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Okposo to SJ

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:33 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Something around Braun+ and Grabner is probably the only deal that might make sense between SJ and the Isles.
Makes very little sense for the NYI to trade Granber, who's scored a total of 54 goals over the last 2 yrs and the biggest piece coming to LI, will be a d-man for their 3rd pairing.

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12-13-2012, 10:11 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sharks4Life View Post
While I agree that the Isles shouldn't be trading Okposo as he is a core player on a good contract, you have to joking about a deal around burns which seems to imply that the plus would be added from the sharks which is insane. As for the burns and pavs for okposo and nielsen plus...unless that plus is tavares then keep dreaming.
I never understand responses like this. The general theme is that Isles fans don't want to trade Okposo. Thus, they say it would take a return of Burns to get them to consider it. Whether or not the value matches is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Why would the Isles trade Grabner for a pending UFA?

The Isles and the Sharks look like bad trading partners.
I don't necessarily agree. I think Pavelski could be had for the right price, and he could fill a huge need at 1st line RW. He only has one year remaining after this season, but depending on the cost I'd be very interested.

Playing 1st line minutes with Tavares and Moulson could convince anyone to stay. It would probably all come down to whether or not the Isles would be willing to give him a possible $5M+ per year.

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12-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
It would have to be in a deal for a 2nd pairing Dman who is not on an expiring contract. Preferably with a righty shot, or with size. Honestly, I don't see a fit with the Sharks. I don't know enough about Braun or Demers to know whether the value would be worth it. But if I'm trading for less than a guy who has played 20 minutes a night, it would be Bailey, not Grabner.

Cheers

Dan-o
If that is the case then maybe a trade Braun or Demers for Bailey makes sense. The sharks could really use some help on the third line and Bailey could provide that. Both Braun and Demers are RH defensemen that can play on the second pairing going forward. Neither has been a second pairing guy for and extended period of time on the sharks but that has more to do with the sharks defensive core than either's ability.

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12-13-2012, 10:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Makes very little sense for the NYI to trade Granber, who's scored a total of 54 goals over the last 2 yrs and the biggest piece coming to LI, will be a d-man for their 3rd pairing.
Braun was our 4th best defenseman last season. I'm reasonably confident that he could play 2nd pairing minutes.

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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
If that is the case then maybe a trade Braun or Demers for Bailey makes sense. The sharks could really use some help on the third line and Bailey could provide that. Both Braun and Demers are RH defensemen that can play on the second pairing going forward. Neither has been a second pairing guy for and extended period of time on the sharks but that has more to do with the sharks defensive core than either's ability.
I don't like Bailey much, and I'm certainly disinclined to give up Demers for him.

As for the bolded, I think you're forgetting when Demers was our #3 defenseman on the 09-10 team that went to the WCF. His sub-par last season was due to a variety of reasons: The coaches inexplicable love for Colin White, having to play with Colin White when he was allowed to play, or playing on his off side. I see Demers bouncing back in a big way. He's scoring at almost the same pace as Erik Karlsson in the FEL.

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12-13-2012, 11:21 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
As for the bolded, I think you're forgetting when Demers was our #3 defenseman on the 09-10 team that went to the WCF. His sub-par last season was due to a variety of reasons: The coaches inexplicable love for Colin White, having to play with Colin White when he was allowed to play, or playing on his off side. I see Demers bouncing back in a big way. He's scoring at almost the same pace as Erik Karlsson in the FEL.
I assume you mean 10-11, but that was only for the post season. That's why I said extended period of time. Demers (and Braun) has had success on the second pairing, just not for a full season. I really hope Demers bounces back when/if the NHL returns but I have no problem trading him for a young forward. Bailey would make a solid 3rd line RW (2nd when Havlat gets hurt). He is young, inexpensive, and has PK experience which are all positives.

I don't think we have the pieces to get Grabner (short of a package deal involving Boyle) although he would be an ideal addition to the sharks.

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12-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
I assume you mean 10-11, but that was only for the post season. That's why I said extended period of time. Demers (and Braun) has had success on the second pairing, just not for a full season. I really hope Demers bounces back when/if the NHL returns but I have no problem trading him for a young forward. Bailey would make a solid 3rd line RW (2nd when Havlat gets hurt). He is young, inexpensive, and has PK experience which are all positives.

