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Rochester Americans / Minors Thread '12-'13 Ed.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #551
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Any guesses on how much of how the Sabres have handled Girgensons has been respecting his wishes? And how much is them dictating to him?


I know he has said he had no interest in playing juniors. At least for the team that has his rights. Are there any quotes out there giving us an idea how he feels about not going to world juniors?

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12-13-2012, 10:21 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Any guesses on how much of how the Sabres have handled Girgensons has been respecting his wishes? And how much is them dictating to him?


I know he has said he had no interest in playing juniors. At least for the team that has his rights. Are there any quotes out there giving us an idea how he feels about not going to world juniors?
I still don't understand why they rushed this kid when he wasn't ready for the AHL, especially with the lockout.

He is the one taking up a spot of a proven AHL veteran forward everyone seems to agree we are lacking. They are forced to play him top 3 lines when he is healthy and doesn't do much outside of forcheck hard and play the body.

He belonged in Hockey East for 2-3 years to develop his game more. If they didn't like the school he was going to - fine, send him to junior hockey for at least a year. He had a good development camp and everyone rushed to get him to Rochester.

I can go through the list of 1st round drafted forwards from 3-4-5 years back who are STILL struggling in the AHL. I don't think it was a fluke that so many defenseman went high in this years draft- the forward pool just wasn't very good- especially on high end talent.

Maybe he will turn out one day (although I don't see it being anything above a 3rd line player)he just doesn't have a top 2 line skill set. And before everyone jumps all over me, YES I know he is still very young....time will tell

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12-13-2012, 10:39 AM
  #553
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I'm amused to see the wide range of posts on Girgensons. One post says the guy is going to be a 2nd line NHL forward the next year, next post says he should be back in college.

Kinda hilarious.

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12-13-2012, 11:08 AM
  #554
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Some people just clearly haven't watched him and others have a clear agenda that they're sticking to.

I like Gigensons, and I'm about the most critical fan out there. He plays a 3rd line checking/PK type of role and does it well. The fact that he looks pretty solid in a locked out AHL at 18 years old seems like it bodes well for him and the organization.

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12-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #555
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I really think one year at a higher competition level (either CHL or Vermont) though would really help his adjustment...regardless of his physical abilities, it's still a huge jump.

I think once he really gets comfortable in the A he'll start to show us why he was picked in the 1st round, but it's going to take some time to get there.

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12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Some people just clearly haven't watched him and others have a clear agenda that they're sticking to.

I like Gigensons, and I'm about the most critical fan out there. He plays a 3rd line checking/PK type of role and does it well. The fact that he looks pretty solid in a locked out AHL at 18 years old seems like it bodes well for him and the organization.
For a fan that is extremely critical of this organization and how they lack the foresight with signing vet players, i find it strange you agree with this.

There isn't one league on this planet that plays an underager on the 3 or 4th line. If he can not contribute on a first or a second he needs to be sent down.

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12-13-2012, 11:22 AM
  #557
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For a fan that is extremely critical of this organization and how they lack the foresight with signing vet players, i find it strange you agree with this.

There isn't one league on this planet that plays an underager on the 3 or 4th line. If he can not contribute on a first or a second he needs to be sent down.
I don't complain for the sake of complaining. My criticisms of the organization are real.

In this case, what reasons are there that he needs to be sent down? Is there a rule stating AHL teams can't play rookies on 3rd lines?

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12-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #558
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I don't complain for the sake of complaining. My criticisms of the organization are real.

In this case, what reasons are there that he needs to be sent down? Is there a rule stating AHL teams can't play rookies on 3rd lines?
Rookies yes, but not underagers. The 3 and 4th lines are primarily energy and grinding players and as an underager he has not become physically mature enough to match up against the older competition. It is easier to play on top two lines if a player is highly skilled and plays that role.

I feel he would be better suited for a lower tier league for now. That is all.


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12-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Some people just clearly haven't watched him and others have a clear agenda that they're sticking to.

