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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-12-2012, 09:37 PM
  #701
wolfgaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Zipay says players are "huddling" over the proposal.

Seems like its decision time. Either they agree to the deal and we get a half season, or we'll probably see it cancelled.
Yes I just want some damn closure on this. They need to make up their mind... Accept what's been offerred or accept that the season will be cancelled and they'll spend many more months negotiating what will likely be an equally undesirable resolution.

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12-12-2012, 09:40 PM
  #702
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So nothing planned for tomorrow I take it?

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Old
12-12-2012, 09:57 PM
  #703
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Oh and don't listen to Fehr. I hope we see SOME games at least.

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Old
12-12-2012, 10:55 PM
  #704
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After defending Lundqvist on the main board I'm really pushing it with this!

I did see that write up from him about walking by MSG, and wanting to be in the Rangers uniform again, and I really thought that was one of the more classy things I've read from these players during this lockout. He didn't even sneak in a ''We have a lot of trust in Don, and just want a fair deal'' generic phrase that's been going around even by some of the moderates during this lockout.

Some of these guys have a boatload of cash, and really don't care about losing some money if they can be playing right now. Other guys make little by the leagues standard, and also don't care about losing some money if they can be playing right now. Then it seems there's a lot of guys that you can't understand. Especially a guy like Campoli who in all honesty and jokes aside isn't even a lock to keep an NHL job full time. I don't understand it.

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12-12-2012, 11:00 PM
  #705
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Thought this article was interesting. If it was posted before sorry.

"NHL could call in NBA lockout fixer"

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...out-fixer.html

I thought some of his thoughts was actually more interesting.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:32 AM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Well so far it has gotten better the longer they've waited, despite people asking that question repeatedly
While this is true, the more games that are cancelled... the worse the offer will be.

The make whole last week was 300M...this week it's back to 211M.

Cancel the season and it dives under 100M. Why? Because contracts expire, revenue is lost and the owners won't pay just for the sake of paying.

I agree that the league's stance has been a fabricated line in the sand over and over again... but with the next cancellation you lose a season. Once that happens the players will lose exponentially more than they will now.

They were going to lose all along (if you use the last CBA and percentages as the starting point).

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:39 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
While this is true, the more games that are cancelled... the worse the offer will be.

The make whole last week was 300M...this week it's back to 211M.

Cancel the season and it dives under 100M. Why? Because contracts expire, revenue is lost and the owners won't pay just for the sake of paying.

I agree that the league's stance has been a fabricated line in the sand over and over again... but with the next cancellation you lose a season. Once that happens the players will lose exponentially more than they will now.

They were going to lose all along (if you use the last CBA and percentages as the starting point).
I thought the previous make-whole offer was $250M and another $50M for the pension, whereas now it's $211M/$50M. It's still a decrease but not as significant. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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12-13-2012, 06:46 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I thought the previous make-whole offer was $250M and another $50M for the pension, whereas now it's $211M/$50M. It's still a decrease but not as significant. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not sure how it was divided... I was generalizing the owners' payout.

How the PA divides it is irrelevant, at least to me (and probably to the owners).

I thought the pension came out of the players' share.

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12-13-2012, 06:48 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Not sure how it was divided... I was generalizing the owners' payout.

How the PA divides it is irrelevant, at least to me (and probably to the owners).

I thought the pension came out of the players' share.
Yeah it does, but that last "take it or leave it" offer had the owners kicking $50M into the pot. As a one-time thing.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:51 AM
  #710
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The PA is supposed to be in touch with the mediators today about a meeting today. Fehr wouldn't disclose his conversations with the mediators.

Quote:
NHLPA confirms: No word from mediator tonight on resumption of mediation Thursday. Will make call in a.m.
https://twitter.com/SportsnetSpec/st...80102132871168

Not likely.

Some of these NHL guys are a little too much. Both sides.

Quote:
“We think he probably has a clause where he can’t be fired by the PA, or if he does, he gets a gigantic balloon payment. So, what’s the downside for him for a season being cancelled?” said the same league exec, quoted earlier. “Either way, he still gets his money. He still gets to keep his reputation as the baddest ass in labor negotiations and the sport dies that he could not give two (bleeps) about.”
Quote:
I asked an influential NHL exec, another one than the one listed above, if this is all still way too close to blow up a season for? I said, “Come on, we’ll have a season, right?” His response:

“We’ll play if (Fehr) wants us to play. We aren’t going to surrender on what really need to make him a hero.”
Surrender? Now I know where Bill Watters gets his BS from. The NHL might need a change of leadership. Some of these guys are stuck in the 1970s and 1980s when Alan Eagleson ran the PA with the help of the NHL.

