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Old
12-13-2012, 02:08 PM
  #176
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Teams that have been reported as interested in Luongo in no particular order:

Florida
Tampa - Got Lindback
Edmonton
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Columbus - Signed a solid backup
Plus one reported "mystery team" :grainofsalt:
I thought this was EDM....man, this has been going on to long!!

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Old
12-13-2012, 04:34 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I thought this was EDM....man, this has been going on to long!!
I think the deals all but done, everyone is waiting on the CBA

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:11 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean;56507807[B
]no_ goalie making that kind of cash. That isn't a Luongo specific argument. You continue to miss the point (Quelle surprise). _Any_ goalie of Luongo's calibre on a shorter term deal will be making 6m+. So if the cap-hit is a concern for Luongo, it's a concern for every goalie that is of his type[/B]. What you are arguing here is that you want _



NL, do you honestly believe Gillis had not considered the potential risk in retain Luongo into his 40's? This management team has taken into account all the risks. It's the only way they even issue a contract like that out to someone - they know everything about it. Back to front. No one is skirting over anything here. Likewise, VAN fans are _well_ aware of the implications of his contract. We were discussing it years before TO fans had an inkling of acquiring him.



Lastly, if Luongo wanted to stay, I'd have no problem with Gillis retaining him. Not one. Goaltending like that tandem would keep this team competitive for a long time. But the fact is, Luongo wants to leave. So there's really no choice in the matter.
There has been very few if anyone who has made an issue with his cap hit, the issue is the continuation of his cap hit in his late 30's and early 40's. Firstly, this contract and others is the main reason it looks as though there will be contract limits and limitations on the percentages over the contract. Circumventing contracts like this will cease to exist. Thanks to this contract, the abilty to put players in the minors to hide the cap hit will no longer be available. Any contract has to be weighted as the present and future value to the club as well as many other things. The point is simply this, this contract was designed to play less initially, with the length and variation of salary so the cap hit in his prime is lower. Problem is, the team aquiring him is getting him at the later stages of his career and contract. where the main risk lies.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:15 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I think the deals all but done, everyone is waiting on the CBA
I doubt it. Why would a team agree to a trade when that team has no idea what cap implications, and contractual issues can arise, as well as the abscence of a new CBA.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:34 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Teams that have been reported as interested in Luongo in no particular order:

Florida
Tampa - Got Lindback
Edmonton
Toronto
Chicago
San Jose
Columbus - Signed a solid backup
Plus one reported "mystery team" :grainofsalt:
Florida-Possible, but with the lockout going on longer, they may honestly just wait for markstrom moreso now, risky move to bring in luongo to this small market
Tampa- wont happen, they're done trading
Edmonton-possible, but I'm not sure I'd want him that close to my team
Toronto- Most likely IMO, they have the biggest need
Chicago- division rival, WONT HAPPEN
San Jose- Maybe but does Luongo want to go there.
Columbus- Luongo would not say yes.

Most likely IMO:
1. Toronto
2. Florida
3. San Jose(only cause alot of people they could trade)
then everyone else.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:59 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
I doubt it. Why would a team agree to a trade when that team has no idea what cap implications, and contractual issues can arise, as well as the abscence of a new CBA.
I dont. with this much time, there's definitely deals in place, their just waiting on the new CBA to pull the trigger.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:10 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I dont. with this much time, there's definitely deals in place, their just waiting on the new CBA to pull the trigger.
I actually agree with you. So now lets take out our crystal balls and guess the return. Will be interesting to see who's closest.

I'll start.

Bozak,Kadri and a 2nd

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:13 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I actually agree with you. So now lets take out our crystal balls and guess the return. Will be interesting to see who's closest.

I'll start.

Bozak,Kadri and a 2nd
I actually think this is pretty close to the return we will get. I wont be really happy with it but i wont be overly disappointed at it either so it is close

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:46 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Thomas has a couple years left to win a cup and he signs with the Toronto Maple Leafs? The only team to have zero playoff births since the last lockout... I would say there is virtually zero chance Thomas signs with the Leafs.

