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Off-Season Madness the 9th: Tom Cheek Memorial Edition

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12-12-2012, 09:31 PM
  #976
dredeye
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That could be one possible reason but also maybe the Braves value him very highly and are willing to give up a young arm with good potential for him. Some gm's get fascinated with certain players (Towers with Didi just as a recent example) so maybe the Braves are crazy high on the guy and willing to overpay in AA's mind. There manager apparently loves the guy so maybe hes pushing management to aquire him?
It's one of those win win scenarios in my mind. He can put a high asking price on him being that he seems to have an amazing reputation around the league and if he can't get what he wants then you have a great super sub which is great for the team anyway. I do think he'd excel in an everyday role and likely will come close to one here. It just won't be at one position here.

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12-12-2012, 09:53 PM
  #977
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Bonafacio can play 3 infield positions and he can play in the OF as well.

He's gonna see plenty of playing time.

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12-12-2012, 10:28 PM
  #978
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One more thing...Sanchez had a 0.72 ERA through 63 IP this season...he finished at like 2.70 or something and only pitched 90 innings, will stretching him out become an issue? It seemed like he really had a tough time to finish the season.

Shouldnt be an issue IMO. 64 innings in 2011 and they streched him to 90 in 2012 but not the first case of a guy tiring after an increased load. He should have a longer leash in 2013, maybe something like 120-130 innings is on the cards.

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12-12-2012, 10:34 PM
  #979
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From the scouting reports I've read, I thought the curve has the potential to be his 2nd best pitch and it was at best below average (with room for development). Whereas the change doesn't project to be as good? From the sounds of it, the secondary offerings need a ton of development.

His fastball is SO good though that he'll AT LEAST make the majors on that one pitch.

Hopefully his secondary stuff catches up though. If it does, he could be scary good.

His offspeed pitches will depend how good he becomes. If his curveball ends up a plus pitch and he gets another above average pitch (change up) along with that fastball Syndergaard has front of the rotation potential.

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12-12-2012, 10:54 PM
  #980
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Nope, he is one of the worst players in the league. He plays a position where you have to hit and he doesn't. He gets on base at a disgusting clip, can't hit lefties and he doesn't rake against righties either to make up for the fact he is completely useless against a lefty.

I would rather see Cooper get everyday playing time over Lind. That's how little I value him.

Over the past 3 seasons, Lind has a combined WAR of -0.2, good for 3rd worst in the league, ahead of only Ty Wigginton and Chone Figgins.

While Cooper's lack of power isn't ideal at least you know he'll hit for good average. Cooper uses an entire field. Plus with Bautista and Encarnacion there is plenty of power in that lineup.

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12-12-2012, 11:19 PM
  #981
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While Cooper's lack of power isn't ideal at least you know he'll hit for good average. Cooper uses an entire field. Plus with Bautista and Encarnacion there is plenty of power in that lineup.
He may not rack up the HR, but Cooper still gets a decent amount of doubles, for someone that would be hitting in the bottom third of the lineup, giving a solid averages and a fair amount of doubles would be more then acceptable.

Another thing is Cooper hits a lot of line drives, so maybe we can get a little more power out of him if he can hit those line drives a little further.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:09 AM
  #982
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Very true. People love Bonifacio because he's the sexy, less known pick who's being hyped right now. Izturis is a very good defensive 2nd basemen and he'll likely get to play ~100 games this year.
No, people like Bonafacio because he's the better player. Rajai Davis brings nothing to the table minus his base stealing. Bonafacio can play multiple positions(some better than others),can run and was pretty good last time he was healthy. Davis is a waste of a roster spot IMO.

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12-13-2012, 08:16 AM
  #983
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Boni was the top fantasy sleeper pick a few years back and it shows why. No reason why this kid shouldn't play more more games than izturis. It really should be a given


Last edited by Felstead: 12-13-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 09:13 AM
  #984
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Boni was the top fantasy sleeper pick a few years back and it shows why. No reason why this kid shouldn't play more more games than izturis. It really should be a given
Izturis is a better 2B, so he should be the starting 2B. That being said, it isn't that difficult to imagine Bonifacio playing more games than Izturis by virtue of backing up nearly every position.

