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Roster Talk '13 Canada 3.0

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #801
Mr Writer
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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
So Xavier Oullet will become the 2nd player in as many years to make Team Canada without playing a scrimmage game. Not that I dont think he doesnt deserve to be on the team (because he does) but no offence, but hes not Jonathan Huberdeau

I think its time Hockey Canada cuts the crap with the 36 - 40 players camp and just do what the Americans do, that is bring in 3 - 4 extra forwards, and 2 - 3 extra D.

I know Steve Spott would have preferred this (firstly because he said he wanted a small camp, second because no one was added for Scissons), but you really get the feeling HC wouldnt let that be the case with the lockout
I think you may have a point, especially if you think of the highly competitive nature of trying to win a spot on the team, the intensity you need to bring from the opening scrimmage, perhaps a few players suffer from burnout before the tournament ends when you consider the pressure they have playing the tournament especially in years when it's in Canada. It could explain the inability to finish the past 2 years. The OT game in Saskatoon 3 years ago I don't count... hey they got to OT in the gold medal game, one team had to come out on top, it just so happened the Americans got it done in OT. That's hockey!! I think HC has to reexamine everything they do from time to time and that includes selection camp.

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12-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
So what's your point? That Ouellet isn't one of the 4 best D available for this tournament? Dude is a rock back there... Poise, mobility, solid D, what more do you need?
I think he means that Ouellet isn't far and away good enough to not have to show a thing at camp. I see what he's saying. Admittedly, I don't know much about Ouellet to make an opinion, but it's pretty high praise to make the team without really skating at all.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #803
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Have to get a guess out there so here we go. Could not for the life of me settle on a set of lines. I'm a big believer in chemistry so have Ritchie with Strome, which bumps Rattie to line 3. Hated cutting Drouin but Shinkaruk has outplayed him. We shall see!

Huberdeau (C) - RNH (A) Scheifele (A)
MacKinnon Strome Ritchie
Hudon Jenner (A) Rattie
Wilson McNeill Danault
Shinkaruk

Hamilton (A) Rielly
Ouellet Harrington
Reinhart Corrado
Murphy

Subban
Paterson
Binnington

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:28 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Then guys who have shown better than expected: Corrado, Shinkaruk, Drouin wouldn't have even got invited.

Canada HAS to have a big camp, that is how deep the talent pool is in this country.

Not many people had Shinkaruk or Corrado getting a sniff, and right now they've been two of the better performers so far.
This exactly. While 2/3 of the team may be proverbial locks, there are still a good chunk of positions that come down to camp. You also get a chance to see chemistry etc. Ie Ritchie with Strome, see if Mackinnon and Drouin can still complement each other on smaller ice.

For guys like Reinhart and Corrado their play together today could very well be the decision on whether or not Spott wants to take them as that 3rd pairing.

Murphy and Sproul could definitely seal their own fate today as well.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
I think he means that Ouellet isn't far and away good enough to not have to show a thing at camp. I see what he's saying. Admittedly, I don't know much about Ouellet to make an opinion, but it's pretty high praise to make the team without really skating at all.
That's exactly what I gathered from his post. And that's where we somewhat disagree I guess; I'm positive Ouellet is top 4 in the country right now, minus Murray's injury. But it's a vast territory so I've seen way more of Ouellet than say Dumba this season as I reside in Quebec. I've been wrong before(a lot) but Ouellet has everything you need for your back end.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
I think he means that Ouellet isn't far and away good enough to not have to show a thing at camp. I see what he's saying. Admittedly, I don't know much about Ouellet to make an opinion, but it's pretty high praise to make the team without really skating at all.
Isn't he also nursing an ankle injury or something at the moment? That is probably why he hasn't played at all.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
I think he means that Ouellet isn't far and away good enough to not have to show a thing at camp. I see what he's saying. Admittedly, I don't know much about Ouellet to make an opinion, but it's pretty high praise to make the team without really skating at all.
Ouellet has been on another level from the guys who are battling for a spot right now. Murphy, Sproul, Corrado etc. havent had seasons as dominant as what Ouellet did last year except for maybe Murphy in his draft year. Ouellet also had a really good summer series and an unreal star to the season.

Hes not on the level of Hamilton or Rielly but hes also a notch above the other guys battling for spots this year. He wouldve only played one scrimmage anyways, a couple super series and that summer series for the russians is probably enough to make a player a lock with the Q seasons Ouellet has had to back up his resume.

I dont think many know much about him because hes in the Q and was a second round pick but his 18 year old season was about as dominant as they get for Q dmen. I think he was like the only Q dman to break 60 points in his 18 year old season in like 5 years, he did it in about 60 games and hes just as good if not better defensively then he is offensively. When he was drafted the wings didnt even think he had much for offense and thought he would just give a good first pass but play shut down d for them. Its changed since then and hes the best Q dman, Dougies the top in the O and I'm assuming Rielly is the best in the dub. Makes sense they would have the top from each league as locks

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
So Xavier Oullet will become the 2nd player in as many years to make Team Canada without playing a scrimmage game. Not that I dont think he doesnt deserve to be on the team (because he does) but no offence, but hes not Jonathan Huberdeau

I think its time Hockey Canada cuts the crap with the 36 - 40 players camp and just do what the Americans do, that is bring in 3 - 4 extra forwards, and 2 - 3 extra D.