Same goes for Getzlaf. The Leafs need Luongo if they want a snowball's chance at signing the big centre IMO.

Luongo would do a lot more than stop pucks for the Leafs. He instantly gives credibility back to an organization that hasn't had any in almost a decade. People really overlook this impact.

Never mind the fact the Leafs are littered with pending free agents. Again, Luongo's presence could be the difference between retaining or losing a lot of talent over the next couple years.

To Van- Kulemin, Bozak, 1st
To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
Thomas has won a cup and I doubt Bruins would re-sign Thomas now that they have Rask and Subban. In fact, Thomas might like the politics in Toronto a little more. Which may be why he would want to come here. Getzlaf may sign since Carlyle is head coach. He had Carlyle as a head coach before and Burke as the GM (won a cup too).

You're acting like Luongo is our only option. No, Luongo won't be our saviour. We're going to end up wasting good pieces for a goaltender that is slowly turning to #2 for Canucks. Getting Luongo will NOT make a difference on whether or not we sign a huge centre...

Honestly, I would not give much just to sign Luongo. No prospects and no picks for him. I'd rather overpay Thomas a little than let that happen (couldn't be as bad as overpaying Komisarek).

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:03 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I actually agree with you. So now lets take out our crystal balls and guess the return. Will be interesting to see who's closest.

I'll start.

Bozak,Kadri and a 2nd
That's close to mine. I have it as Bozak/Connolly + 2 of Kadri/Frattin/Finn/Biggs/2014 1st. Without knowing the market or CBA it's really tough to predict though.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:08 PM
  #186
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i'll go bozak connlly kadri 2nd for louongo connolly is there due to keslers injury

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:12 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
i'll go bozak connlly kadri 2nd for louongo connolly is there due to keslers injury
tough to imagine we move 2centers. I've got Connolly filling in for Bozak.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:40 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
But the fact is, Luongo wants to leave. So there's really no choice in the matter.
And this drops his trade value too.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:55 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
And yet...here we are. I find it hard to believe that your management didn't see the potential of Schnieder at that time. It may have been more prudent to sign Luongo to a shorter term which would make him much easier to move now.
In fairness, look no farther than Toronto to see how easily a promising goaltender can fizzle out. Even Price took longer to scratch away the rust. Gillis likely believed Luongo would be through his ticket price for the duration of the contract, and frankly, so do I.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:35 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by tmlhockeyfan View Post
Thomas has won a cup and I doubt Bruins would re-sign Thomas now that they have Rask and Subban. In fact, Thomas might like the politics in Toronto a little more. Which may be why he would want to come here. Getzlaf may sign since Carlyle is head coach. He had Carlyle as a head coach before and Burke as the GM (won a cup too).

You're acting like Luongo is our only option. No, Luongo won't be our saviour. We're going to end up wasting good pieces for a goaltender that is slowly turning to #2 for Canucks. Getting Luongo will NOT make a difference on whether or not we sign a huge centre...

Honestly, I would not give much just to sign Luongo. No prospects and no picks for him. I'd rather overpay Thomas a little than let that happen (couldn't be as bad as overpaying Komisarek).
Why in blue hell would a 40 year old star netminder sign with the only team in the NHL that hasn't played a playoff game since the last lockout? There is a better chance Ben Scrivens wins the Vezina next season than Thomas signs with the Leafs.

Luongo absolutely could make the difference between signing or failing to sign an impact player in free agency. If the Leafs sputter again and miss the playoffs on the back of poor goaltending it's just highly unlikely a coveted free agent is going to choose Toronto over every other club in the league.

How many stars has Burke lured from free agency to sign with the Leafs during his tenure in Toronto?

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12-13-2012, 09:57 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by tmlhockeyfan View Post
Thomas has won a cup and I doubt Bruins would re-sign Thomas now that they have Rask and Subban. In fact, Thomas might like the politics in Toronto a little more. Which may be why he would want to come here. Getzlaf may sign since Carlyle is head coach. He had Carlyle as a head coach before and Burke as the GM (won a cup too).