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12-13-2012, 09:26 AM
  #985
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Boni was the top fantasy sleeper pick a few years back and it shows why. No reason why this kid shouldn't play more more games than izturis. It really should be a given
Izturis is and will be our starting second basemen. Bonifacio will get regular playing time however it will be in a number of different positions (including second base) and in key pinch running situations. He's a utility player and will be slotted in a lot of games.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:45 AM
  #986
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Izturis is and will be our starting second basemen. Bonifacio will get regular playing time however it will be in a number of different positions (including second base) and in key pinch running situations. He's a utility player and will be slotted in a lot of games.
152 games In 2011 was utility? Nahh

He woulda played more last year if it not been for his injury. The only way Boni wouldn't play 2b would be because of his D. Which I don't have an opinion on because I just don't know.

I said a month back when the trade broke that this guy is far from utility and apparently the braves don't think he is utility either.

If he avoids injury, his numbers would be solid, moreso than a bench role which I'm sorry... In my opinion doesn't belong.

I will agree he is better suited overall in the outfield, we're just kinda.... Full.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:01 AM
  #987
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Izturis is and will be our starting second basemen. Bonifacio will get regular playing time however it will be in a number of different positions (including second base) and in key pinch running situations. He's a utility player and will be slotted in a lot of games.
Completely agree with this!

Too many fans get caught up in offensive production and severely under value defensive prowess. They will find ways to get Bonifacio into the lineup but Izturis will see the bulk of playing time at second base.

Bonifacio is also far more valuable than Izturis as both a pinch hitter and pinch runner.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Felstead View Post
152 games In 2011 was utility? Nahh

He woulda played more last year if it not been for his injury. The only way Boni wouldn't play 2b would be because of his D. Which I don't have an opinion on because I just don't know.

I said a month back when the trade broke that this guy is far from utility and apparently the braves don't think he is utility either.

If he avoids injury, his numbers would be solid, moreso than a bench role which I'm sorry... In my opinion doesn't belong.

I will agree he is better suited overall in the outfield, we're just kinda.... Full.
I believe AA himself has stated that he'll play in a "Super Utility" role. Not utility in the sense of a guy like Mike McCoy, where he can play multiple positions, but does not play regularly. Rather, a player who plays everyday, but switches positions because he has the ability to do so. Players with his type of flexibility, coupled with his talent, are very valuable. His defense at second (and the infield in general) is not horrible, however, he's a better outfielder (as you stated). In 2011 (his 153 game, 3.3 WAR season), he played 442 innings in the outfield, 543 at SS, 245 at 3B, and 28 at 2B. UZR didn't love him in the middle infield, or CF for that matter, however I've never been a huge fan of that metric.

I don't view him as a true bench player, however, I think he fits a role of an individual who plays 4 out of every 5 games, spelling people at different positions. If Reyes needs a day off because of the turf, then he can play SS (though Izturis is would probably play SS, and he'd be at 2B). If you want Jose to DH, then he can play a good RF. Tough lefty for Colby, then he has the range to play CF. He'll be an "everyday player", but he won't be the full time 2B. He's never filled that role in his career to date.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:36 AM
  #989
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boston has loads of money to spend and now look to be getting dempster

Red Sox, Dempster Nearing Deal
The Red Sox are close to a deal with Ryan Dempster, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Red Sox were in serious talks with Dempster. LSW Baseball represents the free agent right-hander.

age 35
12- 8 - 3.38
173.0 155 71 65 52 153

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #990
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bonifacio really should be an everyday player
if not here than somewhere else
i would rather see izturis used as the so-called 'super sub'


jon morosi (fox sports) on jeff blair fan590

- would take bonifacio in a second over rasmus in cf (noting rasmus should be the guy to trade)
- marlins were doing ok until bonifacio got hurt (he meant that much to them)

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
I believe AA himself has stated that he'll play in a "Super Utility" role. Not utility in the sense of a guy like Mike McCoy, where he can play multiple positions, but does not play regularly. Rather, a player who plays everyday, but switches positions because he has the ability to do so. Players with his type of flexibility, coupled with his talent, are very valuable. His defense at second (and the infield in general) is not horrible, however, he's a better outfielder (as you stated). In 2011 (his 153 game, 3.3 WAR season), he played 442 innings in the outfield, 543 at SS, 245 at 3B, and 28 at 2B. UZR didn't love him in the middle infield, or CF for that matter, however I've never been a huge fan of that metric.