I like Gigensons, and I'm about the most critical fan out there. He plays a 3rd line checking/PK type of role and does it well. The fact that he looks pretty solid in a locked out AHL at 18 years old seems like it bodes well for him and the organization.
Except he DOESN'T kill penalties. I have watched/attended almost every game this year- I haven't seen much from him. When the team is fully healthy HE will be the one on the top 3 lines taking up the spot of the much needed AHL Veteran you are always complaining we don't have. You can't have it both ways.

A year or 2 in juniors or college would have helped him develop his gam so it was AHL ready. I don't see him developing much getting 8 minutes a night here.

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12-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #560
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Except he DOESN'T kill penalties. I have watched/attended almost every game this year- I haven't seen much from him. When the team is fully healthy HE will be the one on the top 3 lines taking up the spot of the much needed AHL Veteran you are always complaining we don't have. You can't have it both ways.

A year or 2 in juniors or college would have helped him develop his gam so it was AHL ready. I don't see him developing much getting 8 minutes a night here.
I've seen him on the PK several times.

And what do I want both ways? If Girgensons went to Vermont, he would not have been replaced with a veteran forward. Flynn just would have played from the start.

And he plays more than 8 minutes a night, sorry.

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12-13-2012, 12:10 PM
  #561
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I've seen him on the PK several times.

And what do I want both ways? If Girgensons went to Vermont, he would not have been replaced with a veteran forward. Flynn just would have played from the start.

And he plays more than 8 minutes a night, sorry.
Well now he is taking up that spot- they won't sign another forward when they HAVE to play Girgensons. Their hands are tied after signing him. So who sits when Hodgson and Rankin come back out of the top 9? Foligno, Hodgson, Flynn, Adam, Mancari, Porter, Sundher, Rankin , AHL Vet, Girgensons? That makes 10 for 9 spots...I guess you would say Sundher who was great last game- what about his development?

He is definitely not in their regular PK rotation, doesn't play PP when everyone is healthy- strictly 5 on 5.

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12-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #562
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Well now he is taking up that spot- they won't sign another forward when they HAVE to play Girgensons. Their hands are tied after signing him. So who sits when Hodgson and Rankin come back out of the top 9? Foligno, Hodgson, Flynn, Adam, Mancari, Porter, Sundher, Rankin , AHL Vet, Girgensons? That makes 10 for 9 spots...I guess you would say Sundher who was great last game- what about his development?

He is definitely not in their regular PK rotation, doesn't play PP when everyone is healthy- strictly 5 on 5.
I really don't know what you're talking about. And you've given no explanation as to why you think his game isn't ready. He's good defensively, blocks shots, hard along the wall, wins battles. His offensive game is not developed, but they'e clearly easing him into that.

The top 9 when everyone is healthy is Hodgson, Foligno, Mancari, Porter, Flynn, Adam, Rankin, Varone and Girgensons. Like it was from the start. Tarnasky, Schofield and Roy/Legault/Sundher on the 4th line.

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12-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #563
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Just so we're clear, since my post seemed to set off this back and forth. I'm asking if there are any quotes from Girgensons about playing in WJC?

I ask because it seems like him being in the AHL as opposed to playing in juniors is something he wanted to do. At least based in some of his comments. Im not debating or asking opinions on the merit of that choice.

So with that in mind did Girgensons have any recent comments anout going or not going to the WJC? As in was it his desire to stay or does he want to go and the team said no?

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12-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #564
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Haven't heard anything either way. Kevin O speculated that the Sabres think his development is better served in Rochester than the WJC's.

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12-13-2012, 01:02 PM
  #565
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I really don't know what you're talking about. And you've given no explanation as to why you think his game isn't ready. He's good defensively, blocks shots, hard along the wall, wins battles. His offensive game is not developed, but they'e clearly easing him into that.

The top 9 when everyone is healthy is Hodgson, Foligno, Mancari, Porter, Flynn, Adam, Rankin, Varone and Girgensons. Like it was from the start. Tarnasky, Schofield and Roy/Legault/Sundher on the 4th line.
He is fine in some aspects that you mentioned but isn't that type of player typically designated to 4th line duty? Maybe that is where he should be playing.

