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Old
12-13-2012, 03:30 AM
  #51
Rutkowski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
I said put them back on the map like meaning other teams would like to see them and they would have a franchise player to market around which they don't. They would accept this trade
Yes because Doan is a huge marketing failure and Yandle, OEL, Smith or Bödker are nothing but chopped liver.

Tip; they're not and they're rather popular. They got plenty of players that could be marketed as franchise players already, Eberle wouldn't really change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
I would put money on it would be easier to market around Hall than OEL is what I am talking about when I said the back on the map comment.
I also do not think they trade would hurt your team at all.
How would the trade help?

Gagner had a 47-point year, only 4 more than Yandle who were kinda off at times during the season. He also don't have a defensive upside at all. Eberle provides a lot more points, yes, but he also shot at an abnormally high shooting percentage last season and it's a question if he'll be able to maintain it. However, his defensive upside is lacking as well.

So we gain a 3rd line scoring center, 2nd line on a bad team, and a 1st line winger if we lose our 1b line two-way center and our 1st pair defender and with Whitney gone, #1 PP player. Sure, Eberle will probably replace him there but then without a playmaker for him how efficient will he be?

Then there's the question of Gagner(most likely not) or Eberle will even fit in the Tippett system. It's not a fast, high-scoring system that they're used to and Eberle's main efficiency will be greatly reduced that way.

So yeah, Phoenix really only gain one really useable asset, one stopgap C and one draft pick that they don't really need right now because they're not in a rebuilding phase.

Who is in a rebuilding phase? Edmonton. Keep that draft pick and those two players because we don't need them in Phoenix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
It's much easier to market wins than losses. OEL helps us win more than Hall would.
Pretty much this. With Yandle and Hanzal gone I have a hard time seeing the Coyotes reach the playoffs in the next season and probably the one after that unless Eberle have a breakout 90+ point season, something the Coyotes system isn't very likely to provide.

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:47 AM
  #52
YotesFan47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Flyers
Nail Yakupov


To Coyotes
Jordan Eberle/Taylor Hall
Sam Gagner
2013 1st round pick



To Oilers
Keith Yandle
Martin Hanzal
Sean Couturier
Wayne Simmonds
In the spirit of a joke of a post I have a counter offer lol and to top it off this is going to be a HUGE trade.. Make that first rounder Hartikainen and a 2013 2nd for the Coyotes, then on top of that send the Flyers the 2013 1st. I'll vote for Hall to be the one that goes to the Yotes because I feel he'll have an easier time adjusting to our system. Flyers will send the Coyotes Read and we will send them a little defensive help in Summers plus a 2013 3rd rounder.. Just for kicks Ill send Phili Torres also.. Because I don't like him.. No one would really like this but it might even things out a bit and handle some of the team needs..

Philadelphia:
Yakupov
EDM 2013 1st
Summers
PHX 2013 3rd
Torres

Phoenix:
Hall
Gagner
Hartikainen
EDM 2013 2nd
Read

Edmonton:
Yandle
Hanzal
Couturier
Simmonds

Now that I have done this /endthread!

Edit:

Then I'd got to Boston and offer up Rundlblad, Chris Brown, and EDM's 2013 2nd for Paverley.

Boedker - Vermette - Hall
Read - Gagner - Vrbata
Sullivan - Paverley - Doan
Korpikoski - Gordon - Moss

OEL - Michalek
Stone/Gormley - Morris
Schlemko - Klesla

Not a bad lineup actually.


Last edited by YotesFan47: 12-13-2012 at 04:06 AM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 03:52 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Gagner had a 47-point year, only 4 more than Yandle who were kinda off at times during the season. He also don't have a defensive upside at all. Eberle provides a lot more points, yes, but he also shot at an abnormally high shooting percentage last season and it's a question if he'll be able to maintain it. However, his defensive upside is lacking as well.

So we gain a 3rd line scoring center, 2nd line on a bad team, and a 1st line winger if we lose our 1b line two-way center and our 1st pair defender and with Whitney gone, #1 PP player. Sure, Eberle will probably replace him there but then without a playmaker for him how efficient will he be?

Then there's the question of Gagner(most likely not) or Eberle will even fit in the Tippett system. It's not a fast, high-scoring system that they're used to and Eberle's main efficiency will be greatly reduced that way.
Ah yes, unsustainable shooting %. Trust me, us Oilers fans know all about that and this so called "high-scoring system that they're used to" was ranked 20th in the league. But don't let that prevent you from making stuff up!

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Old
12-13-2012, 04:27 AM
  #54
Rutkowski
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Ah yes, unsustainable shooting %. Trust me, us Oilers fans know all about that and this so called "high-scoring system that they're used to" was ranked 20th in the league. But don't let that prevent you from making stuff up!
Hey, it's not my fault Edmonton sucks at it!