This guy was a former player and was a member of management. Many NHLPA guys probably share this view.

Quote:
And the response from the other side, from the same guy before:
“The NHL is run by a bunch of lawyers. It’s not run by business-minded people. I’ll tell you exactly what’s going to happen, or at least I think the chances of the way I see it happening are 90 percent: The players gave everything they had to give, to make a deal last week, OK? And the NHL walked away. They’re going to announce next week they’re canceling the season, knowing they’ve still got about 30 days to fix it, to salvage it. They’re going to put the pressure back on the players. And they’re not going to call, they’re not going to talk, they’re not going to have anything going on for about a week-to-10 days. Then they’ll go back to the table. And they’re going to hope the players by that time have (bleeped) themselves, and hope that they’re going to fold, with another home run win by Bettman and his crooks. Having said that, if the players hold tight and say “Go (bleep) yourself”, and Bettman takes a hike, then there’s a chance he could get canned, because the majority of the teams in the league want to play.”
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...-settle/12016/

Bettman isn't getting fired. Gary probably has protection negotiated in his contract. Just like Fehr.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:08 AM
  #711
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Bottom line:

Players were making 57%... that's well over what every other set of players make, in every other league/sport.

GMs couldn't police themselves, therefore rules need to be placed on contract structure.

The NHL owes it to their fans to not have another stoppage (lockout or strike) for a very long time.

i.e. - Owners win, players cave... but make a killing in salaries... moreso as the revenue increases.

Get it over with already.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:38 AM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
The NHLPA decertifies and we are not having season next year (It will be long fight in courts) and if NHL wins they can force a CBA on the NHLPA
They can think al they want, but not one owner wants to be in court, fighting an unfair labor practice lawsuit.
Quote:
Really pointless for NHLPA to even consider to decertify and holding out is pointless as once the season is cancelled they will not only lose all there $$$ for this year but the next owner CBA offers will be far worse
Yes, but again, do not underestimate waht wathching a $200 million investment shrink towards 0 does. And, off course, continue to pay fixed costs.
Quote:
NHL lowering HRR and CBA offer would not be bargaining in goof faith as NHL can simply claim the economic losses to sport are that severe
In a court of law, they would have to prove it. Which means producing those closely guarded financial statements which NO ONE, not even Leavitt, has been given access to.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:59 AM
  #713
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The real question is, how do the Rangers put themselves into a position to get Connor McDavid?

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:26 AM
  #714
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The real question is, how do the Rangers put themselves into a position to get Connor McDavid?
Threaten bankruptcy and relocation?

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:35 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Threaten bankruptcy and relocation?
Sounds like a plan.

Come on, the commish owes us one. Rig it.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:42 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
The real question is, how do the Rangers put themselves into a position to get Connor McDavid?
Cummon, the only teams able to get a kid like that are the Pens, and Oilers......

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:51 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
The real question is, how do the Rangers put themselves into a position to get Connor McDavid?

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:03 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
Cummon, the only teams able to get a kid like that are the Pens, and Oilers......
McDavid is terrible!! I know because the Pens had a good season last year.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:12 AM
  #719
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...70771803688961

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@mirtle. Right, but teams insist $300 mil is gone and $211 is in serious question.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #720
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McDavid is terrible!! I know because the Pens had a good season last year.
check back with us when crosby and malkin miss 80 games each in the 2014-15 season leading up to his draft lol

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:30 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
The real question is, how do the Rangers put themselves into a position to get Connor McDavid?
That will happen when the Union breaks the owners and the entry draft is scrapped for a slient auction.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #722
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check back with us when crosby and malkin miss 80 games each in the 2014-15 season leading up to his draft lol
Doh! Thought he was a '13 draft prospect.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #723
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Doh! Thought he was a '13 draft prospect.
He was granted exceptional player status, so he's in the CHL one year early.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #724
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From: @CraigCustance
Sent: Dec 13, 2012 12:57p

Newport's Don Meehan on RFA deals for Subban, O'Reilly, MDZ once lockout ends: "We’re all going to have to kick into high gear quickly."

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/CraigCustance/sta...83986763755520

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @CraigCustance
Sent: Dec 13, 2012 12:57p

Newport's Don Meehan on RFA deals for Subban, O'Reilly, MDZ once lockout ends: "We’re all going to have to kick into high gear quickly."

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/CraigCustance/sta...83986763755520
Can we trade MDZ, Miller, Skej and a 1st for Subban, please? Montreal would still say no, but a top four of:

McDonagh - Subban
Staal - Girardi

would be the hands down best defense I've ever seen. In front of Lundqvist? Damn.

Plus Subby's a RH shot.

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