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Old
12-12-2012, 03:43 PM
  #701
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No surprise that it was Dumba. Amazing the difference from this year and last year at the camp. He was one of the best players at the camp last season.
Sad.

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12-12-2012, 03:46 PM
  #702
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Sometimes you need to fall to learn to pick yourself up.

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12-12-2012, 04:08 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
Sometimes you need to fall to learn to pick yourself up.
Dumbas got a lot of support. The kid has to learn that he was ahead of the competition being a good offensive dman and now they are caught up so to speak, and have him on his heels, literally. He's going to have to learn a lot, and by failing a few times it may accelerate his learning. What you don't know, you don't know, and won't realize until it's brought to your attention. Now he knows

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12-12-2012, 04:13 PM
  #704
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I'm concerned because Dumba's skating was supposed to be a strength and now it appears to be a weakness.

Quote:
Dumba's biggest problem has been backwards skating. It's like he's skating in quicksand — he's moving slower backwards than Hal Gill.


He needs to relax. The pressure of getting cut might be causing this. At least I hope so. I really like him as a prospect, but he's looked terrible.


Dumba has been very mediocre since the end of last season.


If he made the team, you know he'd score a goal with his shot and drill someone.On the flip side, you know he'd take a dumb penalty, or two and get burned easily because he's not all that great defensively.


Dumba has been bad, but nice hustle to get back


WJC is even more pressure. Anyone that can't handle the pressure of possibly getting cut is not somebody you want on your team. Besides, I doubt that his skating suddenly became worse because of nerves. He just doesn't seem to be a big ice player at this level.

I'm a big fan of Dumba, was really jealous when Minny got him last draft but he clearly has some work ahead of him.


Let's just say some people are over-praising/over-criticizing players who haven't played no where near as good/bad as some people are making them out to be. It happens everytime, people are predisposed to something they want. If they think a player is good they will think the player is playing good even if they haven't, and vice-versa. Dumba's criticism is about the only completely accurate assesment, but that would be pretty daming to refute.

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12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #705
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Graovac impressed me today, I think at this point he has a better chance of making the team than Dumba. A couple weeks ago I would have never imagined that would be the case but he has earned it and Dumba has done the opposite.

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12-12-2012, 05:00 PM
  #706
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Pretty much all of the WJC posters think Dumba will get cut tonight.

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12-12-2012, 05:22 PM
  #707
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Dumba was a bad pick then and it'll be a bad pick next year, i hated the pick but what can you do when the two dman we wanted went 5 and 6 :/f

also i wish like hell we took Trouba instead...


Last edited by forthewild: 12-12-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old
12-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #708
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despite the HF community grinding an axe for dumba to get cut tonight he survived the cut. still 8 players to cut so we'll see if he can play him self onto a team

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12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #709
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So Graovac was cut then?

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12-12-2012, 08:38 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
So Graovac was cut then?
Unfortunately, yes

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:23 AM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Dumba was a bad pick then and it'll be a bad pick next year, i hated the pick but what can you do when the two dman we wanted went 5 and 6 :/f

also i wish like hell we took Trouba instead...
He was never a bad pick. A riskier pick than guys like Trouba? Most certainly, but he brings a very unique blend of skills, skills that the Wild needed badly off, which is offense and physicality.

Time will tell if he can put it together, but I don't believe he was a bad pick because prospects aren't science, you do the best you can at the time.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:36 AM
  #712
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I really think Dumba can become a very good player with some seasoning..

Give him atleast 2-3 years to show what he is good for before we start whining..


Last edited by SphinX: 12-13-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 12:57 AM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Dumba was a bad pick then and it'll be a bad pick next year, i hated the pick but what can you do when the two dman we wanted went 5 and 6 :/f

also i wish like hell we took Trouba instead...
Oh so you can predict the future can you? The kid is 18 freakin' years old, give him some time for pete's sake. It's not like we we're gonna throw him into the line-up this year or even next year anyway.

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:43 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
And that is what I remember. But, without the trade up, you don't secure the player, so...
Was "securing" Colton Gillies a good move? Or Tyler Cuma? You can't base the trade as a good move or bad move solely on the success or failure of the draft pick.

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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
This isn't the first time I've seen you drop the Foy comparison. Zucker has blown Foy out of the water at every comparable level. I don't see it.
And it won't be the last because Matt Foy was a good example of how a good north/south player without the lateral game has a hard time scoring in the NHL.

A glorified Matt Foy is equivalent to Zucker's numbers. Maybe Wild fans have forgotten that Foy had a respectable freshman season at the college level before getting drafted as a 19 year-old. And then he twice had AHL seasons of around .8 PPG at an age a littler older than Zucker. "Blown out of the water"? Eh, I'm not seeing that in the stats.