I don't think we have the pieces to get Grabner (short of a package deal involving Boyle) although he would be an ideal addition to the sharks.
I'd be interested in Demers, although like I said earlier I don't think the Isles would be inclined to deal any pieces off their current roster. Picks/Prospects will most likely be the Isles main trade chips, considering they want to start competing.

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12-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'd be interested in Demers, although like I said earlier I don't think the Isles would be inclined to deal any pieces off their current roster. Picks/Prospects will most likely be the Isles main trade chips, considering they want to start competing.
The Isles and Sharks do not make good trade partners, they are in win now mode and won't ship off an NHL player for picks/prospects. We need to find a team that is going to rebuild and that is willing to trade an NHL defenseman for picks/prospects, or a team that is above the cap looking for relief.

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12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Braun was our 4th best defenseman last season. I'm reasonably confident that he could play 2nd pairing minutes.



I don't like Bailey much, and I'm certainly disinclined to give up Demers for him.

As for the bolded, I think you're forgetting when Demers was our #3 defenseman on the 09-10 team that went to the WCF. His sub-par last season was due to a variety of reasons: The coaches inexplicable love for Colin White, having to play with Colin White when he was allowed to play, or playing on his off side. I see Demers bouncing back in a big way. He's scoring at almost the same pace as Erik Karlsson in the FEL.
I'm not interested in trading a 25 yr old core player for Braun and hope Snow would pass.

and yeah, despite fan comments about the inconsistent Grabner, that is how Snow views him imo.

He's a 25 yr old who's scored 54 goals over the last 2 yrs, who's speed makes him dangerous on the pk.

If Grabner is dealt, imo it should be part of a package to bring in an impact player, not for lesser pieces.

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12-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
The Isles and Sharks do not make good trade partners, they are in win now mode and won't ship off an NHL player for picks/prospects. We need to find a team that is going to rebuild and that is willing to trade an NHL defenseman for picks/prospects, or a team that is above the cap looking for relief.
Two teams in win now mode can make a trade that is beneficial to both. The sharks have extra defensemen but almost no 3rd line. As an outsider, it looks like the islanders have plenty of players capable of playing on their 3rd line, especially on the right side. What they need is a top 4 D-man. This would make them decent trade partners. Obviously not ideal given your stated goal of using picks/prospects but not bad either.

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12-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If Grabner is dealt, imo it should be part of a package to bring in an impact player, not for lesser pieces.
I would probably go ahead and say this about any core NYI player. I would think (hope) that the Isles are not in the mode of selling young players for depth. If anything, the Isles would want to package their assets for a clear cut top line/pair player... not sell (young) pieces (under contract) for a #5 defenseman plus picks.

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12-13-2012, 11:58 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
The Isles and Sharks do not make good trade partners, they are in win now mode and won't ship off an NHL player for picks/prospects. We need to find a team that is going to rebuild and that is willing to trade an NHL defenseman for picks/prospects, or a team that is above the cap looking for relief.
Assuming the cap ends up dropping to the $60M area, the Sharks fit that description.

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12-13-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
I would probably go ahead and say this about any core NYI player. I would think (hope) that the Isles are not in the mode of selling young players for depth. If anything, the Isles would want to package their assets for a clear cut top line/pair player... not sell (young) pieces (under contract) for a #5 defenseman plus picks.
I agree.

Because of his glut of youngsters, I think we are more likely to see Snow packaging 3-4 quality pieces in a major trade for an impact player, then trade a young core player for 2-3 lesser pieces.

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12-13-2012, 01:02 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Assuming the cap ends up dropping to the $60M area, the Sharks fit that description.
If the cap were to drop to 60M with no transition rules (thats a big if), the sharks would have to trade Boyle. I think the type of package they would be looking for in return would be something like Grabner + LH 6th D-man + low pick/prospect. Would that work for the Islanders?

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12-13-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
If the cap were to drop to 60M with no transition rules (thats a big if), the sharks would have to trade Boyle. I think the type of package they would be looking for in return would be something like Grabner + LH 6th D-man + low pick/prospect. Would that work for the Islanders?
I hope not.
As talented as Boyle is, he is 36 yrs old and the isles are nowhere close to being a cup contender.


