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Official Eskimos and CFL thread: Esks in camp

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12-12-2012, 06:16 PM
  #251
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Campbell in every way, shape, and form, was ready for the responsibility and was carefully groomed by an org on top of its game in every way. It was a seamless transition by an excellent org.

This? Who's been telling Hervey how to be a GM. Who's he been learning from? Are these silly questions I'm asking?

ps In fairness to me check through what I was responding to. The OTHER poster specifically mentioned Campbell. I wasn't cherry picking anything. Just responding.

How was Campbell groomed for the GM position any more than Hervey was? Up to the point of hiring/promoting him, he was a career coach after his playing days and nothing more. He didn't help scout players, sign players, etc. Of course, hindsight now tells us he turned into an excellent GM as well. But there was absolutely no way to know he would be heavily qualified for that job. Tillman came here with all kinds of experience on his resume, and 3 Grey Cups to boot. Other than his personal shenanigans, it's doubtful you could have found a more qualified, seasoned and successful individual for the job, at face value. I remember you telling me privately he wouldn't last inside of a year because of his personal issues. Turns out he beat those demons, but forgot how to run a football team. How did he turn out for us? Not sure why all the love for Tillman this past while. When he was first signed, you were completely against it, (and I still have the pm's from you to prove it, but their specific content shall remain confidential) and now, he was treated unfairly and isn't such a bad guy. Fact is, I was on board when he got hired, but he had his chance and blew it. Proof is in the pudding, in record, trades as well as how he is now regarded by nearly everyone in this organization and the disdain he has even in other centres.


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12-12-2012, 06:18 PM
  #252
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You and I both know he couldn't do nothing during the year to fix the Qb issue.

I do think Tillman would've had him on shorter leash. Tillman did what a lot of GM's do and that's let his coach, coach. I said earlier in the year I was okay with this, but if Tillman didn't watch he could be the one to pay for doing this.

Tillman was here for two and a half years. He took the team from 2-8 and finished the year with a 5-3 record and followed it up with 11 and 7 year. So ya I think he could've turned a 7-11 year into a better one next year.

Apparently he also let him GM to a degree as well. Tillman is the one that CREATED the quarterbacking issue, FFS. Letting an older but competent vet go, and replacing him with shyte.


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12-12-2012, 06:21 PM
  #253
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You and I both know he couldn't do nothing during the year to fix the Qb issue.

I do think Tillman would've had him on shorter leash. Tillman did what a lot of GM's do and that's let his coach, coach. I said earlier in the year I was okay with this, but if Tillman didn't watch he could be the one to pay for doing this.

Tillman was here for two and a half years. He took the team from 2-8 and finished the year with a 5-3 record and followed it up with 11 and 7 year. So ya I think he could've turned a 7-11 year into a better one next year.

According to a multitude of reports, Tillman abdicated many of his GM's duties and dumped them on Reed. You think that's a GOOD thing? And you actually want a guy like that in here next year?

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12-12-2012, 06:40 PM
  #254
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How was Campbell groomed for the GM position any more than Hervey was? Up to the point of hiring/promoting him, he was a career coach after his playing days and nothing more. He didn't help scout players, sign players, etc. Of course, hindsight now tells us he turned into an excellent GM as well. But there was absolutely no way to know he would be heavily qualified for that job. Tillman came here with all kinds of experience on his resume, and 3 Grey Cups to boot. Other than his personal shenanigans, it's doubtful you could have found a more qualified, seasoned and successful individual for the job, at face value. I remember you telling me privately he wouldn't last inside of a year because of his personal issues. Turns out he beat those demons, but forgot how to run a football team. How did he turn out for us? Not sure why all the love for Tillman this past while. When he was first signed, you were completely against it, (and I still have the pm's from you to prove it, but their specific content shall remain confidential) and now, he was treated unfairly and isn't such a bad guy. Fact is, I was on board when he got hired, but he had his chance and blew it. Proof is in the pudding, in record, trades as well as how he is now regarded by nearly everyone in this organization and the disdain he has even in other centres.
I didn't think Tillman would be able to get over his personal difficulties. I'm not a Tillman fan particularly. Your recollection is correct that I questioned whether he would be up to task. But he took over a 2-8 team and got that team turned around and then went 11-7 the following year so it looked like good progress. Funny thing is Tillman had a winning record here and two playoffs in 3 seasons. Much more than we'd seen in awhile. This season was a trainwreck due to injuries, ridiculously bad coaching, Ray trade, etc.

AS for the "proof" what Rhodes, Reed, or Hervey are saying has no bearing with me as they have vested interest in stating that. I don't take any of what they say as gospel.

I think if anything another view could be taken here is that Rhodes got hired on and possibly disliked Tillman from the start and Tillman wasn't his guy. I wonder as much if it was Tillman that was hamstrung by the org instead of the tune we're hearing. At least Tillman has had enough good grace not to badmouth them all like he's getting.

