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NHL Lockout XXVIII: Don't worry about the lockout. Let me worry about blank.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #326
RangerBoy
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@NHLPA met with Federal mediators this a.m. Unclear whether there will b further meetings today. Players feel league unwilling to negotiate.
https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/st...43642059771904

Early birds in the PA this morning.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:20 AM
  #327
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We have been staying tuned for 4 months grrrrre

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:21 AM
  #328
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So predictable.

What was it that idiot Upshall said on Twitter? Something like, the league has a drop-dead date when they'll come looking for a 'partner'. Another month's pay out the window Scottie

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:23 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
[url]https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/status/279243642059771904[/url

Early birds in the PA this morning.
Duh PA, duh.

They've moved as much as they will PA, stuff a sock in Fehr's mouth, and figure this out on your own.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:25 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/st...43642059771904

Early birds in the PA this morning.
They never went to sleep...

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:26 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/st...43642059771904

Early birds in the PA this morning.
Even if the mediator does think both sides are close, both sides refused to move from their positions yesterday. Being close doesn't do much good if neither is willing to close the gap in some way or another.

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12-13-2012, 09:27 AM
  #332
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Why'd the nhlpa bother calling in mediators when they were unwilling to move themselves?

Such a sideshow

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #333
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The PA should expose the NHL for its crafty accounting. Oh wait..

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:31 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by DopeyFish View Post
Why'd the nhlpa bother calling in mediators when they were unwilling to move themselves?

Such a sideshow
It's a ploy in the grand scheme of decertification.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:32 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Even if the mediator does think both sides are close, both sides refused to move from their positions yesterday. Being close doesn't do much good if neither is willing to close the gap in some way or another.
Maybe after talking to the PA, the mediator can go to the league and say something along the lines of "The PA is willing to move on X if you're willing to move on Y".

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #336
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Any theories on why Fehr and NHLPA insists on mediators when mediators are considered somewhat of a last resort anyway? Are they not? Yet Fehr insists they are close to a deal?

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
It's a ploy in the grand scheme of decertification.
It isn't going to work. NHL has proven it negotiates but when the nhlpa doesn't get what they want they call in mediators. This last time we have fehr on record saying the PA hasn't changed position. That tells me they are unwilling to negotiate themselves.

Unlike NFL lockout, NHL has a lot more legs to stand on. Decertification will fail hilariously.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #338
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Step 1: Disagree
Step 2: Demand mediation
Step 3: Disagree with mediation
Step 4: Disagree some more
Step 5: Lose a year of pay

Sounds like a recipe for success

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:39 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Step 1: Disagree
Step 2: Demand mediation
Step 3: Disagree with mediation
Step 4: Disagree some more
Step 5: Lose a year of pay

Sounds like a recipe for success
Step 6: sign October 2012 NHL off in August 2013

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:40 AM
  #340
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I was solidly in the "we're going to have a season" camp. Meh, now I'm not as sure and I'm starting not to care. It's getting sad...

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12-13-2012, 09:40 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Any theories on why Fehr and NHLPA insists on mediators when mediators are considered somewhat of a last resort anyway? Are they not? Yet Fehr insists they are close to a deal?
They're not close. Fehr keeps adding provisions, like capping escrow, to essentially throw the whole negotiating process off course. That's what Bettman meant when he said Fehr was "cherry-picking" (I believe). Then he has the nerve to come out and tell everyone they're close when there is no way in hell the Owners accept that sort of provision.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:44 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
They're not close. Fehr keeps adding provisions, like capping escrow, to essentially throw the whole negotiating process off course. That's what Bettman meant when he said Fehr was "cherry-picking" (I believe). Then he has the nerve to come out and tell everyone they're close when there is no way in hell the Owners accept that sort of provision.
According to the NHL they are not close and I understand that. Yet Fehr keeps insisting they are "close" but yet insists on mediators both last week and this week? Why? Mediators are only for bridging a gap where both parties "feel" they are not close? No? Yes?