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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Foy didn't "break out" in the AHL until he was 24, and even then he didn't score PPG.
Foy's break-out AHL season was at age 22, or about 20 months older than Zucker is now. We're splitting hairs to think that 20 months at that age will mean one will progress far above the other.

And again, I didn't say "Matt Foy". I said a "glorified Matt Foy". My point will stand.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:15 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Was "securing" Colton Gillies a good move? Or Tyler Cuma? You can't base the trade as a good move or bad move solely on the success or failure of the draft pick.


And it won't be the last because Matt Foy was a good example of how a good north/south player without the lateral game has a hard time scoring in the NHL.

A glorified Matt Foy is equivalent to Zucker's numbers. Maybe Wild fans have forgotten that Foy had a respectable freshman season at the college level before getting drafted as a 19 year-old. And then he twice had AHL seasons of around .8 PPG at an age a littler older than Zucker. "Blown out of the water"? Eh, I'm not seeing that in the stats.


Foy's break-out AHL season was at age 22, or about 20 months older than Zucker is now. We're splitting hairs to think that 20 months at that age will mean one will progress far above the other.

And again, I didn't say "Matt Foy". I said a "glorified Matt Foy". My point will stand.
i don't see how they are similar prospects at all, Zucker is a fast skater who isn't brain dead, he is able to read plays and be there. Even if he tops out as say a 20g guy for a 2nd round pick he'll be excellent value. He can play a 3rd line role and do it well.

Also as a freshman Zucker scored 23g Foy as 1 year older scored 7, that not even a comparison given Zucker played in a tougher college conference.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:17 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
He was never a bad pick. A riskier pick than guys like Trouba? Most certainly, but he brings a very unique blend of skills, skills that the Wild needed badly off, which is offense and physicality.

Time will tell if he can put it together, but I don't believe he was a bad pick because prospects aren't science, you do the best you can at the time.
Trouba is a better overall skater, he is just as physical, had an outstanding WJC tournament for a underager last year and brings just as much heart. plus he's got 2 inches on Dumba.

The deciding factor was Dumba was though to be more offensive of the two, which may or may not be true at all.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:05 AM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Was "securing" Colton Gillies a good move? Or Tyler Cuma? You can't base the trade as a good move or bad move solely on the success or failure of the draft pick.
No, Gillies was not a good move. Trading a 2nd rounder to move up 1 spot in the 1st round is terrible value. Trading a 4th rounder to move up from the 3rd to the 2nd round to grab a coveted player, a player that has turned out not to disappoint at any level, was a good move. There are no two players, taken in the 3rd and 4th rounds, that you could package together, that I would trade Zucker for straight up right now.

Quote:
And it won't be the last because Matt Foy was a good example of how a good north/south player without the lateral game has a hard time scoring in the NHL.
Zucker has two attributes that will absolutely translate to the NHL level: speed and shooting. Right now that speed is more north/south, fine, that's how you put pressure on opposing D and draw penalties. He is a threat for a breakaway every second he is on the ice. Havlat was a good east/west player, Lord knows you crapped on him a lot too.

Quote:
A glorified Matt Foy is equivalent to Zucker's numbers. Maybe Wild fans have forgotten that Foy had a respectable freshman season at the college level before getting drafted as a 19 year-old. And then he twice had AHL seasons of around .8 PPG at an age a littler older than Zucker. "Blown out of the water"? Eh, I'm not seeing that in the stats.
Zucker's Freshman year: 23g 45p 1.125ppg .575gpg
Foy's Freshman year: 7g 24p .77ppg .225gpg

Zucker's rookie AHL season (IP): 12g 20p 1.05ppg .63gpg
Foy's rookie AHL season: 11g 24p .47ppg .22gpg

At every comparable level, it's not even close. You're using an age gap to compare their numbers, which is ludicrous when you're talking about developing players.

Quote:
Foy's break-out AHL season was at age 22, or about 20 months older than Zucker is now. We're splitting hairs to think that 20 months at that age will mean one will progress far above the other.
The difference between a 26 and 28 year old, you're right; the difference between 20 and 22, we are absolutely not splitting hairs. In terms of development, it's huge. It's the difference between Ryan McDonagh the AHL rookie and Ryan McDonagh the #1 D on an NHL team.


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 12-13-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 01:18 PM
  #718
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A lot more comments plus a defender and another person's view:

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I don't think so. I think Dumbas a guy a lot of the other players respect and are happy to go to war with. There's def a few others, but he's one of the best. He's a guy that can sense when momentum is going the other way, and then goes out there with a big hit to change it.


Sure Dumba hasn't had the greatest season or been good at camp(Really?) but who else will bring that physicial/big scoring touch ability?


Wow. Dumba was kept yet Pouliot was cut. I don't understand that one bit... but let's see what happens tomorrow. I guess Pouliot fell into the OFD category?