I don't respect, at all, how Reed , Rhodes, and Hervey have aired this laundry after the fact. Thats cowardice in action. If he was really the cause of all evil in the ego empire then where were these guys when they could've been confronting him or challenging status quo. Everybody laid down and let a whole season or more pass before doing anything about it. If Tillman was as bad as everybody is stating then everybody that sat idly by and let it all happen are culpable too. Certainly none of them showed leadership in duly dealing with the alleged situation in a timely manner.

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12-12-2012, 06:47 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by abootzky View Post
Campbell's predecessor Norm Kimball had no CFL playing, coaching or even scouting experience when he took over a struggling Esks franchise in 1965. He had worked his way up through the ranks of minor football to an administrative job with the Eskimos. Maybe that's why his club wasn't fully out of the woods until 1972 (the first year of the 34 season playoff streak).


For better or worse Hervey has worked under GM's Maciocia and Tillman as a scout. While they weren't specifically grooming him for their job (Why would they?), he got to observe how they run a team. He has also maintained an excellent relationship with well-respected Eskimo player personnel head Paul Jones (who had the title of GM late in the Campbell era even though Hugh was still doing much of the job). Hervey has said in interviews that he has regular conversations with Hugh Campbell and Don Matthews (who brought him here as a player as part of a rebuild in 1999)- 2 pretty good resources for CFL knowledge. Finally it's not outrageous to assume that Ed's picked up a lot of useful contacts and allies in his 13 years in the CFL- especially since retiring as a player and travelling around North America as a scout.

The last thing that reassures me somewhat about Ed Hervey is his stated reasoning for not getting into coaching. He has said that he doesn't have the right temperment to succeed at that job. Hervey doesn't seem like the type to accept a job that he isn't suited for or one that he doesn't think he's ready to do. Again, there are no guarantees here but I am comfortable at the moment with this hiring despite that.
This I can agree with. The one thing that stands out is Hervey going ballistic one game and throwing his helmet which ended up hitting a ref. He got a huge penatly for that and afairc tossed. I believe we lost the game. So he's right about his temperament.

I had not seen Hervey comment on contacts with Hugh Campbell and Don Matthews. Good if he did do that.

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12-12-2012, 10:12 PM
  #256
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This I can agree with. The one thing that stands out is Hervey going ballistic one game and throwing his helmet which ended up hitting a ref. He got a huge penatly for that and afairc tossed. I believe we lost the game. So he's right about his temperament.
Hervey was referring to his temperment, not his temper. He said he lacks the patience needed to teach young players things that came naturally to him when he played.


Quote:
I had not seen Hervey comment on contacts with Hugh Campbell and Don Matthews. Good if he did do that.
On Monday's Jason Gregor Show Hervey mentioned speaking with Campbell regularly since Hugh retired and he's had a longstanding positive relationship with Matthews.

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12-12-2012, 11:30 PM
  #257
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This I can agree with. The one thing that stands out is Hervey going ballistic one game and throwing his helmet which ended up hitting a ref. He got a huge penatly for that and afairc tossed. I believe we lost the game. So he's right about his temperament.
Are you referring to the A.J. Gass incident?

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12-13-2012, 12:36 AM
  #258
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Are you referring to the A.J. Gass incident?
I'm referring to the incident where Hervey threw his helmet in anger and it accidentally hit a ref. Not sure how thats confusing.

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12-13-2012, 02:22 AM
  #259
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Not getting the warm and fuzzies with Hervey as the new GM and his statement that he is extending Reed

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12-13-2012, 08:27 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
According to a multitude of reports, Tillman abdicated many of his GM's duties and dumped them on Reed. You think that's a GOOD thing? And you actually want a guy like that in here next year?
Blame Rhodes for that. He's the one that allowed the circus to go on all year. He could've very easily said in week 1 do your job or you are fired.

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12-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #261
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Cavillo will be returning for another year according to t$n.

MacPhearson is a free agent come Feb. Whether he wants to stay east, as a potential starter or backup is up to him.

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12-13-2012, 10:27 AM
  #262
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The Edmonton Eskimos have signed non-import kicker Grant Shaw to a new contract ahead of free agency.

It was Ed Hervey's first move since being introduced as the team's new GM earlier this week.

While terms of the deal were not disclosed, TSN's Dave Naylor reported his deal could be six figures.

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12-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
The Edmonton Eskimos have signed non-import kicker Grant Shaw to a new contract ahead of free agency.

It was Ed Hervey's first move since being introduced as the team's new GM earlier this week.

While terms of the deal were not disclosed, TSN's Dave Naylor reported his deal could be six figures.
is any kicker worth six figures? seems like kickers are a dime a dozen.

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12-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #264
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is any kicker worth six figures? seems like kickers are a dime a dozen.
Well I think we just learned that Hervey was paying attention to what Tillman thought about kickers.

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12-13-2012, 02:10 PM
  #265
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I'm pretty disappointed in this first move by Hervey. He's displaying a lot of confidence in a kid who missed a lot of important field goals last season and went on an 0-for run at one point.