I know Steve Spott would have preferred this (firstly because he said he wanted a small camp, second because no one was added for Scissons), but you really get the feeling HC wouldnt let that be the case with the lockout

They would've had only 30-32 players at camp but they brought more in case of the recall to the NHL.

It could've meant the loss of RNH, Hubredeau, Shiefele, Murray (had he not been injured), Hamilton, Rielly.

Plus they like to bring in some 17 year olds to give them a taste for camp. (in this case a few of them may surplant some 19 yr olds)

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #809
Bob Barker
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Thanks for the respectful, insightful responses.

He just doesn't have the star appeal or draft history that you'd expect when you get to just walk on. Last year it was Huberdeau, big name star, 3rd overall pick.

Like I said, I know very little about Ouellet, so if he's as good as you guys are saying, he'll be great for Team Canada to have back there. None of the mainstream media seem to be surprised by this move either, so that's saying something as well.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
Thanks for the respectful, insightful responses.

He just doesn't have the star appeal or draft history that you'd expect when you get to just walk on. Last year it was Huberdeau, big name star, 3rd overall pick.

Like I said, I know very little about Ouellet, so if he's as good as you guys are saying, he'll be great for Team Canada to have back there. None of the mainstream media seem to be surprised by this move either, so that's saying something as well.
Plus last year wasn't a lockout year. So much more talent here this year.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
Thanks for the respectful, insightful responses.

He just doesn't have the star appeal or draft history that you'd expect when you get to just walk on. Last year it was Huberdeau, big name star, 3rd overall pick.

Like I said, I know very little about Ouellet, so if he's as good as you guys are saying, he'll be great for Team Canada to have back there. None of the mainstream media seem to be surprised by this move either, so that's saying something as well.
He's not really a walk on. He's played for Canada at other levels... And had a big super series.

That was a bigger audition than a couple games against CIS teams would be

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #812
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Huberdeau-Nugent Hopkins-Schiefele
Hudon-Strome-Ritchie
Danault-Jenner-MacNeil
Drouin-Mackinnon-Rattie
Wilson

Reilly-Hamilton
Ouellette-Harrington
Reinhart-Corrado
Murphy

Subban
Binnington
Patterson

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
Lines for today...

Drouin - Danault - Rattie
Hudon - MacKinnon - Ritchie
Shinkaruk - Catenacci - Wilson
Camara - McNeill - Lipon

Reinhart - Carrado
Murphy - Sproul
Wotherspoon - Dumba

Brossoit
Subban

https://twitter.com/hc_teamcanada/st...54023259947011
Interesting lineup. Looks like Reinhart Corrado vs Wotherspoon Dumba for 5&6 and Murphy vs Sproul for 7. Front runners right now are Reinhart, Corrado and Murphy.

Those top two forward lines should see all those players make it unless they have a truly terrible game. The bottom two lines look like an audition for the last two spots on the fourth line. I'm glad they keep breaking up MacKinnon and Drouin. We need to see them excel separately to justify them both making it. With RNH, Strome and Jenner sitting out two games, we've seen MacKinnon play center most of the camp. That's great for his showing since he is most comfortable there, but I would have liked to see him play wing more through the camp as that is where he could likely end up playing in the tournament.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #814
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All I am saying is that if the Beauvilier's of the world are getting cut 90% of the time regardless of how they play, than dont call them.

There is no way you can say that Matt Dumba at this camp was better than Derrick Pouliot, but Dumba got the nod because of his past work. I am ok with that. My problem is that by having extra bodies around, it can have a psychological effect on the guys who are struggling (like a Dumba) and that can carry over into the actual tournament (see jared cown 2010)

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #815
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Predictions for final roster

Defense:

Hamilton
Reilly
Oulette
Harrington
Reinhart
Corrado
Dumba


Offense:

RNH
Huberdeau
Scheifle
Ritchie
Strome
Danault
MacKinnon
Drouin
Rattie
Jenner
McNeill
Hudon
Shinkaruk

Perhaps substitute Wilson in for one of Rattie or Drouin, but I just like those guys too much to do it myself.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:55 AM
  #816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
All I am saying is that if the Beauvilier's of the world are getting cut 90% of the time regardless of how they play, than dont call them.

There is no way you can say that Matt Dumba at this camp was better than Derrick Pouliot, but Dumba got the nod because of his past work. I am ok with that. My problem is that by having extra bodies around, it can have a psychological effect on the guys who are struggling (like a Dumba) and that can carry over into the actual tournament (see jared cown 2010)
If they can't handle the pressure of having to actually fight for their position, what makes you think they can handle the pressure of playing in the World Jrs? That's another plus about having a bigger camp, you see who steps up and who flounders under the pressure.

