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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:19 AM
  #326
Benders Lindyhop
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Apparently games are now cancelled through Dec. 30th. Yay.

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12-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  #327
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12-10-2012, 06:38 PM
  #328
IdealisticSniper
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So who wants to answer a question. At the beginning of this whole thing the players were fighting for something. I get it.

But at this point in time, with the offer that was on the table, what, exactly, are the players fighting for still?

Dead serious question. They have lost 600M+ dollars they will NEVER see again. I dont understand why they are still fighting at this point. It makes no sense whatsoever.

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12-10-2012, 08:21 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
So who wants to answer a question. At the beginning of this whole thing the players were fighting for something. I get it.

But at this point in time, with the offer that was on the table, what, exactly, are the players fighting for still?

Dead serious question. They have lost 600M+ dollars they will NEVER see again. I dont understand why they are still fighting at this point. It makes no sense whatsoever.
What does your heart tell you?

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12-10-2012, 08:35 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RussianGuyovich View Post
What does your heart tell you?
That it will go on.

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12-11-2012, 09:55 PM
  #331
The Fear Boners
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Whole situation is just bizarre. Last week was just... odd.

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12-12-2012, 04:14 PM
  #332
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Today's meeting is over. (and guess how much progress they said they made?)

I think the mediators were just to humor the PA.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-12-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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12-13-2012, 01:28 PM
  #333
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This is beyond ridiculous. What are they even fighting for anymore? Seems like the owners are willing to let the season be lost. Players are the ones with everything to lose if they dont play. Owners just sound pretty stubborn and wont change anything. So why are the players still trying?

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12-13-2012, 01:34 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
This is beyond ridiculous. What are they even fighting for anymore? Seems like the owners are willing to let the season be lost. Players are the ones with everything to lose if they dont play. Owners just sound pretty stubborn and wont change anything. So why are the players still trying?
They're fighting to minimize losses and they keep trying because a deadline hasn't been set.

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12-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
They're fighting to minimize losses and they keep trying because a deadline hasn't been set.
Theres no deadline because some of the Owners dont give a **** if they dont play this year. They want to recollect some of the money they lost the last few years from not making playoffs. So yea I guess your right, players are just hanging on because they still believe they can get it done. Sounds like the owners (obviously not all of them) are pretty content with how this is going. Players should wave the white flag already and just play. Go with the 5 year deal and then find somebody else who can do a better job negotiating. Fehr sucks.

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12-13-2012, 07:07 PM
  #336
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http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblo...#axzz2Ez3aRIVU
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President Barack Obama is urging the NHL and the players’ association to “do right by your fans” and find a solution to the league’s lockout.

Obama says in an interview with WCCO-TV in Minneapolis that as president, he shouldn’t have to get involved in a sports lockout. He says owners and players “make a lot of money and you make a lot of money on the backs of the fans, so do right by your fans.”

Representatives from both sides met with a federal mediator Thursday but didn’t make any noticeable progress. The two sides appear no closer to a deal to save the season.

Obama says both sides “can figure out how to spread out a bunch of revenue” and should do right by the people who support them.

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12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #337
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And now Tim Thomas has sided with the Owners.

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12-14-2012, 04:58 PM
  #338
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There's lots to unpack today, but the NHLPA is going to try to get it's membership to vote on giving the executive board the ability to go the disclaimer of interest route.

The league has since filed complaints with the NLRB about the PA and a lawsuit for confirming the legality of the lockout.

...so...the league locks the players out and then sues them? WTG!


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12-14-2012, 05:10 PM
  #339
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When **** went down last week, the NHL's idea of compromising and negotiating was pulling all their compromises off the table.


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12-14-2012, 06:01 PM
  #340
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Its funny, as much as the NHL keeps pumping the tires on "EVERYONE HATES FEHR" i've heard more noise from people about owners than anything. Lets face it, teams like us, Columbus, Florida, Nashville, Dallas... its not just losing a season, its losing love, dependability for the sport, dealing with apathy. We already have a weird economy of retirees from up north who cling to Boston, New York, Toronto... for once we're gaining momentum and all that will be **** on by the decisions of a few.