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12-13-2012, 02:13 PM
  #266
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is any kicker worth six figures? seems like kickers are a dime a dozen.
Man for a 100k, he better be handling all of the kicking jobs.

David William Naylor ‏@TSNDaveNaylor
Hearing that Grant Shaw's deal with Edm makes him the CFL's only six-figure guy who only performs place-kicking duties.#cfl #Esks

Yeah he absolutely needs to do handle more duties.

This way we clear out some cap space with Dales and make this more better for us. Wonder if we keep McKnight around too.

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12-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #267
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The first sign noted that an absolutely green GM might not know what he's doing.

This is going to unfold to giving out generous contracts to the first people signed and then being surprised to find out that theres no capspace at the end of the rainbow to sign crucial players that will expect and command considerable coin.

This is why experience is important people.

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12-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
According to a multitude of reports, Tillman abdicated many of his GM's duties and dumped them on Reed. You think that's a GOOD thing? And you actually want a guy like that in here next year?
Tillman's reign here was a disaster, but don't believe everything you read either.

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12-13-2012, 03:30 PM
  #269
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The first sign noted that an absolutely green GM might not know what he's doing.

This is going to unfold to giving out generous contracts to the first people signed and then being surprised to find out that theres no capspace at the end of the rainbow to sign crucial players that will expect and command considerable coin.

This is why experience is important people.
I'm not an experienced GM and I would know this. What should be done is to compare like contracts for like players. Is $100,000 unusual for a kicker? I have no idea.

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12-13-2012, 03:57 PM
  #270
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Man for a 100k, he better be handling all of the kicking jobs.

David William Naylor ‏@TSNDaveNaylor
Hearing that Grant Shaw's deal with Edm makes him the CFL's only six-figure guy who only performs place-kicking duties.#cfl #Esks

Yeah he absolutely needs to do handle more duties.

This way we clear out some cap space with Dales and make this more better for us. Wonder if we keep McKnight around too.
Sounds like they want to keep Dales in the fold.

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12-13-2012, 04:08 PM
  #271
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I'm not an experienced GM and I would know this. What should be done is to compare like contracts for like players. Is $100,000 unusual for a kicker? I have no idea.

David William Naylor ‏@TSNDaveNaylor
Hearing that Grant Shaw's deal with Edm makes him the CFL's only six-figure guy who only performs place-kicking duties.#cfl #Esks


I'd say that's a yes.

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12-13-2012, 04:10 PM
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Sounds like they want to keep Dales in the fold.
Dales was one of the best punters until he got hurt. I can see why they would keep him around.

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12-13-2012, 04:23 PM
  #273
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I didn't think Tillman would be able to get over his personal difficulties. I'm not a Tillman fan particularly. Your recollection is correct that I questioned whether he would be up to task. But he took over a 2-8 team and got that team turned around and then went 11-7 the following year so it looked like good progress. Funny thing is Tillman had a winning record here and two playoffs in 3 seasons. Much more than we'd seen in awhile. This season was a trainwreck due to injuries, ridiculously bad coaching, Ray trade, etc.

AS for the "proof" what Rhodes, Reed, or Hervey are saying has no bearing with me as they have vested interest in stating that. I don't take any of what they say as gospel.

I think if anything another view could be taken here is that Rhodes got hired on and possibly disliked Tillman from the start and Tillman wasn't his guy. I wonder as much if it was Tillman that was hamstrung by the org instead of the tune we're hearing. At least Tillman has had enough good grace not to badmouth them all like he's getting.

I don't respect, at all, how Reed , Rhodes, and Hervey have aired this laundry after the fact. Thats cowardice in action. If he was really the cause of all evil in the ego empire then where were these guys when they could've been confronting him or challenging status quo. Everybody laid down and let a whole season or more pass before doing anything about it. If Tillman was as bad as everybody is stating then everybody that sat idly by and let it all happen are culpable too. Certainly none of them showed leadership in duly dealing with the alleged situation in a timely manner.
And therein lay a big part of the problem. Tillman is not around now to offer any comment at this time, just as he was never around during the season, forcing Reed to take some of his duties by absentia. If the guy would have spent half the time running the team properly during the season instead of constantly defending the Ray trade, it may have turned out better for him.

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12-13-2012, 04:26 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by abootzky View Post
Hervey was referring to his temperment, not his temper. He said he lacks the patience needed to teach young players things that came naturally to him when he played.



On Monday's Jason Gregor Show Hervey mentioned speaking with Campbell regularly since Hugh retired and he's had a longstanding positive relationship with Matthews.
Sounds like that's part of the grooming process to me.

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12-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  #275
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Blame Rhodes for that. He's the one that allowed the circus to go on all year. He could've very easily said in week 1 do your job or you are fired.
But Tillman was doing his job, at least on the surface. He traded RR Rhodes first week into the job and gave him every possible reason he could think of for doing it. As a new CEO coming in, you're not going to undermine your GM in your first week for God's sake, especially after the team went to the playoffs the year before. You let him do his job until you determine that it isn't happening. Tillman's demise didn't happen overnight. It was a series of events.

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