I don't view him as a true bench player, however, I think he fits a role of an individual who plays 4 out of every 5 games, spelling people at different positions. If Reyes needs a day off because of the turf, then he can play SS (though Izturis is would probably play SS, and he'd be at 2B). If you want Jose to DH, then he can play a good RF. Tough lefty for Colby, then he has the range to play CF. He'll be an "everyday player", but he won't be the full time 2B. He's never filled that role in his career to date.
I can agree with this, if he's playing every 4 out of 5. Then that's good enough for me, long as he's playing. Would comment more but I'm on the road

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:08 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
boston has loads of money to spend and now look to be getting dempster

Red Sox, Dempster Nearing Deal
The Red Sox are close to a deal with Ryan Dempster, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Red Sox were in serious talks with Dempster. LSW Baseball represents the free agent right-hander.

age 35
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I prefer this Dempster statline much more:

7-3 5.09
69.0 1.43


I wouldn't have touched him with a ten foot pole. Doesn't have the stuff to be successful in the AL, let alone the AL East

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:23 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
bonifacio really should be an everyday player
if not here than somewhere else
i would rather see izturis used as the so-called 'super sub'


jon morosi (fox sports) on jeff blair fan590

- would take bonifacio in a second over rasmus in cf (noting rasmus should be the guy to trade)
- marlins were doing ok until bonifacio got hurt (he meant that much to them)
So they'd both be playing most games, but you'd rather have the worse defender playing 2nd at all times, and izturis rotating through the outfield??? Bonifacio is going to get tons of playing time, so his bat is in the lineup if that's the part of his game you like. He just won't always be at 2nd base.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #994
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Baseball Prospectus Jays top 10

1. C Travis d'Arnaud
2. RHP Noah Syndergaard
3. RHP Aaron Sanchez
4. LHP Sean Nolin
5. CF D.J. Davis
6. RHP Roberto Osuna
7. LHP Daniel Norris
8. RHP Marcus Stroman
9. LHP Matt Smoral
10. RHP Alberto Tirado

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12-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Shouldnt be an issue IMO. 64 innings in 2011 and they streched him to 90 in 2012 but not the first case of a guy tiring after an increased load. He should have a longer leash in 2013, maybe something like 120-130 innings is on the cards.
I doubt he was tiring, I believe it was luck catching up to him.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
bonifacio really should be an everyday player
if not here than somewhere else
i would rather see izturis used as the so-called 'super sub'


jon morosi (fox sports) on jeff blair fan590

- would take bonifacio in a second over rasmus in cf (noting rasmus should be the guy to trade)
- marlins were doing ok until bonifacio got hurt (he meant that much to them)
We will see what happens in spring training. I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen. Boni has blazing speed which will make him an offensive threat when on base. Im sure if he was given consistent starts at a position he would be able to iron out his d a little bit.

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12-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
boston has loads of money to spend and now look to be getting dempster

Red Sox, Dempster Nearing Deal
The Red Sox are close to a deal with Ryan Dempster, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Red Sox were in serious talks with Dempster. LSW Baseball represents the free agent right-hander.

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Not to worried about Dempster, the AL East will treat him poorly.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Baseball Prospectus Jays top 10

1. C Travis d'Arnaud
2. RHP Noah Syndergaard
3. RHP Aaron Sanchez
4. LHP Sean Nolin
5. CF D.J. Davis
6. RHP Roberto Osuna
7. LHP Daniel Norris
8. RHP Marcus Stroman
9. LHP Matt Smoral
10. RHP Alberto Tirado
That pitching depth is still ridiculous. What's even more impressive is how many of the older prospects pitchers still have a chance to play big time roles.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #999
weems
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That pitching depth is still ridiculous. What's even more impressive is how many of the older prospects pitchers still have a chance to play big time roles.
It's still a really solid system prolly in the #5-#10 ranked area.

Lots of young upside arms left.

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12-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #1000
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Baseball Prospectus Jays top 10

1. C Travis d'Arnaud
2. RHP Noah Syndergaard
3. RHP Aaron Sanchez
4. LHP Sean Nolin
5. CF D.J. Davis
6. RHP Roberto Osuna
7. LHP Daniel Norris
8. RHP Marcus Stroman
9. LHP Matt Smoral
10. RHP Alberto Tirado
Good list. Interesting to see Tirado that high. Nice to see Sean Nolin keep getting more and more love. Smoral will shoot up all the lists come next fall. I'm also a big believer in D.J. Davis. This list has him the highest I've seen in this falls rankings.

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