its a good move because it they are putting their money where their mouth is.... they have long argued that the arena would be a huge boon to the downtown area, and that the CRL monies would be significant... they are basically now saying that the katz group only gets more money if their opinion on the CRL turns out to be correct... it also makes some sense for the project that really *creates* the CRL (the arena that is) get some additional benefits from the CRL

it is a shrewd move because the city has always seemed somewhat soft in their predictions of what the CRL will end up being... the katz group has always seemed more bullish than the city, thats for sure... if the city doesn't agree to this, they are essentially admitting that the katz group is right and the CRL will generate a lot more money than the city is predicting it will... because if the CRL doesn't generate this extra money, the city would agree to the new demand, knowing that the CRL will never hit the target, and therefore the katz group won't get the extra money... but to say no to this new idea is saying: yes we agree that the CRL will hit the new, higher, targets, but you shouldn't get any of this new windfall

its a pretty smart move by the katz group

jadeddog is online now  
Old
12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #599
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Not every person who drives a truck is a redneck hillbilly, but every redneck hillbilly drives a truck.
bill maher's quote about racists and republicans springs to mind

jadeddog is online now  
Old
12-13-2012, 12:16 PM
  #600
Billybaroo*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i think the CRL idea is both a good idea and shrewd move by the katz group

its a good move because it they are putting their money where their mouth is.... they have long argued that the arena would be a huge boon to the downtown area, and that the CRL monies would be significant... they are basically now saying that the katz group only gets more money if their opinion on the CRL turns out to be correct... it also makes some sense for the project that really *creates* the CRL (the arena that is) get some additional benefits from the CRL

it is a shrewd move because the city has always seemed somewhat soft in their predictions of what the CRL will end up being... the katz group has always seemed more bullish than the city, thats for sure... if the city doesn't agree to this, they are essentially admitting that the katz group is right and the CRL will generate a lot more money than the city is predicting it will... because if the CRL doesn't generate this extra money, the city would agree to the new demand, knowing that the CRL will never hit the target, and therefore the katz group won't get the extra money... but to say no to this new idea is saying: yes we agree that the CRL will hit the new, higher, targets, but you shouldn't get any of this new windfall

its a pretty smart move by the katz group
Btw, its hardly a windfall. The costts associated with the City services & infrastructure of this area , should it take off, are enormous. People talk as if its without cost for the City, both today & tomorrow. Its not. The costs are enormous.
To say nothing of the argument many make that its just transferring tax revenue from one area of the City to another.
And again, if the area takes off, common sense says that means Katz surrounding businesses will do very well as well. So why would the City further subsidize him? Why is that never factored in?
Always a one way street.

Billybaroo* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.