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:44 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
What was it that idiot Upshall said on Twitter? Something like, the league has a drop-dead date when they'll come looking for a 'partner'. Another month's pay out the window Scottie
Only someone who has enough money to say the things Upshall says would say the things Upshall says. Or any of the other players that have gone to the various media outlets to call Bettman/owners names, or go at it with a fan or two.

The players, or at least enough of them, have so much money that they can watch however many millions float away, and not care. As long as that's the case, they can waste as much time as they want.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:47 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Um, the owners moved their way on a lot of issues, and the NHLPA (which means the players and Donald Fehr) messed up. Now because they messed up last negotiations they will now see even less movement on the Leagues part.

Do you get it, it's not the fault of the league if the NHLPA and players can't fallow the parameters or things put before them. They caused the derailment of the process, and they don't even have a kickstand to lean on now.
Where did they move? This is the great misconception that I see. And don't get me wrong, I'm more and more sympathetic to the owners' side, but I think people are totally drinking the Kool-Aid now. It's gotten ridiculous.

The two parties agreed on a CBA 8 years ago that most folks felt the owners won. At the end of it, turns out the players made a windfall anyway, and the owners made something indeterminate. Now the owners claim they actually didn't make out well in that last CBA, and are looking to score movement on every single major issue in the CBA this time around.

Now you can make the business argument the health of the league needs this major movement towards the owners' side, but you should simultaneously acknowledge that life doesn't work that way. You don't engage in contracts with another party, then think that other party is going to sign onto the next contract if you've moved every single bogey in your favor (minus the extra peanuts and pillows on flights). It isn't gonna happen.

At this point it would seem the owners have their 50/50 HRR. They're going to get a make whole that allows them to get out of some signed contract money. They'll likely get at least an 8 year CBA too. I think them holding out for 5 year limits, when ostensibly that limit is to protect themselves from owners, not players, is insulting to fans. It baffles me that we're putting that final issue on the players too. That's all owners to me. They got their cake, they ate it, now they want a backrub.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:49 AM
  #345
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League and PA brass met this morning, however no decision has been made on a more formal meeting later today.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...51371868434432

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:51 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Maybe after talking to the PA, the mediator can go to the league and say something along the lines of "The PA is willing to move on X if you're willing to move on Y".
If that is the PA's intention, isn't that what they have Fehr for? He is their negotiating head afterall. If the PA wants to make requests through a mediator, the only thing that makes sense to me is that it's because they feel that the league will be more receptive if it doesn't come from Fehr.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:52 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
The PA should expose the NHL for its crafty accounting. Oh wait..
this is why I am convinced the owners are crushing this negotiation. So far, the player share has been reduced to 50% of the pie and the owners are getting no limitations on how they decide how big the pie is.

Accounting is beyond the understanding of most players and media so this issue is being ignored. IMO, the definition of HRR is either the 1 or 1A issue when determining the winner and the NHLPA was never able to bring it to the table.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:54 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Step 1: Disagree
Step 2: Demand mediation
Step 3: Disagree with mediation
Step 4: Disagree some more
Step 5: Lose a year of pay

Sounds like a recipe for success
Or...

Step 1: Score a CBA victory by all reasonable, media accounts
Step 2: 8 years and countless ridiculous contracts and offer sheets later, claim that CBA failed you
Step 3: Score major movement on HRR
Step 4: Score major movement on existing contracts via a "make (not really) whole" clause
Step 5: Insist on a lengthy CBA to lock in these victories
Step 6: To protect yourself against your other owners, insist on contract limits to score an even bigger victory over players. Risk losing a season over this final crumb.

And surely, Step 7 will be come back and cry poormouth again in 8 years.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:55 AM
  #349
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Well, one side says there was a meeting this am and now the other side says there wasn't. Somewhat humorous.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...52894476300289

Day #89.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:58 AM
  #350
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https://mobile.twitter.com/DarrenDre...4476300289?p=v

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Well, one side says there was a meeting this am and now the other side says there wasn't. Somewhat humorous.
They can't even agree on if there was a meeting between the two of them or not. What in the hell..

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