OK so if they had another AHL Veteran(which you so desperately want), who sits out of that top 9? Rankin? Adam? Flynn? Varone? Mancari making $250,000 ?

My feeling is Sundher deserves to be on a top 3 line over Girgensons- why not send him to college or juniors?

What if Tropp hadn't been hurt? That adds another forward to the mix then Sundher and Flynn still sit because they want to play an 18 year old who could have gone somewhere else and developed his game?

And no- I haven't seen or heard any quotes regarding whether or not he wanted to play WJC's.

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12-13-2012, 01:26 PM
  #566
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Were there people who expected much from Girgensons in the first half of the season? While I would have preferred for him and/or the organization to have a change of heart about Kelowna, I understood when the decision was made to keep him in Rochester that it was going to be a long, slow road in his first season+, especially against the talent level currently in the AHL. I expect him progress as the season goes on--just as he was prior to his injury, relative to his first few games--and, if the lockout does end and the AHL talent level dilutes, I expect him to finish strong.

And for those seemingly complaining about his offensive skillset or that he won't be anything more than a 3rd liner, the Sabres drafted him to be top-notch, two-way horse at the center position who brings competitiveness and leadership to the roster, and can matchup against the top offensive players in the league. Who cares if he's never anything more than a 45-50 pt player in the NHL? Goal prevention is as important as goal production.

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12-13-2012, 01:37 PM
  #567
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He is fine in some aspects that you mentioned but isn't that type of player typically designated to 4th line duty? Maybe that is where he should be playing.
Depends on the team. He's better suited on the 3rd line than Legault. It's debatable with Sunder, but Girgensons has played a lot more.

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OK so if they had another AHL Veteran(which you so desperately want), who sits out of that top 9? Rankin? Adam? Flynn? Varone? Mancari making $250,000 ?
It's not going to happen. But hypothetically, Girgensons would be out of the top 9 if a vet forward was brought in.

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My feeling is Sundher deserves to be on a top 3 line over Girgensons- why not send him to college or juniors?
Yes and no. He's quicker and looks to have more skill right now. But he hasn't played much and he's been invisible at times.

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What if Tropp hadn't been hurt? That adds another forward to the mix then Sundher and Flynn still sit because they want to play an 18 year old who could have gone somewhere else and developed his game?
No, Flynn would still be playing and someone like Legault would be out of the lineup. But this is a stupid hypothetical anyway.

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12-13-2012, 01:52 PM
  #568
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Depends on the team. He's better suited on the 3rd line than Legault. It's debatable with Sunder, but Girgensons has played a lot more.


It's not going to happen. But hypothetically, Girgensons would be out of the top 9 if a vet forward was brought in.


Yes and no. He's quicker and looks to have more skill right now. But he hasn't played much and he's been invisible at times.


No, Flynn would still be playing and someone like Legault would be out of the lineup. But this is a stupid hypothetical anyway.
I don't see them taking him out of the top 9 in any situation... they started him there with everyone healthy- this is kind of my point on why they won't bring in a veteran forward, they would be forced to either sit one of their top guys or drop Girgensons to 4th line.

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12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #569
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I don't see them taking him out of the top 9 in any situation... they started him there with everyone healthy- this is kind of my point on why they won't bring in a veteran forward, they would be forced to either sit one of their top guys or drop Girgensons to 4th line.
Why do you keep talking about veteran forwards in this discussion? It has nothing to do with Girgensons. They aren't signing one now. They weren't signing one if he went to Vermont.

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12-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #570
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Were there people who expected much from Girgensons in the first half of the season? While I would have preferred for him and/or the organization to have a change of heart about Kelowna, I understood when the decision was made to keep him in Rochester that it was going to be a long, slow road in his first season+, especially against the talent level currently in the AHL. I expect him progress as the season goes on--just as he was prior to his injury, relative to his first few games--and, if the lockout does end and the AHL talent level dilutes, I expect him to finish strong.