You're acting like Luongo is our only option. No, Luongo won't be our saviour. We're going to end up wasting good pieces for a goaltender that is slowly turning to #2 for Canucks. Getting Luongo will NOT make a difference on whether or not we sign a huge centre...

Honestly, I would not give much just to sign Luongo. No prospects and no picks for him. I'd rather overpay Thomas a little than let that happen (couldn't be as bad as overpaying Komisarek).
From what I undersrand of Thomas's politcal views, I would think canada's social and fiscal liberalism is kinda counter to what he believes Regardless, I agree that trying to sign Thomas next offseason would be a much better option than giving up much needed assets to get Luongo. Excellent stop gap for a year or two to see what we have in Reimer or try to find a better fit than Luongo. Although I don't see this happening.

Although I agree Luongo will have no impact on our abiity to sign a bonafide center, he would have a good impact on the ice if we are able to sign one (or a solid d). That I will definately agree with nucks fans with. Its the cost to accquire and the additional baggage he carries that makes me very weary of Luongo coming to Toronto.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #192
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Edmonton-possible, but I'm not sure I'd want him that close to my team

Chicago- division rival, WONT HAPPEN

Ummm...Chicago isn't in Vancouver's division.

Also Ummm... Edmonton IS in Vancouver's division.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:11 PM
  #193
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Because winning the Stanley Cup is as much about luck as it is skill.

Not to mention you have to make the playoffs first before winning it all. And if you'd prefer to give up roster players than prospects, than I'm all for that. Any one of Phaneuf/Grabovski/Lupul/Kulemin I'd be willing to base a deal around.
Well it doesnt matter really Do you think Luongo will waive his NTC to come here ? Another market where he will be blamed for every loss ? I dont think so , I think he preferred to go to FLA

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12-13-2012, 10:15 PM
  #194
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[/QUOTE]You're acting like Luongo is our only option. No, Luongo won't be our saviour. We're going to end up wasting good pieces for a goaltender that is slowly turning to #2 for Canucks. Getting Luongo will NOT make a difference on whether or not we sign a huge centre...

Honestly, I would not give much just to sign Luongo. No prospects and no picks for him. I'd rather overpay Thomas a little than let that happen (couldn't be as bad as overpaying Komisarek).[/QUOTE]

TY

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:24 PM
  #195
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i think its very possible luongo comes to edm. and as much as i'd love to have him i want to see dubnyk get a year as starter to show what he can do..

luongo would make the leafs into a playoff team he wont be blamed by them..he would have a few years till they start ripping on him :p

and Getzlaf will be signing with the oil if theres no season :p just to add more duck hatred :p

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:49 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
There has been very few if anyone who has made an issue with his cap hit, the issue is the continuation of his cap hit in his late 30's and early 40's. Firstly, this contract and others is the main reason it looks as though there will be contract limits and limitations on the percentages over the contract. Circumventing contracts like this will cease to exist. Thanks to this contract, the abilty to put players in the minors to hide the cap hit will no longer be available. Any contract has to be weighted as the present and future value to the club as well as many other things. The point is simply this, this contract was designed to play less initially, with the length and variation of salary so the cap hit in his prime is lower. Problem is, the team aquiring him is getting him at the later stages of his career and contract. where the main risk lies.



First bold: Exactly. They will cease to exist because they are so damned good.


Second bold: Assumption.






The main risk does lie in the latter stages of his contract. However, the key point here is that because shrewd GMs like Gillis have built in multiple "outs" into the latter part of his deal, the risks are largely mitigated. That's why these contracts are being attacked right now.


Put another way, normally there is balance in a contract if it is extra long, with a very good cap-hit. You take on the long-term risk in order to have an extremely competitive cap-hit. Even when he's 37/38, his cap-hit will still be very competitive among starters of his quality (Brodeur just signed for 4.5m over two years by the way). However, it becomes unfair to illegally good when you have outs built in to rid yourself of his salary later - even if doesn't retire (which he has implied publically that he will). That's what turns a balanced contract into a fantastically unfair deal. It alleviates the risks. This is what you aren't understanding. There is no risk unless the NHL does away with the waiver wire, which they won't do.