My point still stands though, it's not the gritty style that Tippett use. Or are you seriously making the point that Edmonton and Phoenix use the same style of play?

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:42 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Hey, it's not my fault Edmonton sucks at it!

My point still stands though, it's not the gritty style that Tippett use. Or are you seriously making the point that Edmonton and Phoenix use the same style of play?
I hate the system argument. Most of the time a player can adjust to a system, or if the player is important enough, the coach can make adjustments for him. Pray tell, how did the gritty defensive stalwarts Whitney and Vrbata succeed so well in the system, but Gagner and Eberle /Hall would have no chance to thrive?

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:03 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
No. It's just OP.


Please, please, please stop making proposals. Every time I open a thread you've started, I don't think it can get worse... And then I open the next proposal and it does
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
He legit makes the worst proposals i have ever seen. This is terrible, you've outdone yourself this time "oilersfan"
i've never been convinced that oilersfan is actually an Oilers fan.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:09 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pravi83Oil View Post
I hate the system argument. Most of the time a player can adjust to a system, or if the player is important enough, the coach can make adjustments for him. Pray tell, how did the gritty defensive stalwarts Whitney and Vrbata succeed so well in the system, but Gagner and Eberle /Hall would have no chance to thrive?
because he's kinda seeing things with rose coloured glasses on.

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
  #58
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...and that's why you can't bring up stats as saying a player would be better. Now if you can compare Whitney and Vrbata to those Oiler forwards, but the discussion is if the Coyotes can thrive without Yandle and Hanzal, and I would say no. Hanzal means too much to the Coyotes ('system') and is a special player.

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:22 PM
  #59
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Pass!!!

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #60
Sojourn
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
I notice you didnt bold the "right now" part.


Also why is that so bad? Potential aside, yakupov has yet to play 1 game in the NHL so we do not know how good he will be.

We have already seen how good Couts is.

Again, right now, I'll take Couts
There seems to be a mentality by some that a 1st overall pick is > than everyone else. Whether they've played an NHL game or not.

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Old
12-13-2012, 03:52 PM
  #61
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Oilers get SCREWED

Coyotes laugh to the bank

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:44 PM
  #62
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Flyers pass

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:04 PM
  #63
monkeywrench
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Yes because Doan is a huge marketing failure and Yandle, OEL, Smith or Bödker are nothing but chopped liver.

Tip; they're not and they're rather popular. They got plenty of players that could be marketed as franchise players already, Eberle wouldn't really change that.


How would the trade help?

Gagner had a 47-point year, only 4 more than Yandle who were kinda off at times during the season. He also don't have a defensive upside at all. Eberle provides a lot more points, yes, but he also shot at an abnormally high shooting percentage last season and it's a question if he'll be able to maintain it. However, his defensive upside is lacking as well.

So we gain a 3rd line scoring center, 2nd line on a bad team, and a 1st line winger if we lose our 1b line two-way center and our 1st pair defender and with Whitney gone, #1 PP player. Sure, Eberle will probably replace him there but then without a playmaker for him how efficient will he be?

Then there's the question of Gagner(most likely not) or Eberle will even fit in the Tippett system. It's not a fast, high-scoring system that they're used to and Eberle's main efficiency will be greatly reduced that way.

So yeah, Phoenix really only gain one really useable asset, one stopgap C and one draft pick that they don't really need right now because they're not in a rebuilding phase.

Who is in a rebuilding phase? Edmonton. Keep that draft pick and those two players because we don't need them in Phoenix.


Pretty much this. With Yandle and Hanzal gone I have a hard time seeing the Coyotes reach the playoffs in the next season and probably the one after that unless Eberle have a breakout 90+ point season, something the Coyotes system isn't very likely to provide.
Please read what I wrote, becaused I said Hall not Eberle. Hall has the rockstar additude that no one on Phoenix has to market around. Your are also underrating Gagner and overrating Hanzal

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:05 PM
  #64
monkeywrench
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
There seems to be a mentality by some that a 1st overall pick is > than everyone else. Whether they've played an NHL game or not.
I would put a good chunk of money on that Yakupov that he has more value then Couts

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:15 PM
  #65
Chacal667
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
I would put a good chunk of money on that Yakupov that he has more value then Couts
Well that's not a question but you get wayne simmonds also

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
I would put a good chunk of money on that Yakupov that he has more value then Couts
Yakupov may have more value to the Oilers, but he wouldn't for the Flyers. Couturier is vital to the Flyer's success because of the division that they play in. He'll be expected to play against the likes of Crosby or Malkin, Tavares, Kovalchuk, and Richards for at least the next five to ten years. Giroux is their best player, but Couturier might end up being the most irreplaceable should they lose him. Yakupov is a great player and I'm sure he'll have a great career, but I'm not convinced the Flyers would make that move even if it was just straight up, let alone adding Simmonds.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Yakupov may have more value to the Oilers, but he wouldn't for the Flyers. Couturier is vital to the Flyer's success because of the division that they play in. He'll be expected to play against the likes of Crosby or Malkin, Tavares, Kovalchuk, and Richards for at least the next five to ten years. Giroux is their best player, but Couturier might end up being the most irreplaceable should they lose him. Yakupov is a great player and I'm sure he'll have a great career, but I'm not convinced the Flyers would make that move even if it was just straight up, let alone adding Simmonds.
Yakupov with Giroux could be devastating

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:41 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
I notice you didnt bold the "right now" part.


