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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

LeBrun: Moderates push NHL, NHLPA back to table

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Old
12-11-2012, 10:30 PM
  #26
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinPower420 View Post
Burkle's a left liberal IRL :-)

I did mean in the NHL context, as he's been identified as a moderate. Dolan, on the other hand, is more anti-Bettman than I am.

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Old
12-12-2012, 05:34 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Give me one example of a hardline position taken by the PA
Name one thing in their offer that strikes you as "hardline"
Well, contract rights. I doubt they come off not accepting five years. It ought to be interesting because I suspect the league to slash into Make Whole significantly as a result of compromise.

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Old
12-12-2012, 06:12 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
maybe Dolan can get there, make everything worse so we can all be "y u do dis dolan?"
I think it could be worse, Dolan actually cares of the game and often sits in with Slats in his suit during games.

Many of these guys probably couldn't name a single player on their team and/or has a NBA team that they care more about and see thrive when the competition is lesser without the NHL....

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Old
12-12-2012, 06:21 AM
  #29
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You know Dolan and Sather having been working on the NHL to get back to the table. Dolan hired Sather with Bettman's backing in 2000. You know Sather has been talking to Don Meehan and Pat Morris of Newport Sports about getting the PA back to the table. Brad Richards has been involved in the talks. He is a Newport Sports client. Dolan and Sather have probably talked to Richards. The NHL allowed Crosby to fly to NY with Burkle last week.

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Old
12-12-2012, 06:21 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Up until very recently...no linkage.
I am so fed up with that, it really had nothing to do with linkage or not at that point.

Sure, one can aruge about the numbers in the PA's proposal, but if a new CBA was entered into that saved the full season, what would have mattered under the PA's proposal was the numbers and not if it was linked or not. I am sure Bettman or any owner could have lived with both.

Its just not in touch with reality in any sense to expect HRR to go down like 10+ percent from last season if 82 games had been played this year. And had Bettman bought Fehr's numbers, I am 100% sure he could have forced Fehr to eat an "emergency clause" that had the PA's set share go down dollar for dollar for each dollar 2012/13 HRR went down compared to 2011/12.

Believe me, it was 1) about dollars and 2) about negotiation position. Its much easier for the NHL to sell that they are offering x00m in make up besdes 1.500m as opposed to x.x00m to the players with directly can be compared to last years share. The first option can and is sold as "good will" almost from the others side, while it would have been much easier for the players to hold ground at the exact same number as last year.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:18 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
LeBrun has lost credibility as a journalist during this lockout.

How did moderates push the PA back to the table. The PA leadership has been saying they wanted to keep talking and negotiating.

Who exactly are the "hardliners" in the PA? The ones who've pushed Fehr to give big in every single area???

Moreover, not only as LeBrun acted like a PR tool for the owners... his writing...



is loaded with overdramatic and simplistic prose.
"Lebrun has lost credibility as a journalist during the Lockout"

Who say stuff like this? MOD


Last edited by Fugu: 12-12-2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: ot
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Old
12-12-2012, 07:29 AM
  #32
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So after reading all comments and news...one thing is sure. Owners put Bettman out, Players put Fehr out and we got a season on December 25th as a gift.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:54 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by flaproosta08 View Post
Wonder how the NHL will cast the players as a "good guys" after this week?
The same way the players have made it more palatable when they eventually go back to work for the guys who are signing their pay cheques - owners and players aren't going after one another. Players have directed their frustrations toward Bettman, owners are directing their frustration toward Fehr. The comments from the 4 moderates last week seem to indicate as much. The owners either directly or indirectly suggested that it was the inclusion of Fehr behind the scenes that slowed and then eventually halted the process that was being made.

Bettman and Fehr are the scapegoats that will allow the owners and players to go on their merry way together when a deal is finally signed.

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Old
12-12-2012, 11:07 PM
  #34
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I think its pretty easy to figure out which owners are "moderates" and which are "hardliners", but for the players, it probably comes down to who stands to loose the most.

Teams are going to find a way to pay the elite players whatever it takes. So the marquis players are probably among the moderates.

The guys who signed 13 year contracts last summer are probably pretty firm that existing contracts have to be honoured.

Anyone who is approaching RFA or UFA status the summer of 2013 won't be too thrilled about changes to RFA or UFA eligibility.

I can't see contract term limits being the hill this CBA dies on. The number of 6+ year contracts in the NHL is so small.

As a fan, the one issue I am firmly behind the owners on is the term of the next CBA. We just can't do this again in 5 or 6 years. It has to be 8-10 years.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:33 AM
  #35
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Have fun negotiating a new US broadcast contract.
Have fun playing in the KHL and Swiss league.


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Old
12-13-2012, 07:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I would really like to know who the moderate players are? Find it interesting how LeBrun protects naming any of them.
After the backlash a 20-year vet like Hamrlik has gotten you think anyone else would dare come forward and put their name to it? The closest you're going to get is Lundqvist saying on some Swedish radio station that both sides are to blame and they're too close not to do a deal.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:06 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
Have fun negotiating a new US broadcast contract.

Why do you think the league got one that lasts 10 years AND now want a CBA that will last 10 years?