There are simply too many outs to have to worry about it. He's got two trade windows. He's implied early retirement. He can be waived at any point. Further, if the NHL actually saddles the signing team with his extended cap-hit, there is literally no risk to a destination team. The contract becomes phenomenal at that point.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
And this drops his trade value too.


Does him wanting to leave to go to FLA, drop his value in trade to TO? FLA is where he makes his home when not in VAN. TO is just another team.

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12-14-2012, 04:51 AM
  #197
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Florida has no state income tax. Florida has no press to speak of. Florida is where the Missus lives. Florida has no starting goalies in the entire state. Luongo has asked to go there.

Why is a Canadian team even being discussed?

The real question to be answered is which Eastern contender needs a goalie to stay in contention? What will they pay? Does their offer fill holes on the Vancouver roster? What is the state tax, there?

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12-14-2012, 05:55 AM
  #198
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Florida has no state income tax. Florida has no press to speak of. Florida is where the Missus lives. Florida has no starting goalies in the entire state. Luongo has asked to go there.

Why is a Canadian team even being discussed?

The real question to be answered is which Eastern contender needs a goalie to stay in contention? What will they pay? Does their offer fill holes on the Vancouver roster? What is the state tax, there?
So...because Florida has no state tax, Luongo's family is there and that is where Luongo says he wants to go.....the Panthers have no choice. They MUST trade for Luongo, not only that, they MUST let Gillis hand pick pieces that fill the holes on Vancouver's roster.

Finally...some logic in this thread.

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12-14-2012, 06:01 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
So...because Florida has no state tax, Luongo's family is there and that is where Luongo says he wants to go.....the Panthers have no choice. They MUST trade for Luongo, not only that, they MUST let Gillis hand pick pieces that fill the holes on Vancouver's roster.

Finally...some logic in this thread.



Obviously, there's no inherent compulsion for Tallon to submit to Gillis's demands. The fact that Tallon knows where Luongo's heart is, does factor in. He's far more comfortable taking his own hardline knowing that Theodore is in-house for one more year and that Luongo's family will push him in his direction... But then that's why TO is in the picture at all. It's because Tallon has chosen to take a conservative stance that the field is open for another team of need to make their pitch. And if that team's pitch warrants consideration, well then Luongo won't get his wish... and he'll have to go to said team.



TO has to be in the discussion. Quite odd to think that they don't rate when their need is the greatest, Burke is in year 5 of his plan, and that rumour vultures have circled their team for months. Everyone knows these two teams make a trade match in the simplest terms. It's why they continue to be linked.

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12-14-2012, 06:12 AM
  #200
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Obviously, there's no inherent compulsion for Tallon to submit to Gillis's demands. The fact that Tallon knows where Luongo's heart is, does factor in. He's far more comfortable taking his own hardline knowing that Theodore is in-house for one more year and that Luongo's family will push him in his direction... But then that's why TO is in the picture at all. It's because Tallon has chosen to take a conservative stance that the field is open for another team of need to make their pitch. And if that team's pitch warrants consideration, well then Luongo won't get his wish... and he'll have to go to said team.



TO has to be in the discussion. Quite odd to think that they don't rate when their need is the greatest, Burke is in year 5 of his plan, and that rumour vultures have circled their team for months. Everyone knows these two teams make a trade match in the simplest terms. It's why they continue to be linked.
No argument or sarcasm....are you saying you've heard rumours about Burke's job? I ask because i have heard nothing.

My point before was i find it odd that most keep saying "if Burke won't payup...we'll just trade him to FLA". I guess i'm just wondering why it is assumed that FLA will trade for him. I get they had a meeting, but it seems most of the FLA talk stopped after that. It is possible that Tallon explained to Luongo that the direction they are taking with the team doesn't include him.

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