Also why is that so bad? Potential aside, yakupov has yet to play 1 game in the NHL so we do not know how good he will be.

We have already seen how good Couts is.

Again, right now, I'll take Couts
I am an Oiler fan . If i was given the choice i would take Couts over Yakupov . It would make us a more balance team . I do not think Yakupov will jump to the KHL ,but there is still the fact that Russian players are Moody and are hard to keep happy . They do not like playing a team game where the team comes first . They player for their selves ,points ,goals and so on . How many russian drop in front of a puck and come up spitting out teeth and keeps playing . Few and far between . Yakupov will put up points . He will also play very little Defence .

Centers>wingers . I would take a 30/30 center over a 40/40 winger unless a team is stacked at center . Couts could have gave RNH a run for first over all if he never got mono .

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:42 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Yakupov with Giroux could be devastating
And they would equally get destroyed going against Malkin or Crosby. This past season was the first time the Flyers had a legitimate defensive forward that stands a chance to defend them since they've entered the league. Again, it's about team needs. Yakupov would kill it with Giroux, but Couturier might be more valuable to the team.

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12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #70
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And they would equally get destroyed going against Malkin or Crosby. This past season was the first time the Flyers had a legitimate defensive forward that stands a chance to defend them since they've entered the league. Again, it's about team needs. Yakupov would kill it with Giroux, but Couturier might be more valuable to the team.
it's not like if the flyers were weak at center, you have brayden shenn, giroux, briere

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12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
  #71
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it's not like if the flyers were weak at center, you have brayden shenn, giroux, briere
And which of those guys have Couturier's skill set? That's what makes him so valuable to the Flyers. He should develop into a premier two way center going forward. That's invaluable to a team that is going to face the amount of elite forwards that are in the Atlantic.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:41 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
Please read what I wrote, becaused I said Hall not Eberle. Hall has the rockstar additude that no one on Phoenix has to market around. Your are also underrating Gagner and overrating Hanzal




If that's the case, Coyotes will keep their "overrated" player in Hanzal and the Oilers should keep their underrated Gagner because you'd be hard pressed to find many Coyotes fans who would be okay with swapping Hanzal for Gagner.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
[/B]


If that's the case, Coyotes will keep their "overrated" player in Hanzal and the Oilers should keep their underrated Gagner because you'd be hard pressed to find many Coyotes fans who would be okay with swapping Hanzal for Gagner.
Didn't say it was a straight up swap. I would not do that deal, but I personally think he is overrated and Gags is a bit underrated on these boards.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:35 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Rutkowski View Post
Hey, it's not my fault Edmonton sucks at it!

My point still stands though, it's not the gritty style that Tippett use. Or are you seriously making the point that Edmonton and Phoenix use the same style of play?
So you're telling me every single player on your team fits perfectly in Tippet's "gritty" system? *cough* Ray Whitney

I also suppose your team doesn't need offence either, considering they were led by a 39 year old who jumped ship to a division rival? *cough* Ray Whitney

Must have been his unsustainable shooting percentage that made him so easy to let go

In all honesty, I'm a huge fan of what Hanzal brings, but I would hunt down Tambo and give him a sulphuric acid enema if he pulled the trigger on this.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:26 AM
  #75
The Perfect Human*
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Looks brutal at first glance for the Oilers. Let's see what the lineup looks like after the deal:

Hall-RNH-______
Simmonds-Couturier-Hemsky
Smyth-Hanzal-Horcoff
Jones-Bergeron-Petrell

Yandle-N.Schultz
Smid-Petry
J.Schultz-Whitney

Honestly not a bad proposal for the Oilers. The only problem is we already have Belanger and Horcoff attending to the 3rd/4th line.

Hanzal/Couturier are a bit redundant here. Ideally we'd have both (2C Couturier, 3C Hanzal), but with Horcoff/Belanger both there it's not feasible.

Figuratively speaking I'd much rather work with a top-3 C set of RNH-Couturier-Hanzal with supports like Yandle and Simmonds heading forward than have the high-end offensive force we have (RNH-Hall-Yakupov-Eberle) and a 1st round pick.

That 1RW can easily be replaced by an average top-6 forward. Oilers would likely be a playoff contender at that point.

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