Last edited by IU Hawks fan: 12-13-2012 at 07:18 AM. Reason: missed an S in their somewhere.
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Old
12-13-2012, 07:12 AM
  #38
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At this point I put every lock out day going forward on the players and the NHLPA. The players have a 50/50 split (just like the NFL and NBA), they got their make whole money and a 10 year CBA (with opt out after 8) and 5 year max contracts (7 if they sign with their team) is not only fair but it's good for the league as a whole. Sign the deal already. Or at least give the league a yes or no answer on the deal. This is ridiculous! The players should be ashamed of themselves at this point.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:13 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
I think its pretty easy to figure out which owners are "moderates" and which are "hardliners", but for the players, it probably comes down to who stands to loose the most.
This has been the key all along LeftCoast, and this is also what has frustrated me the most all along.

The PA -- and Fehr -- has basically from the get go been prepared to roll over and die, surrender anything basically. Give away 50/50. Give away contracts rights. Put AHL contracts on the cap. And so forth.

Because, financially, it does not and never have made any sense for the players to hold out. If half the season is missed over the term of lets say a 8 year CBA that alone accounts for 6.2% of HRR yearly (!). Yearly. And its so obvious that this is not about dollars and cents from them. They just don't want a labor environment in which a guy who never played the game comes in and unanimously dictate exactly what they should earn. Because I don't think anyone doubts that Bettman's opening offer would be like <30% of HRR after this CBA, and equal cuts next time and next time.

Its undoubtedly about the labor climate more then anything else. Because anyone with basic knowledge of the easiest math can see that, financially, what the players are doing isn't making sense. And what does the by TSN and co idolized Gary Bettman do?

-Presents a downright insane first proposal with several provisions undoubtedly designed just to piss off the players (share rooms on the road etc)? Check.

-Waste any kind of credebility he might have by presenting offers made by him in a deciving way in the press? Check.

-Refuse to respect the players in any way during the negotiations and storms out of the room within minutes after the PA makse a counter offer to try to slander the players? Check.

The moderates needs to take over on the owner side. Bettman is just a mess. Because on the player side, who is a "moderate" when among the majority it never has been about dollar and cents?

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:21 AM
  #40
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The PA -- and Fehr -- has basically from the get go been prepared to roll over and die, surrender anything basically. Give away 50/50. Give away contracts rights. Put AHL contracts on the cap. And so forth.

Haha, give away 50/50??? You got to be kidding me. Why should the players get anything more than a 50/50 split especially considering the deals that just got signed in the NBA and NFL? Two leagues that are far more successful. 50/50 is what it was always going to be and what it should be. Fehr didn't give that up. Haha.

If Fehr is willing to roll over then why not give in to the 10 year CBA and 5 year max contracts?


Last edited by du5566*: 12-13-2012 at 07:28 AM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 07:33 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Give me one example of a hardline position taken by the PA
Name one thing in their offer that strikes you as "hardline"

Hardline is when they ousted Kelly and replaced him with Fehr. Hardline is when Fehr refused to talk to the NHL until a few months before the season was to begin. Hardline is their complete refusal to offer a serious proposal. They've been very clever. Every time the NHL makes a new offer, they change the subject. The NHL just coughed up $180 million extra to get the season going and the PA made no response, no concession, no nothing. They didn't budge an inch.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:41 AM
  #42
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So the moderators were suppose to get the NHL and NHLPA back to the table...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/nhl-loc...tout-1.1076432

They couldn't even get them in the same room.

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Old
12-13-2012, 04:44 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
The PA -- and Fehr -- has basically from the get go been prepared to roll over and die, surrender anything basically. Give away 50/50. Give away contracts rights. Put AHL contracts on the cap. And so forth.

Haha, give away 50/50??? You got to be kidding me. Why should the players get anything more than a 50/50 split especially considering the deals that just got signed in the NBA and NFL? Two leagues that are far more successful. 50/50 is what it was always going to be and what it should be. Fehr didn't give that up. Haha.

If Fehr is willing to roll over then why not give in to the 10 year CBA and 5 year max contracts?
Labour negotiations in other leagues is irrelevant. It's like saying plumbers in union XYZ need to take a pay cut because the construction workers in union ABC just took one. They are different unions, that work for different employers, and have different CBA's.

The NHL players were above 50% prior to these negotiations. Coming down to 50% is therefore a concession that the players have given to the owners (one of many other concessions).

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:01 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by gormo View Post
He then figuratively threw that table in a rage and smashed it to pieces.
I had a vision of mini HULK Bettman smashing tables??


Last edited by aj8000: 12-13-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 05:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So the moderators were suppose to get the NHL and NHLPA back to the table...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/nhl-loc...tout-1.1076432

They couldn't even get them in the same room.
I guess we need to send in our star moderator FUGU, that will keep them on topic and the insults to a minimum or she will ban them from the negotiations.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by aj8000 View Post
I guess we need to send in our star moderator FUGU, that will keep them on topic and the insults to a minimum or she will ban them from the negotiations.
Yeah but she will be so heavily pro-PA that the NHL will go bankrupt.


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Old
12-13-2012, 08:12 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Hardline is when they ousted Kelly and replaced him with Fehr. Hardline is when Fehr refused to talk to the NHL until a few months before the season was to begin. Hardline is their complete refusal to offer a serious proposal. They've been very clever. Every time the NHL makes a new offer, they change the subject. The NHL just coughed up $180 million extra to get the season going and the PA made no response, no concession, no nothing. They didn't budge an inch.
Add: the PA rejected the owner's re-alignment plan.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:54 PM
  #48
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Haha, the average NHL player has to be asking themselves what are we doing? We are losing money that we will never recoup and for what? So Sidney Crosby and the rest of the "stars" can get 10 year contracts for max money? Haha, how are the players staying unified during this? The owners offer is decent and is not going to get any better. The players will all get rich for playing hockey either way. What line of crap is Fehr feeding these guys?

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