I think Dumba and Wotherspoon are more of the character number 7's


They're giving Dumba a chance, I'm pretty sure they want him in that position playing with Reinhart. He has one game to show he can adapt, he's shown it before and he has to show it now.


I think people need to calm down after today's game. One game isn't going to change my opinion of Subban, Dumba, or anyone really. The U of A players are an older bunch overall, so I wasn't expecting a win to be honest.


Two bad games now. But that's not the problem, it's how Dumba was exposed today. He was burnt to the outside several times and his back skating was downright brutal. He was also out of position most of the time and challenged forwards too aggressively when facing a rush. So it's not that he's having bad games, it's how bad his tools and toolbox look on big ice against this type of competition.


My faith in HC will be over if Dumba makes it over any of the D left or Pouliot even. His physical edge hasnt shown once in camp either and that was his one chance at making the squad.



Quote:
Sorry guys, but Im a season ticket holder in the same division as Dumba. Id wager Ive seen him play much more than both of you combined and especially live.

You can quote stuff youve read if you like, but if it says Dumba is a poor skater, whoever wrote it doesnt have a clue. Parroting it here doesnt change that, all it does is propagate ignorance.

If you know anything about the WHL, you will know that Rhett Rachinski can pick them up and put them down. Im wagering neither of you have seen him play either, although there is an outside chance you may have seen him at the memorial cup last year.

Today he had a clear breakaway, if you were watching and paying attention, and Dumba caught him from behind at the last second interfering with his stick and muffling a quality scoring chance, possibly saving a goal against.

Of all the other dmen in camp, I think only Morgan Rielly could have caught Rachinski from behind. Would you say Morgan Rielly is a poor skater? Because, sorry to say, that is pretty much what you are saying when you call Dumba a poor skater.

People reading that who watch the WHL and know what they are talking about are laughing at those statements right now. Im not kidding.

The defensive part of his game is what is weak. That includes getting caught out of position, or not reading plays well, not having proper position or maintaining gap control etc.

Ive seen Nik Lidstrom get burned to the outside. Does that mean he is a poor backwards skater?

Keep it up if you want, but Im telling you right now, people are laughing at the "Dumba is a poor skater" comments.


Quote:
I think Dumba has amazing forward speed but relatively his lateral and reverse mobility is not as fast.

Relative to most CHL players, he's very fast in all 4 ways.
Relative to his own forward speed, he's a tad slow laterally/reverse.
Relative to some of his blue line competition, he isn't as quick (as some) in reverse/lateral.

So really everyone could be right... in the right perspective.

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Old
12-13-2012, 01:18 PM
  #719
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He's getting another chance to play today, final cuts after the game, we'll see if he turns it around.

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12-13-2012, 01:22 PM
  #720
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He's getting another chance to play today, final cuts after the game, we'll see if he turns it around.
Who are they playing? I thought I saw in the thread that it was U of A? Who is that?

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12-13-2012, 01:31 PM
  #721
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CIS? No idea who that is. CAN up 2-0 so far but no word on Dumba's play.

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12-13-2012, 01:31 PM
  #722
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Who are they playing? I thought I saw in the thread that it was U of A? Who is that?
University of Alberta?

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #723
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Today's game so far:

Quote:
Dumba seems nervous or something. He's just completely lost in the defensive zone in these games. Before that 1st goal was scored, he had no clue which guy to mark which almost resulted in a great chance against.

He's a little bit more noticeable in other areas in this game, so at least there's that.


Dumba is either really on or really off, there's no in between with him.


Dumb penalty Dumba.


Nothing's going right for him. He finally tries to be more physical and gets a penalty.


What a chance for Dumba.


Great stick and positioning for Wotherspoon on the 5 on 3 that leads to a breakaway for Dumba.


Poor Dumba, nothing going right.

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12-13-2012, 02:10 PM
  #724
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Put a fork in him:

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That's not how you play defense Dumba, jesus.


That was probably the last straw for Dumba. Give him credit for going down in a blaze of glory by going for the gigantic open-ice hit (and missing)


Dumba is really hurting his chances. Even an average game and there was a good chance he beats out Corrado, but he's not having a good game. I've only noticed 2 defensemen this game, one for being good, the other for being bad, and the one that's bad is Dumba. He's fumbling with the puck, he's missing hits. I don't know what's wrong.



Lol at everyone feeling bad for Dumba.

Its not the end of the world for this guy. Like half the players who ever play for Team Canada, he'll have to wait for his 19 year old year.

He's going to get another crack.


Dumba is done. Puck rolls off his stick on a breakaway out of the box (nice pressure by backcheck)...huge miss trying to step up on a big hit in neutral zone, looks silly.

Sorry kid, maybe next year.

Even better, he's going to get cut likely in favor for a 5th round pick by Vancouver:

Quote:
What's wrong? He's cracking under the pressure (aka Frankie Corrado).

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12-13-2012, 02:14 PM
  #725
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Meh, better luck next year.

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