When the isles made their major trades for Peca and Ryan Smyth, they were 27 yrs old and 30 yrs old. They were in their prime and the isles expected to have each playing at a high level, for several yrs.

They offered Peca 5 and 8 yr deals. He took the 5 yr offer.
They reportedly jumped thru hoops trying to woo Smyth into staying, reportedly offering a multi yr deal at higher $ then other teams. He went to Colorado instead.

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12-13-2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
Two teams in win now mode can make a trade that is beneficial to both. The sharks have extra defensemen but almost no 3rd line. As an outsider, it looks like the islanders have plenty of players capable of playing on their 3rd line, especially on the right side. What they need is a top 4 D-man. This would make them decent trade partners. Obviously not ideal given your stated goal of using picks/prospects but not bad either.
I can see an Ullstrom for Braun type deal. Ullstrom is a big bodied forward who played well on our third line and may have top six potential while Braun, from what SJ posters have said, has shown flashes of top four potential but is a bottom pairing defenseman right now. Ullstrom is a left handed shot who can play all three forward positions and is a shoot first guy who isn't afraid to get dirty.

Care to elaborate on Braun's game?

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12-13-2012, 03:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
I can see an Ullstrom for Braun type deal. Ullstrom is a big bodied forward who played well on our third line and may have top six potential while Braun, from what SJ posters have said, has shown flashes of top four potential but is a bottom pairing defenseman right now. Ullstrom is a left handed shot who can play all three forward positions and is a shoot first guy who isn't afraid to get dirty.

Care to elaborate on Braun's game?
Braun had a break out year last year and as a previous poster mentioned, he was clearly the sharks 4th best defenseman. He did not play on the second pairing much because he is right handed and the coaching staff was stubborn. He is ready to take on a larger role as an offensively minded 2nd pairing guy. He has a good contract and will make 1.25 in each of the next 3 years.

Ullstrom is an unproven commodity who appears to currently be a 4th line player. The sharks need a solid proven 3rd line contributor, hence the interest in Bailey.

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12-13-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
Braun had a break out year last year and as a previous poster mentioned, he was clearly the sharks 4th best defenseman. He did not play on the second pairing much because he is right handed and the coaching staff was stubborn. He is ready to take on a larger role as an offensively minded 2nd pairing guy. He has a good contract and will make 1.25 in each of the next 3 years.

Ullstrom is an unproven commodity who appears to currently be a 4th line player. The sharks need a solid proven 3rd line contributor, hence the interest in Bailey.
I agree, that we don't know what kind of NHL scorer Ullstrom will be.
Ullstrom looked good on the NYI 3rd line, in his half a season.

Maybe it's best to re-visit Braun for Ullstrom in 1-2 yrs.

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12-13-2012, 04:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I hope not.
As talented as Boyle is, he is 36 yrs old and the isles are nowhere close to being a cup contender.


When the isles made their major trades for Peca and Ryan Smyth, they were 27 yrs old and 30 yrs old. They were in their prime and the isles expected to have each playing at a high level, for several yrs.

They offered Peca 5 and 8 yr deals. He took the 5 yr offer.
They reportedly jumped thru hoops trying to woo Smyth into staying, reportedly offering a multi yr deal at higher $ then other teams. He went to Colorado instead.
Maybe I'm biased, but I'd definitely consider it. I've always been a big fan of Boyle. I know he's older, but I think he still has a few years left of top-4 play. He'd add some much needed offense to the blue-line(especially if/when Visnovsky leaves), and some much needed veteran leadership. A guy like Kichton, who I think has pretty big upside, could benefit greatly from playing with Boyle as well. I think BK's style is very similar.

I'd hate to lose Grabner, but I'd consider it.

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12-13-2012, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Maybe I'm biased, but I'd definitely consider it. I've always been a big fan of Boyle. I know he's older, but I think he still has a few years left of top-4 play. He'd add some much needed offense to the blue-line(especially if/when Visnovsky leaves), and some much needed veteran leadership. A guy like Kichton, who I think has pretty big upside, could benefit greatly from playing with Boyle as well. I think BK's style is very similar.

I'd hate to lose Grabner, but I'd consider it.
I'd be pretty unhappy with Snow. Imo he'd be going from practically hoarding his picks/prospects during the rebuild to pissing them away for short term gains:

2nd rounder in a deep draft, for 1 season of 36 yr old Vis, during a lockout.