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12-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Its funny, as much as the NHL keeps pumping the tires on "EVERYONE HATES FEHR" i've heard more noise from people about owners than anything. Lets face it, teams like us, Columbus, Florida, Nashville, Dallas... its not just losing a season, its losing love, dependability for the sport, dealing with apathy. We already have a weird economy of retirees from up north who cling to Boston, New York, Toronto... for once we're gaining momentum and all that will be **** on by the decisions of a few.
Fans have achieved sentience.

Something I don't like is that the booing of Bettman when he hands out the Stanley Cup is used as the gauge for his popularity. It's really not. It's anecdotal at best.

I'd recommend reading Ryan Lambert's 'A Twitsmas Carol'. The genesis of this was Gord Miller's 4 twitter rules that came across as 'broadcasting' and not discussing, which is what social media is supposed to be about.

http://storify.com/seangentille/a-twitsmas-carol

one passage in particular is relevant to the point I'm trying to make here.
Quote:
"for example," ***** added, "@fartboy420 might think luongo sucks, but that doesn't make it so. but if everyone thinks he sucks, he might."
astericks added to avoid spoilers.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-14-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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12-14-2012, 07:11 PM
  #342
IdealisticSniper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Its funny, as much as the NHL keeps pumping the tires on "EVERYONE HATES FEHR" i've heard more noise from people about owners than anything. Lets face it, teams like us, Columbus, Florida, Nashville, Dallas... its not just losing a season, its losing love, dependability for the sport, dealing with apathy. We already have a weird economy of retirees from up north who cling to Boston, New York, Toronto... for once we're gaining momentum and all that will be **** on by the decisions of a few.
The only people who still blame the owners for this, at this point, are at best casual fans who dont read anything about the situation. Or fans who refuse to hate their favorite players.

Anyone who has taken the time to read even half of the information out there about what is going on will be informed enough to know the NHLPA is the problem.

Take a look at the business and main board lockout threads. They are very pro owner and anti NHLPA at this point. And for very good reason.

There is zero reason for the NHLPA to be fighting anymore. NONE whatsoever. Its a complete joke. They are fighting for things that are of in consequence to them at this point just to try to show their "strength". And if they keep it up, they will pay. And we as fans will pay as well.

They were fighting for $500M. They have now lost over $600M.
Now they are fighting for contract length in which the difference players will receive in overall pay would be around 200K in total over the course of the durations, but that same sticking point for the owners would allow even more parity and a competitive balance between small and large market teams.

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12-14-2012, 07:45 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
The only people who still blame the owners for this, at this point, are at best casual fans who dont read anything about the situation. Or fans who refuse to hate their favorite players.

Anyone who has taken the time to read even half of the information out there about what is going on will be informed enough to know the NHLPA is the problem.

Take a look at the business and main board lockout threads. They are very pro owner and anti NHLPA at this point. And for very good reason.

There is zero reason for the NHLPA to be fighting anymore. NONE whatsoever. Its a complete joke. They are fighting for things that are of in consequence to them at this point just to try to show their "strength". And if they keep it up, they will pay. And we as fans will pay as well.

They were fighting for $500M. They have now lost over $600M.
Now they are fighting for contract length in which the difference players will receive in overall pay would be around 200K in total over the course of the durations, but that same sticking point for the owners would allow even more parity and a competitive balance between small and large market teams.
If they don't show their "strength" they'll pay. If they just cave into what the owners want, then what will happen next lockout? They'll get less than they came crawling back to get this time.

The CBA is a very delicate ecosystem. There's supposed to be a give-and-take, not just take.


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12-14-2012, 08:24 PM
  #344
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
If they don't show their "strength" they'll pay. If they just cave into what the owners want, then what will happen next lockout? They'll get less than they came crawling back to get this time.

The CBA is a very delicate ecosystem. There's supposed to be a give-and-take, not just take.

They will lose every single time. Period. They should have accepted the October offer. Now every offer is worse than that one. They are losing their careers over nothing right.

The NHL wants things to better their stability. Players just one money at this point.

Just shut up, agree, make millions playing a sport, and retire at 40 and enjoy life.

There's a reason every player coming out about the previous lock out is saying they regret every day of it. That time and money they lost they will never get back.