Is every player going to have the same opportunity to make the team? No, it's not realistic, it's human nature. If you are one of the bubble players in camp you need to do something to get noticed. Monahan, Beauvilier, Graovac, Pelech and Pouliot didn't play bad but they were bubble players and didn't do anything to make them stand out in a good way. And on the otherside, rightly or wrongly other players are going to have a longer leash, Dumba, and Murphy have not had good camps but because of their pedigree and history are given longer leashes.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:01 PM
  #817
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Damn it is going to be sad to see one of Drouin and Shinkaruk go. I feel like you can make it work with one in the top 6 and another as the 13th since they have both looked great, but it just doesn't seem like a Hockey Canada thing to do.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:02 PM
  #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
If they can't handle the pressure of having to actually fight for their position, what makes you think they can handle the pressure of playing in the World Jrs? That's another plus about having a bigger camp, you see who steps up and who flounders under the pressure.
What does that have to do with pressure? There is and was zero pressure on Beauvillier. Everyone knows he won't make it unless he pots a hat trick in each tryout game. There is not much pressure on these bubble guys that have no real shot of making the team unless they have a game or two of their lives which is why it's even foolish to invite them.

If anything the pressure is there on guys like Dumba, who is buckling under it.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:03 PM
  #819
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I don't like this Graovac cutting thing.

He played well, really well and this makes me wonder what he should have done more to not get cut? Especially as he was one of the first to get cut.

He doesn't get chance next year so why invite him at all rather than some younger kid who could get in next year.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:13 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
What does that have to do with pressure? There is and was zero pressure on Beauvillier. Everyone knows he won't make it unless he pots a hat trick in each tryout game. There is not much pressure on these bubble guys that have no real shot of making the team unless they have a game or two of their lives which is why it's even foolish to invite them.

If anything the pressure is there on guys like Dumba, who is buckling under it.
You are underestimating how good an experience getting invited to the camp is. Had Beauvillier potted 1-2 goals in the 2 games he'd still be in camp. Beauvillier had the same opportunity as the other bubble players but didn't play as well as them at the camp.

I wasn't talking about Beauvillier in terms of pressure I was talking about Dumba/Murphy.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Hank4Hart View Post
As a goalie, your job is to let in less goal that the guy 200 feet away from you. Price outperformed the other goalie, thats ALL that matters. I could care less if he gave up 4 goals out of 7 shots or whatever it was as long as it was one less than Frazee.
Shut up, he had a bad shootout. That's all I've been saying. He did, theres no other way around it. He played bad in the shootout. FACT!!

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:25 PM
  #822
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What time does the game start at and will there be a stream?

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:27 PM
  #823
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A lot of people have Mackinnon in the top 6 at wing but they haven't tried him at wing at all in the camp so I think he's gonna be 4th line C or 13th Forward. The top 6 seems fairly set with Huberdeau-RNH-Scheifele and Hudon-Strome-Ritchie.

Putting him between Hudon and Ritchie today seems like they want to get a look at him if they need someone to play C in the top 6. Say if RNH had to go back to NHL and they bumped Strome up to the top line ?

Based on today's lines
Here's how things look to me

Huberdeau-Hopkins-Scheifele
Played together one game and have sat since

Hudon-Strome-Ritchie
Hudon and Ritchie together again today and Strome plays with Ritchie already

Danault-Jenner-Mcneill
Danault and Jenner are locks, adding Mcneill makes it a great shutdown line.

Drouin-Mackinnon-Rattie
Drouin and Rattie on same line again today. Mackinnon has only been used at C so makes sense to put him here.

Camara
If i'm correct and they do go with 3 scoring lines, they'd probably want a big body here. I think Camara has been the best player remaining that could fill that role.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #824
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What time does the game start at and will there be a stream?
2 PM Eastern, Fasthockey.com for a stream.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:29 PM
  #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_robio View Post
A lot of people have Mackinnon in the top 6 at wing but they haven't tried him at wing at all in the camp so I think he's gonna be 4th line C or 13th Forward. The top 6 seems fairly set with Huberdeau-RNH-Scheifele and Hudon-Strome-Ritchie.

Putting him between Hudon and Ritchie today seems like they want to get a look at him if they need someone to play C in the top 6. Say if RNH had to go back to NHL and they bumped Strome up to the top line ?

Based on today's lines
Here's how things look to me

Huberdeau-Hopkins-Scheifele
Played together one game and have sat since

Hudon-Strome-Ritchie
Hudon and Ritchie together again today and Strome plays with Ritchie already

Danault-Jenner-Mcneill
Danault and Jenner are locks, adding Mcneill makes it a great shutdown line.

Drouin-Mackinnon-Rattie
Drouin and Rattie on same line again today. Mackinnon has only been used at C so makes sense to put him here.

Camara
If i'm correct and they do go with 3 scoring lines, they'd probably want a big body here. I think Camara has been the best player remaining that could fill that role.
I really like these lines, I love that you didn't list the checking line behind MacKinnons either.

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