25 yr old Grabner for 1 or 1 and 1/2 seasons of 36 yr old Boyle.

also, I'm not gonna get too excited about a mid-late pick, who's tearing up juniors at 19/20 yrs old.

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12-13-2012, 05:00 PM
  #45
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Braun had a break out year last year and as a previous poster mentioned, he was clearly the sharks 4th best defenseman. He did not play on the second pairing much because he is right handed and the coaching staff was stubborn. He is ready to take on a larger role as an offensively minded 2nd pairing guy. He has a good contract and will make 1.25 in each of the next 3 years.

Ullstrom is an unproven commodity who appears to currently be a 4th line player. The sharks need a solid proven 3rd line contributor, hence the interest in Bailey.
Yeah, I don't see why you'd want to trade an NHL player for Ullstrom (Nothing against Ullstrom. I'm happy to keep him considering he's worth less to others than he would be to us.) Islanders fans are bargain hunters. Don't sweat it.

I haven't seen enough of Braun, but I think a Bailey for a 4th D type guy is a good move.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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12-13-2012, 06:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I'd be pretty unhappy with Snow. Imo he'd be going from practically hoarding his picks/prospects during the rebuild to pissing them away for short term gains:

2nd rounder in a deep draft, for 1 season of 36 yr old Vis, during a lockout.

25 yr old Grabner for 1 or 1 and 1/2 seasons of 36 yr old Boyle.

also, I'm not gonna get too excited about a mid-late pick, who's tearing up juniors at 19/20 yrs old.
The round he was taken in shouldn't really matter. The guy's numbers are impressive any way you look at it, but the fact that he's been steady defensively is what has me excited about his NHL upside. I wouldn't be surprised to see him step into Bridgeport next year and immediately be their best offensive defenseman. How he adapts defensively will tell a lot, though.

Either way, I said I'd consider the trade for Boyle, not that I'd necessarily do it. I'd prefer to move prospects/picks, but if it was Grabner+ or bust I wouldn't just walk away.

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12-14-2012, 12:38 PM
  #47
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I actually think Bailey would do well on the Sharks. Lots of talent for him to play with. He can shoit and pass but hes not a creative enough player to dictate an offensive flow.

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12-14-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
The round he was taken in shouldn't really matter. The guy's numbers are impressive any way you look at it, but the fact that he's been steady defensively is what has me excited about his NHL upside. I wouldn't be surprised to see him step into Bridgeport next year and immediately be their best offensive defenseman. How he adapts defensively will tell a lot, though.

.
The round Kitchon was draft in, isn't a big a concern. The fact that he's racking up pts in juniors at 19 and 20 yrs old, against younger players is.

I'll wait until he turns pro, is playing in Bridgeport against players his own age and older, before getting excited about his potential impact.

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12-14-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
The round Kitchon was draft in, isn't a big a concern. The fact that he's racking up pts in juniors at 19 and 20 yrs old, against younger players is.

I'll wait until he turns pro, is playing in Bridgeport against players his own age and older, before getting excited about his potential impact.
Kichton shouldn't be in the CHL right now, but lets not discount what he has done. The kid had 81 points in 64 games as an 18 year old in the WHL. Just to put it in perspective, Morgan Rielly started this season at 18 years of age, yet he is currently at 28 points in 33 games. The kid shouldn't be in the league right now, but the two years prior he wasn't exactly a "man amongst boys" in that league at 18 and 19 YO.

Andrew MacDonald has proven the overager thing really shouldn't dictate how you view a prospect, as long as said prospect is producing. Kichton has done nothing but produce since he's been drafted.

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12-14-2012, 01:03 PM
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Kichton shouldn't be in the CHL right now, but lets not discount what he has done. The kid had 81 points in 64 games as an 18 year old in the WHL. Just to put it in perspective, Morgan Rielly started this season at 18 years of age, yet he is currently at 28 points in 33 games. The kid shouldn't be in the league right now, but the two years prior he wasn't exactly a "man amongst boys" in that league at 18 and 19 YO.

Andrew MacDonald has proven the overager thing really shouldn't dictate how you view a prospect, as long as said prospect is producing. Kichton has done nothing but produce since he's been drafted.
I hope he turns out to be a draft day steal, for Snow and his scouts.

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