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12-14-2012, 11:15 PM
  #345
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Its comical how poorly informed you are, even on simple ideas like "every offer is worse than before now".

There are so many complex and broken systems in the current CBA that need to be fixed badly, and its really going to take both sides. The truth is right now nobody is right or wrong, just ignorant. Disagreement is one thing, but not working together or bargaining is worse.

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12-14-2012, 11:24 PM
  #346
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http://www2.tbo.com/sports/bolts/201.../tbo.ly/ZsEV2m
Quote:
Tampa Bay owner Jeff Vinik informed all full-time team employees on Friday they will be getting an extended paid vacation.

In an email distributed Friday morning, the Forum will essentially close on Dec. 20 and reopen on Jan. 2 – although the ticket office as well as the team merchandise store will remain open during regular business hours.

During the holiday shutdown, all affected employees – approximately 150 people are currently on staff – will continue to receive their regular wages, with the time off not counting toward their allotted vacation benefits. Of course, if a new collective bargaining agreement is reached between the league and the players' union before then, the extended time off will be cut short.
Quote:
In addition to the time off, employees are being given an extra $75 bonus funded by the Lightning Foundation with the hope it will be used to help those in need.

"We are asking that you use that money to purchase gifts for a holiday charity or perhaps a needy family close to your heart,'' Vinik wrote to employees. "Let's count our collective blessings while helping someone in need.''

All this was possible because of the lockout that has been in place since Sept. 16, after the collective bargaining agreement expired. Vinik addressed the labor situation in his letter.

"I remain optimistic that we will reach an agreement with our great players that will enable the game of hockey to thrive in Tampa Bay for a very long time,'' Vinik wrote. "I believe the new framework will enable us to run a viable business in our world class manner while offering General Manager Steve Yzerman the resources necessary to ensure our team is competitive at the highest levels year-in, year-out.''

Vinik closed out the letter stating, "I hope each and every one of you enjoys the holiday season and remains as optimistic as I do for our future.''

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12-15-2012, 06:36 AM
  #347
Benders Lindyhop
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Quote:
Tampa Bay owner Jeff Vinik informed all full-time team employees on Friday they will be getting an extended paid vacation.

In an email distributed Friday morning, the Forum will essentially close on Dec. 20 and reopen on Jan. 2 although the ticket office as well as the team merchandise store will remain open during regular business hours.

During the holiday shutdown, all affected employees approximately 150 people are currently on staff will continue to receive their regular wages, with the time off not counting toward their allotted vacation benefits. Of course, if a new collective bargaining agreement is reached between the league and the players' union before then, the extended time off will be cut short.

I know I can be a huge Vinik fanboy at times, but this really is world class.

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Old
12-15-2012, 10:15 AM
  #348
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Its comical how poorly informed you are, even on simple ideas like "every offer is worse than before now".

There are so many complex and broken systems in the current CBA that need to be fixed badly, and its really going to take both sides. The truth is right now nobody is right or wrong, just ignorant. Disagreement is one thing, but not working together or bargaining is worse.
Oh look another vague response where you pretend to know so much more about it then you really do and yet provide nothing of substance to the conversation.

How about for once, just once, you actually put forth an argument against what Im saying other than "Its sad how far off you are".

Please enlighten me as to how the offer the players received in October isnt better than the one they received last week. Im not talking about the very first offer (43%) either. I mean the 82 game season offer.

Lets start there.

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12-15-2012, 10:23 AM
  #349
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Let's not make this too personal.

(mod playing mod)

What about Make Whole money? The offer was at $211 million more recently than October and it was up to $300 in the last offer.

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12-15-2012, 10:34 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Let's not make this too personal.

(mod playing mod)

What about Make Whole money? The offer was at $211 million more recently than October and it was up to $300 in the last offer.
Yes it is up to 300M. And to get from $211M to $300M they had to hold out for a month. In which they lost over $100M in salaries from games being canceled. Probably more, but I dont feel like doing the exact numbers.

Edit: Just took a quick glance its really closer to 250M+ that they lose per month the season is locked out. So well dont players.


Last edited by IdealisticSniper: 12-15-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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