And for those seemingly complaining about his offensive skillset or that he won't be anything more than a 3rd liner, the Sabres drafted him to be top-notch, two-way horse at the center position who brings competitiveness and leadership to the roster, and can matchup against the top offensive players in the league. Who cares if he's never anything more than a 45-50 pt player in the NHL? Goal prevention is as important as goal production.
True, but I myself was hoping he would turn into a player like Backes. Of course I'm not ruling it out, he has a good head on his shoulders and I doubt one bad year will affect him too much. I have faith in the guy. The talent level is extraordinarily high this year in the AHL so if the lockout ends it could be very good for him.

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12-13-2012, 03:04 PM
  #571
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Why do you keep talking about veteran forwards in this discussion? It has nothing to do with Girgensons. They aren't signing one now. They weren't signing one if he went to Vermont.
Again I guess this contradicts your many posts when you question what are the Amerks here for, winning over developing for the Sabres.

I think they are more inclined to play developing individuals over superior players for the sake of winning. Girgensons is another one of these players who is taking up a spot of a vet. Having said that he is much better than Roy, but the point of signing any more vets is a pipe dream anyways.

IMO I feel this team only expresses the desire to win should only be taken at face value. Their need to portray winning is important is just for keeping the fans interested. Can you imagine what would happen if the team said they could care less about the outcome of any games.


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12-13-2012, 03:08 PM
  #572
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Why do you keep talking about veteran forwards in this discussion? It has nothing to do with Girgensons. They aren't signing one now. They weren't signing one if he went to Vermont.
Beacause you are always posting about bringing in a veteran guy. They don't have room for one(partly because they are playing Girgensons top 9). Sure they did when 5 forwards went down but then when everyone comes back it creates a log jam.

So your plan is to bring in a veteran forward and bump Girgensons to 4th line, correct? This is part of the reason they won't bring someone in....they want him in a top 9 role, which I think is hurting this team you care so much about.


My move would have been to send him to college, sign a veteran to fill his top 9 spot and let him develop there for a couple years...

I'm not sure what I am not being clear about...

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12-13-2012, 03:15 PM
  #573
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Again I guess this contradicts your many posts when you question what are the Amerks here for, winning over developing for the Sabres.
I've never ever said that here, and I'm getting tired of constantly being misrepresented.

I'm well aware of the purpose of the AHL. It involves developing prospects. It also involves winning since it's a professional league with a long history and many devoted fans who pay good money to be entertained and watch their team win games and championships.

A good organization addresses both. They develop and they make an effort to win. It's not one or the other. They don't each operate in a vacuum.

So can we please get this garbage out of the way that I think the AHL is 100% to win and 0 to develop?

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12-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #574
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I've never ever said that here, and I'm getting tired of constantly being misrepresented.

I'm well aware of the purpose of the AHL. It involves developing prospects. It also involves winning since it's a professional league with a long history and many devoted fans who pay good money to be entertained and watch their team win games and championships.

A good organization addresses both. They develop and they make an effort to win. It's not one or the other. They don't each operate in a vacuum.

So can we please get this garbage out of the way that I think the AHL is 100% to win and 0 to develop?
You said it, a good organization must find balance between developing and winning, if we like it or not this one doesn't. This teams MO is to sign the minimum number of quality players and let the other teams fill their rosters will talent. Play against quality is better than playing with quality and in the long haul this may develop this organizations players.

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12-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #575
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You said it, a good organization must find balance between developing and winning, if we like it or not this one doesn't. This teams MO is to sign the minimum number of quality players and let the other teams fill their rosters will talent. Play against quality is better than playing with quality and in the long haul this may develop this organizations players.
I'm not sure there's even a correlation between winning and developing players for the NHL. It certainly doesn't hurt, though.

However, I do believe the Sabres, and any other NHL team for that matter, has a responsibility to that team's fans, employees, coaches, sponsors etc. to put a winner on the ice. Or at least make an effort.

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